Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 If any of you Spain fans are liable to pass by the Logrono Carrefour (N42.47593 W2.39648) to buy fuel, be on your guards. The outlet is not run by Carrefour, but by E. S. Las Canas.I can't prove, but from the sequence of events am pretty certain, that my card was "skimmed" when I bought fuel there on 13 Oct. On 16 Oct a £30 O2 top up was bought over the phone on my card. I don't have a mobile, far less an O2 one, so it wasn't a senior moment!I remember that the payment kiosk was in full sun, and was surrounded by reflective glass, such that I couldn't clearly see what was happening inside, only the "ghost" of the person within. It was the only transaction where I lost sight of the card, so I'm pretty certain it must have been there. My next transactions were all in France, and all made after 16 Oct.In case you aren't aware - and I wasn't - if an unexplained "customer not present" transaction is made, the card (Nationwide) is put into a sort of limbo where, provided it is used via chip and pin it continues to function but, if it is again used via internet or phone, the block triggers.So, I only found out this morning, when I tried to make a purchase over the phone and the card was rejected.Now awaiting new card. What an irritating bore!! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Brian, what a pain, but it can and does happen everywhere, my brother had his 'skimmed' at a petrol station in Suffolk, he and I are now in the habit of giving the pay desk staff a good look over and if they look at all dodgy we go somewhere else, it's not as if petrol stations are hard to find and for me the inconvenience of driving ten miles to another pales into insignificance compared to all the hassle of canceling a card, waiting for a new one, not to mention the shock of finding a big payment that's not yours on the monthly statement. (Mt brothers card was used to buy a flight ticket to Malaysia!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 As I posted on 'chatterbox' it's about to get worse http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17588&posts=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 So what does [ My credit card was skimmed ]? mean. We hand our card over for the transaction and then what ? the person dealing with your card will have a copy of your details when you leave ,except your pin number ?? what happens then, and what can I do about it, I'm confused . :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I will always refuse to hand over my card, I will put it in the reader myself, enter the PIN and retrieve it myself. There is no need for the card to ever leave your possession. This has meant me having to, for instance, leave the vehicle and go into the payment booth or follow the waiter to the remote reader. I am not embarrassed doing this or in making the request. If anyone refuses then there is a reason for it, but no one has ever refused. If we all do this the few places that still ask for your card in their hand will get the message a lot quicker. If they really insist to avoid a scene give them a card that you know won't work, then they will have to let you use your proper card yourself or they won't get paid! Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 What it means is that, depending on the equipment used, the card numbers have been noted down, or more probably copied via one of the older mechanical swipe machines, together with the security code on the reverse of the card. In some cases the card is passed through a magnetic reader, or inserted into a chip reader capable of reading your pin when you enter it, if the machine is so arranged.The problem has been widely publicised, and the best defence is not to allow the card out of your sight when making a transaction, and to look carefully at any ATM you use for signs of stuck on supplementary readers.In my case I had already filled the van, so had to pay, and handed over that card before I realised I couldn't see into the cabin due to the silvered windows. I can't prove it was at this outlet that the numbers were skimmed, but it seems the most likely place.Having got the number, transactions can be made over the phone, or via internet, as the PIN is not needed for these. The more sophisticated fraudsters with access to the pin create counterfeit cards that work just like the original. The best defence, is to take care when using the card, and to pay close attention to the statements for transactions you do not recognise. Ain't much else you can do, but it is a bore when someone gets through, and your account is blocked pending issue of a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 The CEO from Barclaycard was on Radio 4 the other night saying that in 5 years credit cards will have disappeared and it will all be done on software inside a mobile phone and a till point receiver. They are testing the software now at a few outlets in the UK. He seemed confident that it would make it virtually impossible to "skim" money from this system. But he did add the rider that as soon as a new security system comes out the organised crime families put all their resources into cracking it, so we would all still have to be very careful with our personal security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 The present system was suposed to be fool proof, it took just days before card holders where losing money. The next system will proboly not last much longer, and if it's the mobile phone system will be even less secure as your details will proboly be picked up remotely whilst it's in your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I heard that within days of the new chip and pin coming out the gangs had cracked it with ways of getting around it :-S its big business. Whatever comes out its just a new challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyne Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I thought that I had heard the other day card fraud had reduced dramatically since the introduction of Chip and Pin. However the fly in the ointment is the internet where the majority of the fraud now happens on transactions without the card holder being present. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I recently had a fraudulent transaction on my card in US dollars, when investigated the card company obtained from the transaction information for me to check. The info had my name, card number & address correct, date of birth was 01/01/2009. Quite unbelievable even on a fully automated transaction it's not hard to set a date range or do they issue cards to babies in the USA. One of the current problems with all this fraud is the CC companies block your card when their computers see what they call an irregular patten I've had mine blocked 3 times this year, the last time was because I'd made a card not present transaction followed by a normal UK payment then a few hours later went to pay in a French Hypermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Recently had my card cloned, I know when it happened, and reported it as such to the fraud department of the card. Within 7 days they had purchased £4000 worth of items on the internet!!!! I only discovered this by accident. I got all the money back, but my point is get on line access to your credit card statement and check it as frequently as possible. I also reduced my credit limit to a level I am happy with not the level my card provider thought I was good for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Please disregard the reference to the Logrono Carrefour filling station in my original post above. It is now clear that was not the source, as the transaction was in Sterling