Poppy Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Anyone used it?Anyone got any views on it? Is it economical?We tend to use electric hookups a lot.My OH (who could make Andy Stothard look open handed and generous!) thinks waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Poppy If you intend to continue to use electric hook-ups a lot, then your OH is definitely right. Even if you plan to use hook-ups less in future and the present heating system fitted to your motorhome (it would be useful to know what you own) is effective and in good working order, then he's still right. In my view, the only reasonable excuse financially for retro-fitting a diesel-fuelled motorhome heating system would be if the original system were faulty and beyond economic repair, or the manner in which the motorhome were to be operated made the perceived 'autonomy' of diesel-fuelled heating so attractive that you had to have it. Installing even the cheapest diesel-fuelled blown-air heater would cost at least £1000 and fitting a 'full house' air + water system (eg. a Webasto Dual-Top or Eberspacher Combitronic appliance) would require a second mortgage. And that assumes, of course, that it would be physically practicable to replace the heating system your motorhome was originally designed to accommodate with one that it wasn't. And then you'd need space for the big batteries diesel-fuelled heaters need... And then there's the intrusive noise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks.It really is only that the Excel we liked has the webasto system.Pause for thought here I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Manufacturers tend to fit whatever is most cost effective and fits in the available space without too much regard for how the end user will use the van and judging by the inadequate (for prolonged off site use) leisure batteries usually fitted I can only assume that all vans are expediently designed for use mainly on a site with hook up these days because that seems to be how most of them are used anyway. In which case any van fitted with any form of dual source heating, as with most gas / mains electric and Eberspacher systems, it makes sense to use the site's electricity as you are probably going to have to pay for it anyway whether you use it or not? Does the Webasto have dual source heating or is it diesel only? It won't matter if it is diesel only and you otherwise like the van - assuming it can reverse OK - as they don't burn a lot of diesel - but you will need a lot of battery power or a mains hook up to feed it's voracious appetite for battery power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I would stick with Truma and the electric/gas version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 We have a Webasto system for spaceheating only. We almost invariably use sites with hook-up so power is not a problem. It certainly throws the heat out and we do not find it noisy once the chill is off the van and it seems to come off "boost" and slow down to a steady blow. It has a facility to set the timer to switch on which is nice if you are out all day, come into a lovely warm van. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Poppy, I used to drive a minibus with an erbspacher diesel heat fitted, it was brilliant. You could stand beside the vehicle and not hear the heater working. The inside of the bus was very comfortable, more often than not we used to have to turn the heater down. It often got left on over night by various drivers as they had forgotten it was on. When I saw that the Excel had the Wabasto system I thought great, nice and warm when travelling. It did not put us off ordering our Excel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 We have an Espacher Diesel space heater with the electric alternative. The diesel heater is very hot and quick, never found the so called noise a problem, it is certainly economical and warmer on the road with the ability to run whilst on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Poppy I had wrongly assumed that your OH's "waste of money" comment implied that you were considering installing a Webasto heating system in your present motorhome, when, in fact, you were considering replacing your present vehicle with a new motorhome fitted with a Webasto system. I note that MMM January 2009 included a report on an Auto-Trail Excel 600D (and Which Motorcaravan published Excel reports in 12/08 and 04/09). The MMM article said that the Webasto "DualTop" unit is used, but omitted to identify the model. There are three DualTops - RHA-100 (5.5kW maximum heat output - diesel fuel only), RHA-101 (6.5kW maximum heat output - diesel fuel and/or up to 1.0kW of 230V power), or RHA-102 (7.5kW maximum heat output - diesel fuel and/or up to 2.0kW of 230V power). The RHA-100 would really be unsuitable for a motorhome spending much of its stationary working life on a campsite 230V hook-up, while the RHA-101's low 230V heat output would make poor use of the 16A mains power supplies provided nowadays at most UK campsites. Consequently, I would guess that Auto-Trail uses the RHA-102, but it would definitely be worth confirming this is so. If one intends to operate a motorhome in 'caravan mode' much of the time, I believe it makes good sense for the vehicle to have a traditional 'caravan' heating system comprising a gas/230V convector air-heater (with blown-air option) and separate gas/230V water-boiler. This arrangement is simple, reliable, versatile, quiet, minimises 12V power consumption and, should servicing/repairs be needed, is well understood by motorhome and caravan dealers. Its downsides are that it can compromise/restrict a small motorcaravan's interior layout and its relatively low gas-only air-heating output may prove inadequate for a large motorhome. Although both my motorhomes have had combination air/water heaters, I would have preferred the 'caravan' heating set-up if the choice had been available. For me, the main attraction