donastill Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Apologies if this subject has already been covered but can anyone tell me if it is possible to increase the payload of a motorhome? It is a 2004 Compass Avantgard 400RL on a Peugot Boxer. I WANT to take a 100kg scooter with me (+ rack & towbar I expect) when I go away but the payload won't let me. I DON'T WANT to tow a trailer or change the motorhome if possible. I'm sure this will be a piece of cake to some of you genii out there. All replies including: "You're having a laugh!": "Just throw an extra axle on there": "You can't.": "Simply replace the chassis or move the wheel thingies nearer the back." will be much appreciated. Thanks Desperate Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 depends on your chassis....But most (but not all) vans don't have the payload or more critically, rear axle capacity to take this kinda load so far back. Even if you get it upgraded by a specialist company like "SV Tech" (this can be a paper exercises, call them and they will let you know over the phone whats involved) The problem with this is, your payload may well be able to be increased from say 3500kg to 3850kg BUT I don't think they can do anything regards the rear axle so you may well still be stuffed. Some on here have managed to get it sorted...but its not the end of the world using a small bike trailer. Or do as we do and carry a pair of E Bikes! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donastill Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks for taking the time Judge - have digested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I have a small Swift with a 3300kg limit but still carry a scooter weighing 100kgs and have a 100kgs spare on rear axle. I make a point of never travelling with fresh water tank more than about 1/4 full though. I would have thought the upgrading was well worth investigating as if you can sort it out you will not regret it. Much better than bikes including electric ones which have limitations. Cannot agree with Eddie about a trailor of any kind, if you have to tow do the sensible thing buy a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 If you consider uprating bear in mind that there are various driving licence restrictions for anything over 3500kg, depending on your age or when you took your driving test. I carry a scooter on my Swift which is only rated at 3100kg, I had it weighed at a VOSA weighbridge station fully loaded and the back axle was on max and the front was below the recommended min. VOSA said it was ok but to make sure that everything was kept as far forward as possible. I have now been touring for over 60,000 miles and have had no problems. I checked with Michelin regarding correct tyre pressures and they advised that I reduce the front tyre pressures to around 45 psi to improve road holding, the rear are kept at 65 psi. BTW I have airrides fitted and when using the van with the scooter on the back I pump them up sufficiently to level the van. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I assume your van is one of these: CA 400RL In which case the basic stats are: MOTORHOME: Compass Avantgarde 400 PRICE: £24,795 BASED ON: Peugeot Boxer (290MWB) with 2.0-litre HDi Turbo-Diesel PAYLOAD: 600 kg MTPLM : 3200kg BERTHS: 4 WILL IT FIT ON YOUR DRIVEWAY?: Length 5.82m/ Width 2.2m/ Height 2.9m It will depend whether the chassis itself is of a sufficient type to allow the uprating - as I'm no expert I don't know if this is possible or not, or, as has already been mentioned, whether there would be sufficient payload on your rear axle which is where the weight would sit. You also need to bear in mind that placing the rack/scooter plus carrier/towbar etc so far back from the rear axle will add an even greater force to the rear axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi Donastill I don't want to sound negative, but payload aside, please consider:- a) Bike Racks normally only have a capacity of around 60kg, so the 100kg Scooter would exceed their capacity and possibly excert excess stress on the rear wall of your Motorhome. b) Tow Bars are designed for pulling weight, not carrying weight and I suspect a 100kg Scooter would severely test their design criteria. Most Tow Bars are designed for upto c85kg noseweight. c) Depending on the rear overhang of your Motorhome, the Scooter will exert well in excess of it's actual 100kg weight, due to the cantilever effect. If you use the search engine on this forum, I think Brian Kirby gave a formula for calculating the weight to Rear overhang effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I have a compass 115 although based on the x250 chassis. I have researched this for about six months now and my conclusion? No chance! Pay no attention to 90% of motorhome owners who hang a scooter off the back, it doesn't matter how it is attached - somewhere along the line something is beyond tolerance; usually the rear axle, probably the towbar and sometimes the max weight.... Get a trailer :-D If it helps get something from this guy http://www.ezetow.co.uk/ezetow%20scooter.htm Just re-read your question - You can upgrade your van's MTPLM and SVTECH will advise on exactly what is required. I needed Airride to increase the MTLPM by 200kgs and the rear axle by 100kgs but bear in mind Airride weighs 30kgs and a towbar weighs 40kgs so your looking at £350 for airride, £500 for a towbar & £250 to SVtech for the upgrade and we haven't bought the trailer yet.... and we're only 30kgs better off on the rear axle - Did I mention traile noseweight? 8-) 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donastill Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Many thanks to all respondents. I am taking a day off tomorrow to bang my head against a wall somewhere. A very helpful forum member, whose name now eludes me I am ashamed to say, spent a lot of time and effort proving conclusively to me that as things stand - having a towbar would send the payload beyond the law and common sense - never mind a scooter rack and scooter as well! The obvious solution seems to be to exchange the motorhome for one that can accomodate such appendages legally. I have two reasons for not wanting to do this: 1. I have invested a lot of time and effort making this one "dead whizzy" and me and the wise one (who isn't too keen on scooters anyway to be honest) have grown to appreciate it. 2. Like a recent forum member ( I read in MMM) we were hit by a bad hailstorm on L'Autoroute de Soleil (my whatsits!) just north of Lyon a couple of years ago and one side and the roof give the impression of a recent sojourn through Afghanistan. I tried for 18 months to get someone to repair the damage and then gave up. The golf-ball-sized dents do not impair the operation of the vehicle in anyway - just the appearance. However, this visible imperfection would, I fear impact severely on the part-ex value of the motorhome - would you buy one covered in dents? - so exchanging it would be an expensive option. I took my scooter test at the age of 61 and - full of enthusiasm - bought a scooter to expand our horizons; BEFORE I began to investigate the practicalities. Wasn't the first mistake I'd made and it won't be the last, I'm sure. Very disappointing! However I do wonder about the legality of all those motorhomes I pass with anything from a Vespa to a Harley swaying about on the back of them - don't you? Thanks again for all your time and trouble. Desperate Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 You see a lot of hail damaged vans on German sites, its probably not economical to repair them........a lot are Hymers. I would not have an aluminium skinned van they damage to easily, GRP much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hi I have been told on good authority that "Easylifter" are developing a version of their "Easylifter" with a swivel road wheel, the info was that a max of 60kg would be exerted on the towbar with a scooter on the rack, the rest being taken by the wheel or wheels. