moyne Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 (I am confused Moyne, because back in Feb (25th?) you posted saying Fiat in Belfast returned your vehicle to you without anyone having looked at it and there was no fault with the vehicle.) I took my vehicle twice to Belfast the first time was at the request of Fiat in Dublin I was asked to take it to Wilsons of Rathkenny ( Belfast ) the guys in Dublin contacted Turin to get the Ok to have the vehicle inspected but they had arranged with me to have it taken to Belfast first. Fiat in Turin contacted Wilsons directly and said not to look at the vehicle as there were no probelms with Fiat vehicles so there was no requirement to look for a fault that did not exist. Wilsons contacted me and said that I was to have the vehicle collected as they were not allowed to look at it. The second time was to Northern Truck Ltd. this was after Fiat received correspondence from my solicitors stating that an action was being processed. On this occasion Fiat arranged for a representative to come over from Edinburgh. This gentleman took the vehicle for a drive and that was the sumation of his investigation. Following this my solicitors received a report rom Fiat not their engineer, which stated that the vehicle had a judder (vibration) but this was normal in a vehicle of this size. There were serious anomolies in this letter from Fiat which my solicitors asked Fiat for clarification some weeks ago, no response has been recieved to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 rupert123 - 2010-03-12 9:41 AM Welcome to the forum Pete. Nice to see you have had a positive result from Fiat. Hope all goes well and the vibration in reverse is cured, as many others have been. Good to see that mainly due to Andy's hard work Fiat are now fixing the faulty vans. Well rupert123 why don't they do the decent thing and put in place a general recall and fix them all, after all they all started with the same reverse ratio so they all need fixing. It's not good enough to wait until people complain and only fix those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogP Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 sorry for posting here but is there a thread on the forum that explains in fairly simple terms what the issue is. I've tried to search (no joy) and to glean the info from this whopping thread but I'm still unsure I know what or how this issue manifests itself. I've only just purchased a 2007 MH on the 2.3 130 Fiat and other than reversing on and off my drive I've yet to do any in anger. Due to my driveway (sloped) , access to it and how I need to manouver on the drive I do have to give the engine some revs and I have always had a small amount of clutch burn smell and some shake rattle and roll from the MH even my last MH on the 2007 Transit did , doing the manouver , in a similar way. So how would you make sure the van is OK or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Hi RogP Your van being 2007 it may well be out of warranty if it has the 3 year option there may still be some time left.First step would be to contact FIAT customer services and register your problem. All X250 suffer with to high a reverse ratio in some this manifests itself with judder when reversing especially on a slope or grass.Because the ratio is high it is not possible to reverse at a crawl speed with the clutch fully engaged so slipping is necessary and results in burning clutch smell burning clutch = premature clutch failure.In severe cases judder has led to gearbox failure. Some X250's have had the gearbox and other mods to reduce problems but while this has improved things it is still far from perfect you just have to live with it and be carefull how and where you reverse. If you are faced with having to carry out the mods at your own expence you can expect a sizeable bill about 16 hours labour plus some expensive gearbox parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 RoyH - 2010-03-12 9:29 PM rupert123 - 2010-03-12 9:41 AM Welcome to the forum Pete. Nice to see you have had a positive result from Fiat. Hope all goes well and the vibration in reverse is cured, as many others have been. Good to see that mainly due to Andy's hard work Fiat are now fixing the faulty vans. Well rupert123 why don't they do the decent thing and put in place a general recall and fix them all, after all they all started with the same reverse ratio so they all need fixing. It's not good enough to wait until people complain and only fix those. It is not a safety issue so a recall will not be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 ("It is not a safety issue so a recall will not be made") Lets just take this comment into context it's not a safety issue. So you buy a new Tv and it does not switch on or you buy a new motorhome and it will not start. It's not a safety issue and all the TV's and Motorhomes in this range will not start or turn on but they are safe. So you as a buyer go to the seller and they say well look on the bright side it's safe. You will no doubt at this point think What a load of BULL! Well that's what I would think whilst I would be engaged in jumping up and down on their counter ! The issue is if you have a large percentage of merchandise which has a difficulty which is known to you as a manufacturer you have an obligation in law not morality to insure that this problem is brought to the attention of your customers. Fiat have not done this ! You also have an obligation