Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen transmission defect (5)

[Mike88]

Brambles - 2010-02-11 1:23 PM

 

Mike88 - 2010-02-11 12:15 PM

 

Would it help if 16" wheels were fitted instaed of the usual 15" wheels. That would lower the ratio. Has anyone tried it?

 

Hi Mike, I think you mean the other way round (the reverse!).

15 inch wheels instead if 16 inch will in effect increase the ratio (or a lower gear as people seem to call it)

 

I'll take your word for it. The main point though was that altering the wheel size might have an effect but I guess its unlikely to make sufficient difference. It was just another thought I now wish I hadn't made. :-(

[WanderingAlbatross]

Is anyone able to comment about how efficient (or otherwise) Fiat customer relations are at replying to emails? I emailed them 10 days ago re. requesting the "fix" for my 2.3 X250 giving them full details. So far have had no reply of any kind-email, letter or phone call- to that one or a reminder email sent 4 days ago.

PS As a first time poster here but frequent "lurker" can I say thanks for all the useful info. I have picked up here from you all.

Doug

[gdf]

Never used the email route. I suggest you phone FIAT Camper Assistance, press the number you need for English then explain. I did this and was given a Reference Number via mobile phone almost immediately and a promise that they would contact me within 48 hrs. They didn't, of course, but I rang again but got somebody who arranged for the work to be done at the local agent whilst we were on the phone.

 

The work was done - FIAT have twice rung to see if it is OK but as I said I hadn't tried it out they are going to ring again later in the year. I have tried it but don't want to tempt fate by saying so. ;-)

[AndyStothert]

I think Derek is missing the point to some extent.

Ours (for instance) is a MWB van conversion and should, without doubt, be capable of being used on any public highway (without risk of mechnical damage) which it is legally allowed to be on.

It's a delivery van. Delivery vans need to get to awkward places up hills.

Our small delivery van has eaten both a clutch and a gearbox in these situations on the two occasions its been asked to do it. Once by Fiat themselves just in case my driving technique should be questioned.

Coachbuilt motorcaravans are no heavier than loaded commercial vehicles, and commercial vehicles shoud be capable of more abuse and heavier work than cars.

If Fiat (or Ford) sell the chassis as being capable of carrying a total weight of 4 or 5 tons then it should be capable of moving backwards in any situation we find ourselves in on a public highway.

 

 

[Rayjsj]

I find it very worrying that a 'Sevel' vehicle produced in September 2009 and WITH a revised gearbox is still showing these damaging 'Characteristics'.

I know that not EVERY vehicle ended up with the problem even from the begining, but many did. What kind of Engineers are they ??

I think that the way that Toyota are handling their problems should be a Blueprint that Fiat SHOULD have followed. Customers come FIRST.

Shareholders second. Ray

[Stuart]

I'm in full agreement with Ray re the Toyota approach. Interesting that the Japanese Establishment thinks Toyota has handled it badly!

 

Stuart

[Guest Tracker]

bakersboy - 2010-02-11 7:42 PM

 

I'm in full agreement with Ray re the Toyota approach. Interesting that the Japanese Establishment thinks Toyota has handled it badly!

 

Stuart

 

Talking to the local Toyota dealer manager today the reason for any delay from Toyota was down to the fact that they needed to evaluate just what parts were suspect before going off half cocked and getting the recalls wrong? Well that was his reasoning anyway and I would trust the integrity of Toyota above the integrity of Fiat any day!

[machinehead]

Tracker - 2010-02-11 8:02 PM

 

bakersboy - 2010-02-11 7:42 PM

 

I'm in full agreement with Ray re the Toyota approach. Interesting that the Japanese Establishment thinks Toyota has handled it badly!

 

Stuart

 

Talking to the local Toyota dealer manager today the reason for any delay from Toyota was down to the fact that they needed to evaluate just what parts were suspect before going off half cocked and getting the recalls wrong? Well that was his reasoning anyway and I would trust the integrity of Toyota above the integrity of Fiat any day!

 

As a Toyota AND a Fiat owner I say, AMEN to that.

 

I will would happily buy another Toyota but I will NEVER buy another Fiat - even if they are the best available at the time.

