Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen transmission defect (5)

[spospe]

Toyota have admitted that there is a problem and are fixing it. My wife's Yaris was done two weeks ago at a time and a place that suited us. It was 100% OK before the fix and is 100% OK now after it (and they valeted the car)

 

Fiat are still in denial.

[moyne]

rupert123 - 2010-03-07 6:49 PM

 

Agree Moyne Fiat not like Toyota, a vibration in reverse does not have the potential to kill people. Faulty steering, brakes and accelerator do. Fiat have not had to close all their plants in the USA down and Toyota only started to recall AFTER court cases in the USA were bought. It is easy to assume, when you personally have a problem, that manufacturer is the only one in denial, not true I am afraid they are all the same. Recent problems with BMW wheels another example, they are still saying their is not a problem. Why do you not bring your court case instead of just talking about it then if you win others will benefit and fiat will have to do the work required.

 

ah !the old presumption once again as you can appreciate sir/Madam it takes time to get hearing before a Judge and of course considering your presumtion is that I have not filed a case. To be honest it's actually none of your business whether I do or I do not, but noting your concern I will say this much notice of intention has been served on the parties involved.

 

This notice of intent has yet to be responded to which is perhaps a recognition of denial, but we shall see. In Ireland it can take a number of years to have a matter brought before the courts.

So I am aware talk is cheap but I just love a bit of banter !

 

You are correct in that it is a pity in a forum which relates to the difficulty with Fiat that one is not allowed to express ones opinion without castigation. However I am bewildered that for reasons known only unto yourself you appear to support 100% the company whom I and many others have difficulty with. Why would anyone want to follow a thread that has neither interest to you or concerns you. There have to be better things in life. Flower arranging perhaps!

 

 

 

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, Just a thought, Can anyone tell me location of Sevel factory, address, post code, satnav info. How far would it be from Austrian border?

 

wonder what they would say if one arrived on their doorstep with a problem van, and demanded to see the boss. Anyone know the relevant (polite) language in Italian.

 

Any one tried it yet?

 

Second point, everyone refers to Fiat, (or Peugeot) but shouldnt the problem eventaully be resolved by Sevel (or indeed the bloke/factory who made the gearbox? Could that be in China somewhere?. Who in the ultimate is responsible?. are Fiat (Peugeot) hiding behind badge engineering.

 

Thirdly, has any one been able to CONFIRM that current production has a modified reverse ratio, and therefore CONFIRM that the problem is DEFINITELY solved. furthermore, IF there is now a gearbox with modified ratios, that DEFINITELY solves the problem, HOW MUCH do they cost, and What is relevant part numbers for each type of van engine combination.

Will the replacement box be totally COMPATIBLE, and therefore purchaseable albeit at cost.

 

Answers on a postcard please !!!

 

tonyg3nwl

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

The factory that you seek is at Val Di Sangro in Italy, but the gearboxes are made somewhere else probably.

 

Concentrating on the 2.3, there are various gearboxes listed for the many variants of the Ducato chassis, and most have been superceded to new part numbers but they are all about the same price. A new box will be about £3500 plus vat and a 'reconditioned' one for the same part number is about £1450 plus vat and ironically you will almost certainly get a brand new one. The old part numbers have been superceded with the new ones so you actually cannot buy an 'old' type box any more.

 

This, however is where things get really strange...

 

On my parts disc I can see all of the new part numbers and search any chassis number built up to December 2009 to find out which box went into it originally, but if I look into the box to find out how they are different there are no replaced parts. This means that at least for now, the contents of the updated boxes are something of a mystery.

 

The reports regarding the latest box are somewhat limited and what there are are not very encouraging so I would say that until it is known what they have done inside the boxes and whether they really are any improvement folks would be best to hold fire.

 

Nick

[foxy45]

I've got a Sunseeker 115 with the 2.2 Peugeot engine, 5 speed box. I had the supposed cure a few weeks ago and was told it was now OK. A quick test told me this wasn't the case so I complained again and got the visit from the Peugeot expert.

 

I then got a phone call to say he'd tested and he couldn't find anything wrong with it. I got him to do a test drive with me present and, sure enough, it reversed making the hell of a racket. I said, 'so what's that then?' He said it wasn't a judder but a 'resonance'!

 

Could this be where we are all going wrong? Not that it makes any difference - it's still unacceptable and is bound to knacker the clutch some time soon.

 

I was also told there are no revisions or new gear boxes on the drawing board so I imagine current production is just as bad.

 

Are there any legal eagles out there who think we might be able to band together to take some sort of action. It's fairly obvious we won't get anywhere as individuals?

 

No more Peugeots for me I'm afraid.

[moyne]

Aha, a resonance ! Wonder was he reading this post as this is the wording I have used several times. Of course as an Engineer he or she should have known that a resonance can be devasting to all other parts of your van and will destroy seals on panels and joints etc.

