vindiboy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Have you seen this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Sorry picture won't load I will try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's hard to see from the picture what sort of adapter was being used but it looks as though there was an escape of gas which was ignited by the fridge burner. An expensive way of saving money... AndyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Vindiboy - That looks nasty. Excuse my ignorance but I assume 'free standing' means the normal Calor Gas type bottles and I didn't know that they could be refilled by anyone except Calor gas themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I assume it does not apply to a gaslow system properly installed!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Andy_C - 2009-10-16 1:59 PM It's hard to see from the picture what sort of adaptor was being used but it looks as though there was an escape of gas which was ignited by the fridge burner. An expensive way of saving money... AndyC and I doubt if the insurance will pay out either 8-) there has been chatter for a while about these valves that let you refill gas bottles. but they have no 80% cut ofI believe. I certainly wouldn't risk it until an "official" version came out......and thats unlikely considering the gas companies monopoly *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 A few years ago the early 'refillable' gas cylinders were just like Calor type bottles that could be removed from the locker and refilled at the side of the pump. Most, if not all, at the time didn't have 80% cutoff valves and some relied upon a see through side panel to judge the level of fill. If I remember right, many autogas refill stations refused then to let people fill them up at the pump - it is easy to see why now. This shouldn't affect a properly installed Gaslow system or bulk tank supply system. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It warns against using an adaptor attached to the nozzle. This seems to infer that an attempt was being made to fill a non-refillable bottle with the adaptor and not a 'made for the purpose' Gaslow type bottles as these do not require an adaptor being attached to the nozzle, instead, if an adaptor is needed, it is attached to the inlet filler which leads to the bottle. I assume (and hope!) the person doing the filling was unharmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hi I presume something like one of these was being used at the time of the accident! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-Propane-Autogas-Gas-red-bottle-filling-adapter-Valv_W0QQitemZ250513316640QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3a53c1db20 Regards Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I too received this info from Countrywide a while ago. Studying the photo it looks as if the gas was ignited from the fridge so took this as a warning and have since always made sure that before I fill my system I MAKE SURE THE FRIDGE IS OFF I don't have loose bottles but a Gaslow type system but there always seems to be a little gas escape after disconnecting, so best be on the safe side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 To my "trained" eye :D I'd say there are two possibilities: Option 1, the non user refillable was being refilled next to the motorhome whose fridge was running on gas, as the cylinder reaqched the full point a pressure relief valve in the adaptor vented liquified gas off which was ignited by the fridge burner resulting in the damage shown. Option 2, the non user refillable cylinder was filled using the adapter and was then connected to the vehicle's gas system. The cylinder was overfilled and when the system was turned on liquified gas was forced through the regulator and into the gas system, on lighting the fridge the liquified gas has been allowed to turn back to gaseous gas and has erupted from the fridge burner like a blow torch causing the damage shown. My money is on option 2 but either scenario is too dangerous to contemplate. PLEASE DO NOT USE ONE OF THESE ADAPTERS TO REFILL CYLINDERS NOT INSTALLED WITH AN 80% SHUTOFF VALVE, IT IS POTENTIALLY LETHAL TO YOU AND OTHERS AND HIGHLY ILLEGAL!!! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Also, surely people should NOT be driving onto Filling Station forecourts with their Fridges operating on GAS. The same consequence or greater could occur if petrol fumes were ignited. AND that could be as a result of actions by any other vehicle owner using the Filling Station. If anyone must operate their fridge on gas whilst driving they should stop prior to approaching the Pumps and switch off BUT IMHO it should be illegal for anyone to drive, whilst operating their Fridge on Gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Quite right John - that's why fridges should always have a 12v option, wired through a relay to the VEHICLE (not caravan) system, to enable them to function whilst driving. Gas should not be used for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 flicka - 2009-10-16 8:34 PM Also, surely people should