[jhorsf]

Rayjsj - 2010-02-11 7:32 PM

 

I find it very worrying that a 'Sevel' vehicle produced in September 2009 and WITH a revised gearbox is still showing these damaging 'Characteristics'.

I know that not EVERY vehicle ended up with the problem even from the begining, but many did. What kind of Engineers are they ??

I think that the way that Toyota are handling their problems should be a Blueprint that Fiat SHOULD have followed. Customers come FIRST.

Shareholders second. Ray

 

 

I doubt whether a lot of dead americans would agree with you if they could about toyota

[Colin Leake]

AndyStothert - 2010-02-10 10:44 PM

 

Disturbing News

 

I got a phone call from one of the converters last week to say that he had just got a a brand new 2.3 litre 6 speed Ducato in for conversion and that in his opinion it was as bad a judderer as he has yet experienced.

The bad news is that it was built in September 09, and is fitted with the very latest and modified gearbox.

This has been confirmed by the Fiat database.

 

It would be interesting to know what the converter did. Did he reject it or did he jsut go ahead and use it? Has this had any effect on his future plans with regard what chassis to use? How did he come to find the judder? Does he check all new Fiats?

 

 

[Rayjsj]

jhorsf - 2010-02-12 1:51 AM

 

i doubt whether a lot of dead americans would agree with you if they could about toyota

 

 

I wasn't talking about the seriousness of the fault, i was talking about the very public way that Toyota have aired this (these) problems and quickly Issued a Recall and arranged for the faults to be rectified, No-where have Fiat publically admitted to these faults, and there still isn't a 'proper' re-call, it's down to the Customer to pester them. Not the way to treat Customers. (unless of course you have a near monopoly, and don't give a stuff for your customers.)

I just wish that Toyota made a viable Motorhome base Vehicle, because i would buy one, if a coverter used it. (it's all about trust) Ray

[AndyStothert]

Colin's query about the converter is an interesting one as the small company in question no longer converts on Fiat base vehicles except the 3 litre auto unless the customer, after being made aware of the facts, buys the base vehicle themselves and contracts the converter to just do the conversion.

It isn't a very satisfactory state of affairs, but for a small business to get even one vehicle rejected and court proceedings instigated could be a severe blow - and Fiat certainly won't be protecting the small businesses like they will the large manufacturers.

[Guest Tracker]

Rayjsj - 2010-02-12 12:31 PM

I just wish that Toyota made a viable Motorhome base Vehicle, because i would buy one, if a coverter used it. (it's all about trust) Ray

 

And I second that one!

[rupert123]

Rayjsj - 2010-02-12 12:31 PM

 

jhorsf - 2010-02-12 1:51 AM

 

i doubt whether a lot of dead americans would agree with you if they could about toyota

 

 

I wasn't talking about the seriousness of the fault, i was talking about the very public way that Toyota have aired this (these) problems and quickly Issued a Recall and arranged for the faults to be rectified, No-where have Fiat publically admitted to these faults, and there still isn't a 'proper' re-call, it's down to the Customer to pester them. Not the way to treat Customers. (unless of course you have a near monopoly, and don't give a stuff for your customers.)

I just wish that Toyota made a viable Motorhome base Vehicle, because i would buy one, if a coverter used it. (it's all about trust) Ray

 

Totally differant things,Toyota's recent problems with brake,s were life threatening having a problem with reverse was not. Thousands of Toyota were affected and only a few hundred Fiats. In the Fiat case while it was irritating no one thought a recall was required. Agreed Fiat could have handled it better but given the choice I would go with the high reverse who the hell wants to buy from a manufacturer that sends out a car with faulty brakes. Buy from Toyota, fine if your happy for the brakes to fail on your van when half way up an Alp.

[Guest Tracker]

I am unaware of any brake faultv with Toyotas Rupert - wher did you see this please?

 

The press release from Miguel Fonsecs MD Toyota GB plc said, and I quote from our local paper -

 

Start quote

 

"Among the several million Toyotas sold across Europe in the last 5 years there has been a small number of reported cases of drivers experiencing a problem with sticking accelerator pedal.