 

Unfortunately the system in the UK and Ireland does not allow for joint action, but we can continue to make noise as that can resonate also !

 

Keep the thread going as this is also very important for my action to recover the cost of my vehicle. Get an independent motor engineer to give a mechanical report on your vehicle this will cost about £ 400 but well worth it. I have had my vehicle independently tested twice and on both occasions it was reported as having inrepairable damage due to violent resonance (judder) in reverse in even the slightest incline !

 

 

[tonyg3nwl]

foxy45 - 2010-03-08 4:06 PM

 

I then got a phone call to say he'd tested and he couldn't find anything wrong with it. I got him to do a test drive with me present and, sure enough, it reversed making the hell of a racket. I said, 'so what's that then?' He said it wasn't a judder but a 'resonance'!

 

.

 

I had the man from coventry test drive mine as well, and he told me that the van was experiencing "torque vibration" and that I must use above 1300 rpm when reversing (with clutch fully engaged, not slipping).

 

He demonstrated that the vibration disappeared above the declared revs, and the van disappeared at a high rate of knots backwards up the hill. I can only say that it was a very good job that the road was clear behind as I am sure that such a manouver if attempted during a driving test would certainly result in a failure. I should add that at the time of testing, the van was unloaded ( no water or personal posessions on board)

 

Whether they call it "judder", "resonance", or "torque vibration" makes no difference, it NEEDS TO BE FIXED. MESSRS PEUGEOT and FIAT ,Stop taking the ***s, get your act together and SORT THE PROBLEMS.

 

tonyg3nwl

 

 

[dshague]

bump

[Rayjsj]

Trying to Reverse a large Vehicle at 1300prm uphill without slipping the clutch is asking for serious trouble (but I suppose a Pedestrian being flattened isn't covered on Fiats warranty either, along with the Clutch so they are in the clear financially both ways !!) What is so bloody difficult in putting in a Reverse gear ratio that is significantly lower than first gear ??

It isn't Rocket Science and has been done successfully since the Internal combustion engine first coughed into life. Can anyone explain why not ?

*-) Ray

ps Response on this Thread is getting very slow and 'Clunky' again.

[foxy45]

Yes,

 

And I haven't even worked out what 'bump' means in the previous reply.

 

Can anyone enlighten me?

[Geoff Tuckley]

First time on this thread but I have taken my van today to have a "Technical Assessment" by the FIAT Dealership.

My van is a 2.2 diesel multijet. Since 2008 when it was new I have been on to FIAT again and again like most of you. All that happened is that every time I phoned they gave me a new reference no. In October last I received a letter from FIAT saying that although THERE IS NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE 2.2, I was to take it to my local FIAT dealership who would test it out for the judder. Did this and went out in the van with a mechanic who had been schooled by FIAT to say that the revs must be kept really high and there would be no problem. He said this tongue in cheek. We agreed that there is a judder and that slipping the clutch for any distance or going like hell in reverse is not the answer. The agents said they would report the case to FIAT that day and are sympathetic to my case. Lovely, now we might get somewhere.

No such luck! Phoned FIAT last week to tell them we are back from winter break so the van is available at any time for them to repair. They sent me a reply asking me to take the van back to the agents for a "Technical Assessment". Took it this morning and was asked to leave it and return for it tomorrow. When I enquired as to what the assessment consisted of I was told it is just the same as last time.

The agency is sympathetic and I suppose it makes work for them but neither of us seem to be able to get any forward movement from FIAT.

A local builder has just had his 2.2 van done and is really pleased with the result.

 

I suppose I am just another frustrated FIAT customer but it is disapointing when having bought a van for our retirement it does not measure up to the basic standards you would expect from any new vehicle.

 

 

 

[Geoff Tuckley]

First time on this thread but I have taken my van today to have a "Technical Assessment" by the FIAT Dealership.

My van is a 2.2 diesel multijet. Since 2008 when it was new I have been on to FIAT again and again like most of you. All that happened is that every time I phoned they gave me a new reference no. In October last I received a letter from FIAT saying that although THERE IS NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE 2.2, I was to take it to my local FIAT dealership who would test it out for the judder. Did this and went out in the van with a mechanic who had been schooled by FIAT to say that the revs must be kept really high and there would be no problem. He said this tongue in cheek. We agreed that there is a judder and that slipping the clutch for any distance or going like hell in reverse is not the answer. The agents said they would report the case to FIAT that day and are sympathetic to my case. Lovely, now we might get somewhere.

No such luck! Phoned FIAT last week to tell them we are back from winter break so the van is available at any time for them to repair. They sent me a reply asking me to take the van back to the agents for a "Technical Assessment". Took it this morning and was asked to leave it and return for it tomorrow. When I enquired as to what the assessment consisted of I was told it is just the same as last time.