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 dwaviation - 2009-10-21 10:24 PM I have a compass 115 although based on the x250 chassis. I have researched this for about six months now and my conclusion? No chance! Pay no attention to 90% of motorhome owners who hang a scooter off the back, it doesn't matter how it is attached - somewhere along the line something is beyond tolerance; usually the rear axle, probably the towbar and sometimes the max weight.... Get a trailer :-D If it helps get something from this guy http://www.ezetow.co.uk/ezetow%20scooter.htm Just re-read your question - You can upgrade your van's MTPLM and SVTECH will advise on exactly what is required. I needed Airride to increase the MTLPM by 200kgs and the rear axle by 100kgs but bear in mind Airride weighs 30kgs and a towbar weighs 40kgs so your looking at £350 for airride, £500 for a towbar & £250 to SVtech for the upgrade and we haven't bought the trailer yet.... and we're only 30kgs better off on the rear axle - Did I mention traile noseweight? 8-) 8-) Sorry David but first part of your post is pure rubbish. How the hell do you know 90% have got it wrong and I resent you implying that I, among others, having carefully worked it all out and double checked everything have got it wrong. Nothing in my setup is beyond tolerance, in fact well inside also I was not aware that air suspension increased MTLPM. I would agree that you see a lot of 'dodgy' looking setups around but with a little research it can be done. You do, of course, need a van that is capable of carrying the weight but it is often the smaller vans with not to large a rear overhang that work best. As I have already said why would anyone bother to tow with a M/H, if you want to do this be sensible, buy a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Sorry old chap, didn't mean to offend - make that 89% :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yep done that, increased payload from 3500 t0 3850Kgs through sv tech who insisted on an air ride rear suspension. Able to do it as the combined axle allowance allowed it. I accept the small limtations on speed limit reduction but we have gained the ability to take all that we need for 5/6 months travelling. More than a reasonable trade off, go slower but with more wine on board. Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 dwaviation - 2009-10-22 1:39 PM Sorry old chap, didn't mean to offend - make that 89% :-D Fair enough seems much more reasonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's not just motorhomes that have a problem with payload and overloading ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 nice one Mel 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 That second photo has nothing to do with overloading, it was actually caused when a joyrider took a corner on the A12 too fast :D . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Not sure how to do attachments but I'll try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Strapping a large chunk of weight on to the rear end of a motorhome will never be a technically attractive proposition, even if the vehicle's driving characteristics apparently remain unaffected or overall/axle weight limits are not breached. There are a couple of products now being marketed in France that, to some extent, side-step this conundrum. A platform with one or two wheels (dependent on the load-carrying capability) is attached to the motorhome's rear at two points. Each wheel is fitted with a suspension-unit and can castor through 180º when the motorhome is reversed. The mono-wheel version can carry 200kg (eg. a fair size motorbike) and the two-wheel version 389kg (eg. a very heavy bike). Dimensions of the mono-wheel carrier are 1.32m (length), 1.54m (width) and 0.575m (platform height), with a weight of 90kg. Quoted prices are 2350€ or 3750€ for, respectively, the one-wheel or 2-wheel carrier. (More details in the "Nos produits" section of www.cladel.fr) The EZE TOW product suggested by rupert123 seems to embody similar principles, though I'm not sure that the wheels can castor to the same degree. (Although the French carriers were spawned by a motorhome owner's DIY efforts, I'm sure I remember a mono-wheel 'trailer' being marketed in the UK years ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 hi Phillman Looks like that donkey was underfed, need to beef him up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donastill Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Many thanks to all of you who have read, and contributed to, the above. I now have a couple of things to investigate. We are just about to leave for the final trip of the year to rural Staffordshire. The particular area we intend to visit will NOT, unfortunately, be further explored on my nice shiny scooter. It really does "do my head in" but we won't let it spoil the (ale) weekend. I will ponder further upon my return. Thanks again. Now off we go in our multi-dented, scooterless m'home! Don Astill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 donastill - 2009-10-23 1:20 PM Many thanks to all of you who have read, and contributed to, the above. I now have a couple of things to investigate. We are just about to leave for the final trip of the year to rural Staffordshire. The particular area we intend to visit will NOT, unfortunately, be further explored on my nice shiny scooter. It really does "do my head in" but we won't let it spoil the (ale) weekend. I will ponder further upon my return. Thanks again. Now off we go in our multi-dented, scooterless m'home! Don Astill Have you called SV Tech with your details yet? It is only in this country that motorhome parking is a real problem. If it turns out you cant carry the bike why not a cheap trailer just for the UK? I am sure you would forget it was on there *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 That's what we need. What a brilliant idea. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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