 

There have been no reports of of any accidents or injuries occurring as a result of this problem in Europe including the UK.

 

People who drive affected models should be aware that this is not a problem that develops suddenly.

 

There are warning signs that your vehicle might have a problem such as the accelerator pedal becoming harder to depress or slow to return to closed. In some cases drivers might notice a a rough or chattering feeling when depressing the accelerator pedal.

 

In the rare event that drivers notice the pedal slow to return, hard to depress or unsmooth they should contact their nearest Toyota dealership."

 

End quote

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and I wonder how many amongst us have had bowden cable or rod operated throttle jam open in the past?

 

The Toyota throttle is a fly by wire type (it may even be a form of rheostat but I am not sure?) and is connected electronically to the fuel injection system.

 

In use it is very light - a bit too light for my taste - but nevertheless it is extremely smooth and very sensitive in use.

 

Without belittling the problem in any way I do appreciate that not everyone has the awareness that most of us have when driving but surely to heaven if the accelerator pedal plays up you would either do something about it or at least tell someone?

 

As for the unfortunate american - we will never know but if he had time to make an emergency call he surely had time to take action to stop the car - unless - being cynical - he wanted it to crash and for the reason to be on record so that he could claim compensation? I'm not saying he did as we will never know but it does make you wonder?

 

Anyway I for one will go on buying Toyotas for years to come as many other makers have shied away from equally damaging faults over the years.

 

 

[AliB]

Tracker - 2010-02-12 4:18 PM

 

I am unaware of any brake faultv with Toyotas Rupert - wher did you see this please?

 

 

 

It is in every newspaper and every news programme.

 

eg

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article7018630.ece

 

[Mike Chapman]

Hello Tracker,

 

The brake faults are on the Prius model and seem to be associated with the software on the traction control/ABS system.

 

There have been two recalls one on several models concerned with Sticking Throttle the other Brakes on the Prius.

 

Regards,

 

Mike.

[Guest Tracker]

Sorry! I forgot about the Prius! Nevertheless my faith in Toyota remains!

[jhorsf]

Toyota insists that reported braking problems with the Prius are a “phenomenon” rather than a “defect”.

 

 

does this sound familiar rather like" a characteristic of the vehicle " and the only reason they have had to do something is people have DIED!

 

 

Toyotas have been told that their cars may have problems which lawyers in the US claim have led to 19 deaths.

[Colin Leake]

Tracker - 2010-02-12 4:18 PM

 

I am unaware of any brake faultv with Toyotas Rupert - wher did you see this please?

 

The press release from Miguel Fonsecs MD Toyota GB plc said, and I quote from our local paper -

 

Start quote

 

"Among the several million Toyotas sold across Europe in the last 5 years there has been a small number of reported cases of drivers experiencing a problem with sticking accelerator pedal.

 

There have been no reports of of any accidents or injuries occurring as a result of this problem in Europe including the UK.

 

People who drive affected models should be aware that this is not a problem that develops suddenly.

 

There are warning signs that your vehicle might have a problem such as the accelerator pedal becoming harder to depress or slow to return to closed. In some cases drivers might notice a a rough or chattering feeling when depressing the accelerator pedal.

 

In the rare event that drivers notice the pedal slow to return, hard to depress or unsmooth they should contact their nearest Toyota dealership."

 

End quote

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and I wonder how many amongst us have had bowden cable or rod operated throttle jam open in the past?

 

The Toyota throttle is a fly by wire type (it may even be a form of rheostat but I am not sure?) and is connected electronically to the fuel injection system.

 

In use it is very light - a bit too light for my taste - but nevertheless it is extremely smooth and very sensitive in use.

 

Without belittling the problem in any way I do appreciate that not everyone has the awareness that most of us have when driving but surely to heaven if the accelerator pedal plays up you would either do something about it or at least tell someone?

 

As for the unfortunate american - we will never know but if he had time to make an emergency call he surely had time to take action to stop the car - unless - being cynical - he wanted it to crash and for the reason to be on record so that he could claim compensation? I'm not saying he did as we will never know but it does make you wonder?

 

Anyway I for one will go on buying Toyotas for years to come as many other makers have shied away from equally damaging faults over the years.