The agency is sympathetic and I suppose it makes work for them but neither of us seem to be able to get any forward movement from FIAT.

A local builder has just had his 2.2 van done and is really pleased with the result.

 

I suppose I am just another frustrated FIAT customer but it is disapointing when having bought a van for our retirement it does not measure up to the basic standards you would expect from any new vehicle.

 

 

 

[Geoff Tuckley]

First time on this thread but I have taken my van today to have a "Technical Assessment" by the FIAT Dealership.

My van is a 2.2 diesel multijet. Since 2008 when it was new I have been on to FIAT again and again like most of you. All that happened is that every time I phoned they gave me a new reference no. In October last I received a letter from FIAT saying that although THERE IS NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE 2.2, I was to take it to my local FIAT dealership who would test it out for the judder. Did this and went out in the van with a mechanic who had been schooled by FIAT to say that the revs must be kept really high and there would be no problem. He said this tongue in cheek. We agreed that there is a judder and that slipping the clutch for any distance or going like hell in reverse is not the answer. The agents said they would report the case to FIAT that day and are sympathetic to my case. Lovely, now we might get somewhere.

No such luck! Phoned FIAT last week to tell them we are back from winter break so the van is available at any time for them to repair. They sent me a reply asking me to take the van back to the agents for a "Technical Assessment". Took it this morning and was asked to leave it and return for it tomorrow. When I enquired as to what the assessment consisted of I was told it is just the same as last time.

The agency is sympathetic and I suppose it makes work for them but neither of us seem to be able to get any forward movement from FIAT.

A local builder has just had his 2.2 van done and is really pleased with the result.

 

I suppose I am just another frustrated FIAT customer but it is disapointing when having bought a van for our retirement it does not measure up to the basic standards you would expect from any new vehicle.

 

 

 

[mike 202]

Bump - just means that you post something on a thread and that takes it (Bumps it) to the top of the page.

 

So as not to cause confusion the word Bump is posted.

[Rayjsj]

Folks ! please wait a while when you post, don't hit post again, or you get multiple posts.

Bump ! Sends this post to the top of the list.

FIAT can't Build gearboxes for toffee ! let alone reversing.

bump ! :D

[dshague]

Geoff Tuckley - 2010-03-11 2:26 PM First time on this thread but I have taken my van today to have a "Technical Assessment" by the FIAT Dealership. My van is a 2.2 diesel multijet. Since 2008 when it was new I have been on to FIAT again and again like most of you. All that happened is that every time I phoned they gave me a new reference no. In October last I received a letter from FIAT saying that although THERE IS NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE 2.2, I was to take it to my local FIAT dealership who would test it out for the judder. Did this and went out in the van with a mechanic who had been schooled by FIAT to say that the revs must be kept really high and there would be no problem. He said this tongue in cheek. We agreed that there is a judder and that slipping the clutch for any distance or going like hell in reverse is not the answer. The agents said they would report the case to FIAT that day and are sympathetic to my case. Lovely, now we might get somewhere. No such luck! Phoned FIAT last week to tell them we are back from winter break so the van is available at any time for them to repair. They sent me a reply asking me to take the van back to the agents for a "Technical Assessment". Took it this morning and was asked to leave it and return for it tomorrow. When I enquired as to what the assessment consisted of I was told it is just the same as last time. The agency is sympathetic and I suppose it makes work for them but neither of us seem to be able to get any forward movement from FIAT. A local builder has just had his 2.2 van done and is really pleased with the result. I suppose I am just another frustrated FIAT customer but it is disapointing when having bought a van for our retirement it does not measure up to the basic standards you would expect from any new vehicle.

you said a local builder had is 2.2 fixed .is it a five or six speed box. when i had the 2.2 five speed fiat it did not get fixed .but my 2.3 fiat as been fixed.

[Geoff Tuckley]

Sorry about the multiple posts Rayisi, call it a lesson learned.

Don't know if the builders van is five or six speed, mine is five.

I am still trusting that FIAT will sort the van out but I sometimes get a little frustrated. Love driving the vehicle and it does all I ask of it, if only this judder was sorted. I suppose selling my favourite boat to buy a new motorhome for retirement feels somewhat of a letdown when the van is banging its way up some slope or on gravel, or I am slipping the clutch in reverse and wondering how much the inevitable new clutch will eventually cost me.

 

[Brambles]

Geoff, this is going to sound like a daft question, but what tyre pressures have you got in the front tyres? Do not read anything into this, I am just working on a theory at the moment. You mentioned gravel, and I Know some people have complained on grass as well and I am wondering if tyre slip might also be an issue when the judder starts.