and not Euros.Since I always keep the card in sight, and never make "customer not present" purchases by phone or internet from abroad, it now seems the fraudster must be in UK. That leaves a very limited number of transactions, the majority of which were secure (which I have been advised still remain secure) internet payments. That, in turn, leaves a very small number of card payments made by phone, one of which must point to the location of the fraudster. Since I try to be careful who I deal with in this way, it means one of the companies I have hitherto thought reliable has, or has had, an unreliable member of staff.That is doubly annoying, as I am unlikely to find out the fraudster's name, or where they are based, so even less likely to be able to find out if they are still employed by the same firm, meaning I can no longer rely on any of the firms I have previously trusted in this way.One useful piece of advice I gained, however, is if you have to make phone/internet transactions, always use a credit card, and never a debit card. It is apparently far easier to recover money taken by fraud from a credit card account, than from a bank account. You have been warned!! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Brian, It may not have happened when you used the card, could have been a suppliers or banks computer that had been hacked it happens more times than they like to admit. A few years ago I had some transactions in a Tokyo shop appear on one of my bank accounts as a debit card transaction, on the account in question I had never used the debit card so the information could only have come from the banks computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My stepson has just had £300 taken out of his bank account to BT ? He has not purchased anything from BT, does not have a mobile phone with them so this is obviously a fraudulant transaction. He has been on to the bank and is now waiting for forms to complete, which appear to have got lost in the post, or just still waiting to be found in the sorting office >:-( Since the original fraudulant transaction there was another attempt to take a similar amount, again payment to BT. The bank blocked the payment on this occasion. Strange thing is, this is a new account and a new card which he has not used at any retailers yet (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Similar thing happened to a friends son, he had never used his card and it was used fraudulatly, so I wonder how often it's an insider job at the bank! There are no figures availible as banks like to keep this sort of thing quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Brian, thanks for your reply, if as you say a £30 pound top up for o2 was purchased on your card, would it not be possible to trace someone through a telephone number for which the top up activation was made ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Waste of time. PAYG mobile phones do not require the purchaser to provide a name or address like those who pay for Networks on Standing Orders. They may trace the store to which the mobile phone was supplied but how would they know who they sold it to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I understood that all mobiles had to be registered now or they would be cut off by a certain date, anti terrorism act I understood, or am I wrong again ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdf Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I don't think this is a cloning issue. I had this problem last year also with a Nationwide card. I got one statement with 2 O2 top ups on it. When I rang I was told it often happened with O2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 vindiboy - 2009-11-03 9:40 PM Hi Brian, thanks for your reply, if as you say a £30 pound top up for o2 was purchased on your card, would it not be possible to trace someone through a telephone number for which the top up activation was made ??? I understand the card Co will recover the £30 from O2, leaving O2 to chase down the owner of the phone. Re registration, I believe you are right, and all mobiles now have to be registered to an owner. Of course, there is no guaranty that the fraudster gave a genuine address, his own address, or even owned the phone for which the top up was bought! However, I assume O2 will have cancelled both the SIM and any remaining credit, so at least the fraudster will have to start again from scratch. If they were really stupid, of course, they may even get caught - you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Brian I am really sorry to hear about the trouble you have experienced with your credit card. I am back home in England now and the first thing I will do is to check my card statements. Re registration: in France when you buy a SIM card you have to present yourself at an outlet with your passport and other identification otherwise the card is cut off quite soon. I had this trouble last year and even though I visited the Orange outlet I was still cut off despite the staff there assuring me that I would not be! I lost all credit on it, the shop had just put £10 on it after entering my passport details into the computer, and it took me months to get it into use again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I too had details from my card copied at a hotel in London and within hours online debits were made. When asking if I, myself, could insert my card in the machine at a shop in Keswick, and explaining why, I was told to go and shop elsewhere! I have scratched off the security code from the back of my cards so at least a "customer not present" transaction is more difficult (impossible?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 JohnD That sounds a fair idea to remove the rear number, its easy enough to remember 3 digits. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 All very worrying! So far not happened to me. I now only use a credit card when buying online or over the phone and only do that rarely. I have also reduced my credit limit to a very small amount so that nobody can get very much! One card company kept increasing my credit limit and it ended up at £9,000!! I went mad and phoned them immediately and told them to reduce it straight away and said how dare they keep increasing limits without my consent. Now I do have two cards, mainly because of the better exchange rate with Nationwide but also to have a back up incase one card gets stopped. When touring abroad I feel we need to have a credit card for emergencies eg breakdowns etc. But also if using a machine to pay for diesel I would not like to use a debit card. I had a terrible experience a couple of years ago when using my card for diesel at a pump. When I checked my account online I discovered some £500 or more had disappeared and the account was in debit! I quickly phoned the bank but as the diesel transaction wasn't showing on the screen I had to wait until after the week end to check again. Luckily for me I had the receipt for the diesel and the correct amount was on the receipt. I think a lorry had filled up before me and I felt Visa had tried to take that payment from ME! On the monday luckily my money was back in my account so guess Visa must have sussed something was wrong. But it nearly gave me a heart attack plus I had to quickly move money over from savings to the current account so that it wasn't in a debit state. I also use this account for holidays and is not the main current account. I also regularly check all accounts, current and credit card whilst I am away so that if there is a problem it is quickly picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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