 

We just changed our Avensis for a new Prius and got a discount we would never have got before the problem. Mind you if when I collect it the breaks fail on my drive and I crash into our motorhome I'm going to be pig sick!

 

[Mike88]

There is a post from ron on the Murvi Morello thread that claims the Comfortmatic judders. I have asked for further details but it seems to me that his post should be added here as it seems more relevant to this useful thread.

[jhorsf]

Mike88 - 2010-02-12 7:00 PM

 

There is a post from ron on the Murvi Morello thread that claims the Comfortmatic judders. I have asked for further details but it seems to me that his post should be added here as it seems more relevant to this useful thread.[/quote

 

 

he first said they all judder

he then said shudder

then said some of them shudder

he seems very unlucky to me to drive comfortmatics in the numbers he implies and they all or some or? shudder judder

how many has he driven with a problem?

or does he know a friend whose uncle works with a woman whose husband knows someone who drinks in the pub where he goes who heard itin the bar one night

[colinfrier]

Re Andy's post 10/02 if current production is now the same as the full mods to earlier models then we shuld not be suprised that some vehicles will still be a problem. Some but certainly not all are happy with there mods.

In view of the transmission short comings why did FIAT not produce a new gearbox and eliminate all of the problems this saga looks set to continue?

What will they do for folk that still have a problem on new production vehicles?

I for one found an improvement after stage 2 mods but it still not as it should be. :'(

[moyne]

May I take the conversation back two years when I purchased a new motorhome and was looking forward to using it as often as I had my previous vehicle. I have almost 30 years of driving of HGV's with no incidents I would regard myself as a reasonable good driver. So I cannot blame me for my vehicle that shakes violently and burns in reverse. Anyway, I bought a Fiat 3 Litre new and two weeks after buying it I took it back to the dealer saying this thing shakes and burns the clutch in reverse. Now I don't want to be disrespectfull to anyone who has a vehicle that does not shake or burn, but my interest is in my problem and those of you that have the same problem. Two years after buying the vehicle Fiat decide to take a look at the problem which consisted wholly of a guy taking a short test run. (Yippie). Now I have spent 85k on a large piece of tin which an independent engineer says is one of the worst cases of deteriotion due to vibration he has ever seen.

 

So lets get to the point here a manufacturer makes something which they have admitted has a problem ( I have that much in writing) and to solve that problem they do nothing for two years. Is anyone getting the point that Fiat couldn't give a damn about me and my vehicle or the fact that I have a vehicle which is becoming worthless.

 

So really all I want to know is how we can get Fiat to compensate and all the other eggits for buying a vehicle which for me has been a total disaster !

 

I am taking action and hopefully my action will have the same effect as all those clients who were told my their Toyota dealers they were imagining that their cars would not slow down.

 

Keep the bad press rolling !

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Gerard

If you were in UK, I would say the person who sold you the van is the one who is liable to put it right.  Since this seems to be pretty much in line with European directives etc, I assume much the same would be true in Ireland?

I also assume that the Fiat guarantee is interpreted in broadly the same way under Irish law, which is to say you have a (rather theoretical in UK) right to bring a case against the guarantor where he refuses to comply with his own guarantee?  I say rather theoretical because, according to the advice I have been given, the guarantee is to be interpreted exactly as it is worded.  Nothing more than it says, and nothing less, is covered, and as the guarantee doesn't actually say the vehicle is to be capable of reversing up hills without violent vibration, it isn't covered if Fiat decides it isn't, and it seems they more or less have - if you see what I mean!

The good news is that it may be possible to bring a joint case with others experiencing similar problems.  The bad news in UK, is that this is not possible, although it is under consideration.  If introduced, one option would be for the case to be brought on behalf of consumers by a government agency, but the consumers would then have to persuade the agency that the case was worthwhile.  Since the legislation is presently only at the consultation stage, and as an election is imminent, I somehow doubt it will ever see daylight!  The UK government is very pro business, and not very pro consumer!

However, if the Irish government is more pro consumer, and has already introduced joint action legislation in some form, could this be an option for you - or have you the only shuddering Fiat in Ireland?