[peter chapman]

We (wife and myself) went to the motorhome show the other week where Fiat professional had a couple of cabs on display. I was hoping I might be able to pick a pair of mud flaps up. We have a 2.3litre 130 multijet Bessacar E425 bought new last August. Unfortunately they had no accessories or even anything on the stand really but I got talking to one of the representatives on there anyway. Told him how much we liked the engine but that we did have a slight problem with judder when reversing on grass or trying to reverse onto the levelling blocks.

 

No problem says he, let's fill out a few details name address etc and all he put on the report form was "reverse judder". This form wont go back till the end of the week he said then you should hear from Fiat customer services. OK I said and left it at that. Tuesday afternoon this week the phone rang Jenny answered it and said hang on; passing the phone to me saying, it's Fiat.

 

Conversation as follows but perhaps not word for word, I am from Fiat customer services I am calling about your motorhome. OK I said - after ascertaining that it had four wheels (I guess he didn't know or couldn't remember tag axles lol) - he asked me how bad was the judder. I said I don't want to exaggerate it - really I can reverse it on tarmac without the judder showing up at all, I reverse it out of the drive whenever we go out in it, but that it almost always juddered whenever we reversed it on grass or tried to reverse it onto the levelling blocks.

 

OK he said then without hesitation, where is your nearest dealer? I told him, he checked to make sure they had the expertise/capacity/premises and then his response was we will order the full upgrade and send it to them, they will get in touch with you with regard to fitting it. Oh by the way he said when was the vehicle registered to you so that we can update our warranty records, I told him. He asked if I could send him a copy of the V5 as they had it registered by Swift in 2008 I duly scanned it and sent it by email to Fiat customer services as requested.

 

So for my part at this point in time I have to say that I have no complaints with regard to Fiat service at all, and also wish to express my gratitude to Andy Stothert for all his hard work in regard to this issue.

 

I would mention that prior to this I had had cause to get a spare part from said garage last year and whilst there had gone to their Customer Services desk and mentioned the judder. The Manager very belligerently informed me that they would decide whether it had a judder or not - not me. Oh I said how will you decide that? We will reverse it out there he said on the forecourt (nice new tarmac smooth as a biiliard table) oh I said it wont do it there will you try it on grass where it does it? No was the reply. I asked for Fiat customer services telephone number and left the building!!!

[The Decorator]

Report him to FIAT for non co-operation.

[moyne]

The story with Fiat is that once you buy a Ducatto you must immediatley call customer care and book it in for a repair. Now you could call what they do a repair or kinda like putting a bush in a hole. For the most part there are no solutions this has been proved beyond doubt. Fiat will hopefully take your vehcile tinker with it which will lesson the probelm, but NOT CURE IT !

 

For those that get this bush in the hole well it will perhaps last until the vehicle is out of warrnty and for other you will be driving somewhere hopefully not up the Alps and suddenly you will have failure. Now at this stage one would hope that you have taken the tin box from under the bed with you because you will need every penny.

 

Several Ducatto owners have discovered them selves up S*it creek and with no paddles and the story of how they got themselves home reads more like a survival story.

 

If you are lucky Fiat will call you from customer care they called me many times, but when you are talking to a paid phone centre who wouldn't know a motorhome from a tree they are not exactly in a position to run down to a manager and get you sorted. Instead they will ask you the several dozen questions and assure you that your commenst will be passed on and then you wait.

 

Fiat have not fixed my motorhome or offerd a fix and it was only under duress that 2 years after reporting my complaint they sent and engineer to take the vehicle a wee run out a road in Belfast. He concluded that the vehcile judders but that's not a problem. Truth is it's not a problem because he was getting on a plane back to where he came from and I was getting to drive away with a 85k vehicle that is unroadworthy.

 

So getting a nice girl to talk to on the phone is far removed from buying a vehicle which requires repair the minute your cheque clears !

 

 

 

 

[rupert123]

Welcome to the forum Pete. Nice to see you have had a positive result from Fiat. Hope all goes well and the vibration in reverse is cured, as many others have been. Good to see that mainly due to Andy's hard work Fiat are now fixing the faulty vans.

[rupert123]

Sorry double post, why can you not delete your own posts on this forum?

[Brambles]

moyne - 2010-03-12 8:13 AM

 

 

.......Fiat have not fixed my motorhome or offerd a fix and it was only under duress that 2 years after reporting my complaint they sent and engineer to take the vehicle a wee run out a road in Belfast. He concluded that the vehcile judders but that's not a problem. Truth is it's not a problem because he was getting on a plane back to where he came from and I was getting to drive away with a 85k vehicle that is unroadworthy.

..............

 

 

I am confused Moyne, because back in Feb (25th?) you posted saying Fiat in Belfast returned your vehicle to you without anyone having looked at it and there was no fault with the vehicle.

[Geoff Tuckley]

Hello, Brambles,

 

I have the tyre pressures recommended in the manual which are 5 bar in the front and 5.5 bar in the rear. I go to my local tyre depot to have them checked as they have a graduated pressure monitor.