NOT be driving onto Filling Station forecourts with their Fridges operating on GAS. The same consequence or greater could occur if petrol fumes were ignited. AND that could be as a result of actions by any other vehicle owner using the Filling Station. If anyone must operate their fridge on gas whilst driving they should stop prior to approaching the Pumps and switch off BUT IMHO it should be illegal for anyone to drive, whilst operating their Fridge on Gas. Well I do not drive when fridge is on gas because the fridge 'does its thing'. When driving it switches to 12v electric, however when I turn the engine of, at filling station, it switches over to gas. Surely if this was a problem the manufaturer would not make them work like this. Same with heating are you supposed to rush around switching everything off each time you fill up, cannot see many doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 AES fridges have a built in delay when switching from 12 volt to gas for exactly this reason. As I said before, I favour option 2 as the most likely cause of the problem. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Rupert, Surely the idea of running on 12volts whilst travelling is so that the gas supply valve is closed. Can you imagine what could happen in a collision if the gas was on? Not meant to come on heavy but this is serious stuff. Stuart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 bakersboy - 2009-10-17 2:48 PM Rupert, Surely the idea of running on 12volts whilst travelling is so that the gas supply valve is closed. Can you imagine what could happen in a collision if the gas was on? Not meant to come on heavy but this is serious stuff. Stuart. Look, I am not an expert on this but I must assume the people who make the boilers, fridges etc. are. The heating in my van is gas and electric, the heating manual quite clearly states that you can run the heating on gas while you are driving. Now as it happens I have never had to do this but they clearly say it can be done so I assume they know what they are talking about. If you know differant please tell me why you know something the manufacturer does not. I leave the gas on all the time, except when van is not in use and will continue to do so unless told from the makers direct not to. I would point out, before anyone gets the wrong idea, that I agree no one in their right mind would try and refill a gas bottle unless they have the right system to do so. To Dave Newell my fridge is Thetford and certainly no delay between switching from 12v electric to gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-10-17 3:44 PM bakersboy - 2009-10-17 2:48 PM Rupert, Surely the idea of running on 12volts whilst travelling is so that the gas supply valve is closed. Can you imagine what could happen in a collision if the gas was on? Not meant to come on heavy but this is serious stuff. Stuart. Look, I am not an expert on this but I must assume the people who make the boilers, fridges etc. are. The heating in my van is gas and electric, the heating manual quite clearly states that you can run the heating on gas while you are driving. Now as it happens I have never had to do this but they clearly say it can be done so I assume they know what they are talking about. If you know differant please tell me why you know something the manufacturer does not. I leave the gas on all the time, except when van is not in use and will continue to do so unless told from the makers direct not to. I would point out, before anyone gets the wrong idea, that I agree no one in their right mind would try and refill a gas bottle unless they have the right system to do so. To Dave Newell my fridge is Thetford and certainly no delay between switching from 12v electric to gas. Two points: a gas fed 'fridge has a naked flame when working, so is a potential source of ignition on filling station forecourts. Dometic AES fridges have, as Dave has said, a 15 minute delay after the ignition is turned off before the gas to the 'fridge is ignited. Since a naked flame is a naked flame whatever the make of the fridge, it is difficult to see why the Thetford versions should be different.Driving with the gas on at the bottle is illegal in several European countries, France included, with the exception of vans fitted with the Truma SecuMotion regulator, which has been specifically designed to isolate the gas supply from the cylinder in the event of collision. It appears to be legal to drive with the gas "live" in UK but, in the absence of a SecuMotion (Drive Safe in UK) regulator and appropriate pigtails, the added risk of fire in the event of a collision seems to me to suggest this practise may be unwise.That the heater manufacturer (presumably Truma) says it may be used in motion, reflects German practise and legality. It does not make it wise, or safe, to do so! Driving over a petrol spill on a filling station forecourt with the Truma heater going full blast might prove an interesting experience. I'll pay if I can watch! