Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen transmission defect (5)

[rupert123]

moyne - 2010-02-27 8:53 PM

 

May I say this my previous van was a mercedes and in the under three years that I owned it I put 58k killometers on it. Ok I do get out more than most but if one leaves the North of Ireland and drives through the Uk to mid way down Spain and then up through france, Switzerland and Holland Belgium back thorugh Scotland one tends to run up the miles or kilometers. The currrent van is indeed a contradiction in that my usual 6 weeks in Europes per year means that in the current van I was not able nor willing to risk some of my usual routes.

 

I do use it, but nowhere that there is a danger of having to reverse it up hill. So given the time frame of ownership of the current vehicle I have driven almost 25k less in this can than the last and not by choice. I am not retired and work hard for my time off and would like to use my van during this time.

 

For me this meant at christmas 2009 not driving to Switzerland as we normally would do and staying in a hotel for 10 days a bit of a bummer for me wife and kids.

 

 

OK Gerald I will declare a truce, hope you get your van fixed.

[rupert123]

Steve928 - 2010-02-27 8:31 PM

 

This thread has become a joke.

 

Well maybe but at least it is still running. On MHF which is a far bigger forum it has died, that is what you want I assume.

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

This months mmm on test marquis dorset es quote(sadly,there was still some VIBRATION from the transmission inreverse) peugot is working on it!

baz

[bazooka]

oops

[bobalobs]

And yet in the March Caravan Club magazine they test the Autotrail Frontier Savannah on the 2.3 Fiat 40 Maxi and 7.6 metre long and state

"Our standarduphill reversing test at tickover speed was accomplished with no problems and the long distance comfort of the Ducato cab is now legendary."

With such conflicting accounts no wonder so many of us remain confused !

[emmbeedee]

I went to the NEC show last Thursday. On the Eldiss stand I was inside an Autoquest (100bhp engine) with a salesman, when another prospective customer came in & asked a few questions. One question was whether it was worth having the upgrade to the 130bhp engine. The salesman replied that he wouldn't recommend it because that would involve having the six speed gearbox as well "& that was the one with the problem". The customer asked whether this was the clutch judder problem & the salesman said yes. To say I was amazed would be a considerable understatement (!)

This is the first time I have heard a salesman say anything like this, previous responses have included:

1. Never heard of the problem.

2. Have heard of the problem, but it only affects people who can't drive properly.

3. Have heard of it, but it only affects a very very very very small proportion of the vehicles.

Etc., etc., etc.

So full marks for honesty to the salesman (from Prestatyn Caravans). :-D :-D :-D

[nowtelse2do]

emmbeedee - 2010-02-28 9:19 PM I went to the NEC show last Thursday. On the Eldiss stand I was inside an Autoquest (100bhp engine) with a salesman, when another prospective customer came in & asked a few questions. One question was whether it was worth having the upgrade to the 130bhp engine. The salesman replied that he wouldn't recommend it because that would involve having the six speed gearbox as well "& that was the one with the problem". The customer asked whether this was the clutch judder problem & the salesman said yes. To say I was amazed would be a considerable understatement (!) This is the first time I have heard a salesman say anything like this, previous responses have included: 1. Never heard of the problem. 2. Have heard of the problem, but it only affects people who can't drive properly. 3. Have heard of it, but it only affects a very very very very small proportion of the vehicles. Etc., etc., etc. So full marks for honesty to the salesman (from Prestatyn Caravans). :-D :-D :-D

I hope this salesman still has his job tomorrow.

Dave.

[nowtelse2do]

double post

[Mike88]

I've copied the text below from the Ford v Fiat thread. It is more relevant here as this thread is tracking problems with Fiat transmissions. If true then perhaps we are seeing the beginning of problems with the Comfortmatic but I am unconvinced. For that reason I've asked for further details.

 

Here it is:

 

A poster wrote:

 

"Don't assume the 3l auto will be the answer to judder problems. There are fewer about so less problems get reported. We met one chap who burnt the clutch out and was told by Fiat it was his driving. They were somewhat sheepish when he pointed out is was one of their autos.

 

I have also heard of a second driver who has had problems with the 3l auto.

 

Logical realy when you think about it as it is the same gear box with the same ratios but operated automatically."

 

 

 

 

[jhorsf]

Mike88 - 2010-02-28 11:18 PM

 

I've copied the text below from the Ford v Fiat thread. It is more relevant here as this thread is tracking problems with Fiat transmissions. If true then perhaps we are seeing the beginning of problems with the Comfortmatic but I am unconvinced. For that reason I've asked for further details.