of the DualTop unit is not that it runs on diesel but that it is designed to be installed beneath the motorhome's floor, thus freeing up significant space within the vehicle's living area. (I assume Auto-Trail does stick the thing under the floor!!) My Webasto DualTop leaflet states that the appliance's maximum 12V power consumption is 90W (7.5A) and diesel-consumption from 0.19 litres per hour to 0.66 litres per hour (the latter at 5.5kW output). MMM's report stated that the Excel leisure-battery was 110Ah, which is probably OK in theory. However, much of the trouble with diesel-fuelled heaters in the past has resulted from installations where long, thin cabling between battery and heater has been employed, resulting in serious voltage-drop. Obviously, when a 230V hook-up is continuously recharging the battery, this shouldn't be an issue. I have seen an admittance by Webasto (in a recent French motor magazine) that there were problems with early DualTops, but these were said to have been fully resolved. It's worth bearing in mind that DualTops are quite rare and the majority of motorhome dealers won't be familiar with them: hence any repairs/servicing will probably have to be carried out by a Webasto agent. So, before deciding to buy an Excel, it would be sensible to check where the nearest Webasto agency is and, perhaps, have a word with them about their DualTop experience. As I suggested previously, if you continue to use campsite 230V hook-ups extensively, then I think a Webasto DualTop unit would not be the optimum heater for you as you won't be fully exploiting its design potential - you'd be better off with a Truma gas/mains convector 'fire' + gas/mains boiler. The cost of a DualTop system may well exceed that of a traditional Truma fire + boiler system (and thus might be considered a "waste of money") but, as you can't have an Excel without the DualTop, any extra expense is unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjp Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 We have the diesel heater in our panel van and find it very useful. Especially when the weather turns really cold. It boosts the temp up quiet quickly, Warming the toilet and shower cubicle up as well. We tend to use Electric heat when on hook up. We have used both on some occasions when the temp as dropped to below -3. I have estimated it burns around 1litre per hour on the highest setting….Noise yes on start up but within 2 mins quietens down once operating temp reached. It did come in handy last winter when hook up failed due to local power cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionablueinky Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hi We have the wesbasto heating in our trigano tribute and find it really good, it heats up really quick and to be able to have it on while driving is great as the van is nice and warm when we arrive on site. Another advantage is if you travel abroad, you dont have to worry about your gas cylinder running out and not being able to refill it. just cooking on gas means the bottle lasts a long time. Happy camping Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 It's perhaps worth emphasising that there is a variety of Webasto heating systems and the complex and very powerful DualTop combination air/water, diesel/230V appliance chosen by Auto-Trail for the Excel range differs radically from the simple, relatively low output, Webasto AirTop diesel-only blown-air unit fitted to Philjp's and Fiona's Tributes (that use a Truma gas-boiler for water heating). I'm rather surprised by Philjp's estimate of his heater's diesel consumption. For the 5.5kW output DualTop, Webasto quotes a consumption of 0.32 litres of diesel per hour (and 26W of 12V power per hour) during a EN-1646 test where a 'standard' vehicle's interior is maintained at a temperature of +20ºC with an exterior temperature of -15ºC. I'm pretty sure Tribute's AirTop heater has a 2kw maximum output, so I'd expect its diesel consumption to be proportionately less. I haven't got AirTop 2000 technical data to hand, but the maximum consumption of a 3.5kW output AirTop 3500 is given as 0.42 litres per hour. I would have guessed at an average usage of 1 litre per day for a Trigano Tribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thanks forall the information.Not really sure if it is for us or not.Shame as the Excel is such a lovely van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Poppy There are positive comments on Webasto's DualTop in the Danbury Family-4-related articles in MMM December 2008 and November 2009. Frankly, if I liked Auto-Trail's Excel as much as you seem to, the fact that it's got this particular heating system wouldn't dissuade me from buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 I really liked this van and the one with the end transverse bed and a decent lounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Poppy - 2009-10-26 4:45 PM I really liked this van and the one with the end transverse bed and a decent lounge. Hi Poppy, As the van is already fitted with this system I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why it would be a waste of money? We have the Webasto DualTop RHA-102 fitted in our van and are very pleased with it. We usually look for a hookup too and the system works very well on 230v for both space heating and water heating. Additionally it has the diesel capacity to very quickly warm up the van on arrival or if the weather is cold it can be used whilst travelling. As others have said, it's only noisy on diesel start up when you get a power boost proportionate to the temperature differential between your chosen temp. and the ambient temperature. I'd look on it as a bonus that this van has got such a comprehensive and useful piece of kit fitted to it. Take your fellow along and have the system demonstrated to you, I think he could be impressed. Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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