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Rupert123 I've just looked on the Thetford website and found this in the instruction manuals for Thetford fridges, it looks like your van should have a 15 minute delay on the gas once you stop the engine, but obviously doesn't in your case: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 QUOTE]rupert123 - 2009-10-17 3:44 PMLook, I am not an expert on this but I must assume the people who make the boilers, fridges etc. are. The heating in my van is gas and electric, the heating manual quite clearly states that you can run the heating on gas while you are driving. Now as it happens I have never had to do this but they clearly say it can be done so I assume they know what they are talking about. If you know differant please tell me why you know something the manufacturer does not. I leave the gas on all the time, except when van is not in use and will continue to do so unless told from the makers direct not to. I would point out, before anyone gets the wrong idea, that I agree no one in their right mind would try and refill a gas bottle unless they have the right system to do so. To Dave Newell my fridge is Thetford and certainly no delay between switching from 12v electric to gas. [quote}Two points: a gas fed 'fridge has a naked flame when working, so is a potential source of ignition on filling station forecourts. Dometic AES fridges have, as Dave has said, a 15 minute delay after the ignition is turned off before the gas to the 'fridge is ignited. Since a naked flame is a naked flame whatever the make of the fridge, it is difficult to see why the Thetford versions should be different.Driving with the gas on at the bottle is illegal in several European countries, France included, with the exception of vans fitted with the Truma SecuMotion regulator, which has been specifically designed to isolate the gas supply from the cylinder in the event of collision. It appears to be legal to drive with the gas "live" in UK but, in the absence of a SecuMotion (Drive Safe in UK) regulator and appropriate pigtails, the added risk of fire in the event of a collision seems to me to suggest this practise may be unwise.That the heater manufacturer (presumably Truma) says it may be used in motion, reflects German practise and legality. It does not make it wise, or safe, to do so! Driving over a petrol spill on a filling station forecourt with the Truma heater going full blast might prove an interesting experience. I'll pay if I can watch! :-)RupertStill IMO common sense should dictate otherwise. Don't believe everything written, especially when it has been translated from it's original tongue.Hope I am not the one following you on to a forecourt. BrianHaving witnessed the results of a Fuel Storage Tank ingition and 1st hand discussions with Refinery Firefighters involved in fighting the Buncefield explosions,a couple of years ago, I would not want to be anywhere in the vicinity. Flicka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 flicka - 2009-10-17 9:24 PM Brian Having witnessed the results of a Fuel Storage Tank ingition and 1st hand discussions with Refinery Firefighters involved in fighting the Buncefield explosions,a couple of years ago, I would not want to be anywhere in the vicinity. Flicka We felt and heard the explosion in East Bedfordshire! Friend who lives several miles from Buncefield had to have some rooftiles refitted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 As I said I am no expert. Mel pointed out the Thetford fridge does show a flame indicator when in fact it is not working, I was not aware of this and so assumed the switch over was immediate. Quite happy to be wrong about this. As I also said personally have never used gas heating while on the move and would probably not, just pointing out that you can. I still see no reason to close gas bottles off if you have the correct system, which I have, at least according to the makers. Some of you obviously have some very old systems and assume things have not moved on. Just read w2g post on similar subject, he to likes the thought of additional heating on the move. The system I have is the one he is talking about, fitted as original equipment by Swift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I rest my case. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 bakersboy - 2009-10-17 10:13 PM I rest my case. Stuart What case is that Stuart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody. Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 QUOTE ;Well I do not drive when fridge is on gas because the fridge 'does its thing'. When driving it switches to 12v electric, however when I turn the engine of, at filling station, it switches over to gas. Surely if this was a problem the manufaturer would not make them work like this. Same with heating are you supposed to rush around switching everything off each time you fill up, cannot see many doing this. Ive had AES fridges on a couple of vehicles and , i only had the gas turned on when on site , surely this is a safer practice than running around with the gas still on in which case this sort of thing would happen at petrol stations etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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