 

Here it is:

 

A poster wrote:

 

"Don't assume the 3l auto will be the answer to judder problems. There are fewer about so less problems get reported. We met one chap who burnt the clutch out and was told by Fiat it was his driving. They were somewhat sheepish when he pointed out is was one of their autos.

 

I have also heard of a second driver who has had problems with the 3l auto.

 

Logical realy when you think about it as it is the same gear box with the same ratios but operated automatically."

 

 

 

 

 

now you have read this you also have HEARD of problems with the comfortmatic does this make what you have heard true?

[Mike88]

You will see from my post that I have asked for further details as I'm sceptical.

 

I don't accept the problem exists with the Comfortmatic because any stories I've heard are not from people who themselves have experienced a problem. But as this thread is about Fiat transmission issues its a matter worth exploring. As a Comfortmatic owner (shortly) I want to know if there is an inherent fault likely to emerge.

[weldted]

I hope there is no problems with the Comformatic I have just ordered the Bessacar 765p with the 160/ comformatic upgrade?? Having been assured by the Fiat Rep?? at the NEC. All the enquiries I have made including talking to owners of comfomatic units is all to the good, admmitedly there are not a lot about!!

[rolandrat]

You have been ASSURED by the Fiat rep? It would take a great deal more to assure me, their reputation leaves much to be desired since Juddergate was highlighted and it still hasn't been admitted yet.

[AndyStothert]

From all the sources where I've been drawing information from (including the forums, letters to some magazines, clubs, Italian owners and even some from Fiat) I know of only one failed clutch on the 3 litre comfortmatic and this was replaced under warranty by Fiat without any arguing.

I have to admit that I've not been chasing up any of these sources just lately (except the forums and emails sent to me by owners) but surely if there had been a significant number of these failures in the motorcaravan world then the news would have reached us by now?

The contributor who pointed out this thread has become something of joke has got a point if there are people (idiots?) still popping upon here with comments to the effect that if they don't have to reverse up steep hills then they consider their vehicle not to be affected by the fault.

And others who have not grasped the concept of soldarity or compassion for others. The 'I will have my say regardless' (of whether it may harm other people's chances of a resolution) brigade.

The forums have been just one small part of dragging Fiat to a position where they even considered developing the modifications for the 2.3 litre models, but quite an important one.

There are still unresolved matters affecting the 3 litre vans and informing potential buyers of unmodified 2.3 lire vans about the consequences of buying one from the kind of owner who can't see the point of having it done because they don't reverse anywhere. No matter what the next owner may wish to do.

Right if you want any information or help most of you know my email address, and its easy to find if you don't, but as from now I'm not driving myself any crazier reading some of the idiotic comments on here.

I'm quite crazy enough already.

A heartfelt thanks go to everyone who has helped us this far.

[Colin Leake]

Mike88 - 2010-03-01 8:37 AM

 

You will see from my post that I have asked for further details as I'm sceptical.

 

I don't accept the problem exists with the Comfortmatic because any stories I've heard are not from people who themselves have experienced a problem. But as this thread is about Fiat transmission issues its a matter worth exploring. As a Comfortmatic owner (shortly) I want to know if there is an inherent fault likely to emerge.

 

I posted that information and can confirm that it came to me first hand on site from the owner of the motorhome with the problem and related directly to his motorhome. I see no reason why he slould not be telling the truth. It may or may not have been an isolated insidence I have no way of knowing. Fiat did replace the clutch under warrenty having first tried to get out of it by blaiming the driver.

[GypsyTom]

AndyStothert - 2010-03-01 9:38 AM  The contributor who pointed out this thread has become something of joke has got a point if there are people (idiots?) still popping upon here with comments to the effect that if they don't have to reverse up steep hills then they consider their vehicle not to be affected by the fault.

I hope that this comment isn't aimed at me as this is what I wrote:

As for 'white elephants' clogging up forecourts, I don't believe it. There is actually a shortage of good second hand motorhomes at present owing to people hanging on to their existing ones much longer during this recession.

This reversing problem seems to be affecting a tiny minority and thousands of people are happily driving their Fiats without a problem and let's face it, how often do you have to reverse up a steep hill?

Please don't think I'm denigrating those who do have this problem, it obviously exists and is affecting some, but hundreds of white elephants and dealers going bust, I don't think so!

It should be clear to anyone (except perhaps an idiot) that I was challenging the view that the Fiat problem is going to result in thousands of unsaleable motorhomes, dealers going bust and Armageddon for the entire industry.

As I say in the final paragraph, this problem exists but there is no doubt that it obviously isn't affecting the majority of motorhomers who appear to be trading in older models and buying new ones in their thousands.

That is not to say though that I have anything but support for those who have the problem, but hundreds of unsold motorhomes littering dealers' forecourts, I don't think so!

[Porky]

AndyStothert - 2010-03-01 9:38 AM

 

From all the sources where I've been drawing information from (including the forums, letters to some magazines, clubs, Italian owners and even some from Fiat) I know of only one failed clutch on the 3 litre comfortmatic and this was replaced under warranty by Fiat without any arguing.

but as from now I'm not driving myself any crazier reading some of the idiotic comments on here.

I'm quite crazy enough already.

A heartfelt thanks go to everyone who has helped us this far.

 

Thank you for yet again bringing common sense based on knowledge to this thread. As a very satisfied owner of an Autotrail Tracker EKS with the 3l comfortmatic I have nothing but praise for the vehicle and it's handling. There is more `scaremongering`on another thread about Portugal becoming a no go area, and sometimes I wonder if ignorance is indeed bliss, and finding out for oneself with all the risks that involves may not be such a bad way*-)

In this day and age of instant communication anything incorrect is accepted as gospel because it is there in black and white, and because it is written with the gloss of apparant plausibilty it becomes accepted and passed on as fact. Just look at all the garbage on the social networks.

Andy thanks for all your time and effort, I for one hope that you can go and enjoy your fells and lakes and keep producing those wonderful photos(lol)

 

Roy Fuller

[euroserv]

In response to the contributor(s) with nothing better to do than cause trouble...

 

I do not profess to be an expert in any particular area, and I do not own a camper van. I do run a fleet of Fiat and Iveco vehicles and was asked by a couple of our camper service customers if I would look at the forum and contribute where I could. I check on here every day to see what I can do to help.

 

Where I see that a thread is specifically set up to offer help and support for people that have a problem I obviously get very miffed if certain people keep popping up with the sole aim of discrediting those people and repeatedly trying to convince anyone that is reading the thread that the other people are imagining it.

 

I have said previously that there are a number of persistent faults with my Fiat vans, one of which is that the clutch falls apart before it wears out in most cases but this is at 70,000 to 130,000 miles so it is not that relevant to this thread. This thread is about people with problems with their campers and I appreciate that the use of that type of vehicle is somewhat different to our panel vans, so I make comment only when I think it is relevant and helpful.

 

I have, over the last 12 years run around 180 Fiat vans from new to at least 130,000 miles and have continued to service most of the ones that we have sold to well over 200,000 miles so in fact I do consider myself a bit of an expert when it comes to these vehicles, and while I am unaware of your credentials I suspect that makes me more of an expert than you are.

 

I, for one am at a complete loss as to why you believe that your one penneth is at all relevant to the title of this thread, but that is not a request for your explanation.

 

I will be here for as long as folks seem to need my assistance, and will help to fight the opression of opinion if need be.

 

My own opinion is that there is a problem with potentially every X250 van out there. New or used. The facts are that there has been some help for 2.2 and 2.3 vehicles for those customers who have asked for it during their warranty period but as yet no help at all for 3.0 owners. Everyone is entitled to know this because it is an irrefutable fact.

 

There is a strong possibility that if you buy a New or used 3.0 X250 or a used 2.2 or 2.3 that has not been modified you could be facing considerable costs for repairs in the future due to an overly high reverse gear that has been proven to cause clutch failure and even gearbox failure while reversing up anything from a modest to steep gradient, and even if you don't damage the vehicle you will be reversing at a speed that may not be acceptable to you.

 

This does not seem to affect every single vehicle but with modern production techniques ensuring minimal variation between finished vehicles you have to expect that potentially anyone could be affected.

 

There can be no arguing with that, so please don't bother.

 

If you are new to this thread, please take some time to study the submissions from some months ago when many owners were experiencing the problems and were in many cases getting some help from Fiat (Peugeot as well) but if you look back 12 months you would find that very few people got any help at all, and what help they did get was if anything only a slight improvement, sometimes making the judder worse.

 

Things for most owners are undoubtedly better now, but some are still being told that there is nothing wrong with their vehicle, and that is not good enough.

 

If you want to know more, because you either have a problem or want to avoid one, please feel free to tell us all about it. There is always someone around that will be helpful and courteous and some of the others too, but you will figure that out for yourself!

 

Nick

[euroserv]

And sometimes you unwittingly post several times!

[rolandrat]

Well said Nick.