in LAW ! to repair or replace or refund the buyer ! Fiat have not done this either. This only happens if you complain long enough ! Well for some lucky clients anyway ! Seems some people are happy and others are just unlucky. I have read the law and luck does not appear to be in there anywhere. Perhaps my ignorance of this will be improved should I find that in the law as long as it's safe you cannot complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Moyne you really need to get your head together and not take everything personally. I simply made a statement as the question was asked and as far I am aware this is the case, no right or wrong just the way it is. As you are talking about the law, do not know about Ireland, but in the UK the only claim for faulty goods is against the person who sold you the goods. You may not like it but once again the way it is, no good blaming me I cannot change it. No one can make a claim direct against Fiat except a dealer but first someone needs to take a dealer to court. As far as I am aware, again, no one has done this, why not, beats me if their van is that bad. It would seem to me a lot are talking but no action, a pretty standard state of affairs with complaints. You can talk about the moral issues all you like but all big business, especially vehicles, morals do not enter into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 The only thing I ever take personally is someone putting water in my whiskey, that is only because if it was meant to be in there it would be in there. Other than that I wriite to get the the response which I expect. I usually get it ! I remember a guy once sitting in the middle of a pier with his line lying on the ground a young pup asked " have you caught anything yet?" He answered "yes" your the third ! I in my infinite wisdom am well aware of who and cannot be addressed in a legal action. Action can be taken against the seller there are many precedents in this, however the seller can also be joined with other parties so Fiat and the manufacturer can be named as co defendents in any action. There are a good few cases on record where this has happened, this usually occurs when one party is not capable of defending the case or has not the financial ability to pay the expected cost of expediting the case or where blame can be apportioned to the third party. There appears to be the misconception that Fiat has not already been addressed in the courts for their failure to manufacture a vehicle without a fault in the gearbox. Europe is large and the courts are infinite The UK and Ireland are but a small portion of the EU. Oh yes, the other thing I take personal is anyone messin with the missus. So as for my head well, this is only a discussion forum and whatever I do is for moi and anything else, well if it assists someone else so be it. "If you truly want to understand something try to change it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Just to say that despite my solicitors having written to Fiat some weeks ago they have as yet not responded maybe I will publish all this correspondence someday. Fiat are now advertising the Ducatto Van as a wonderful vehicle on the radio in Ireland. Me thinks they are a right bunch of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Many thanks to all that have posted comments re my clutch failure. I have accepted £1500 from Fiat towards the actual bill of £1660 which I think is a fair result having covered some 26,000 before the second failure. At all times i remain polite and curtious in my dealings with Fiat did not resort to slagging off anyone who worked or had dealings with my van and had support from Marquis of Lee Mill Plymouth who supplied the van. I supplied an independant engineers report which proved my case. The gentelman I dealt with even wrote a letter confirming their offer and thanked me for the way in which I presented my case. The van still judders in reverse even after having a new Dual mass Flywheel, Pressure Plate, Friction plate, Slave cylinder and the end casing of the gearbox replaced. When I explaind that the clutch assembly had been replaced the original fault still there. I was told should it fail again Fiat would look at it sympatheticaly, but each case was delt with on an individual basis. So patience and politness and dogged determination may work for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Good result, Ted, despite the continuing judders. Is it possible for you to say who was the independent engineer, since others may find a contact useful, and possibly an indication of his charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I blame the servers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Thank you Fiat. We were at the point of changing our 5 year old Rapido for a new one at a cost of near £30,000 for the change over. Thanks to your problems we decided against it and instead I polished up our existing Rapido and fitted a new set of Michelin Agilis Camper Tyres (Great tyres). Now we will probably hang on to our existing Motorhome for another three or four years. So even allowing for the £600 for the tyres and £2,400 or so for a new carpet my wife decided to have out of the savings we are still £27,000 better off and our existing motor home has lets face it only done 15,400 miles and is in as new condition. So thank you Fiat you saved me from myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I am happy to supply the engineers details can I just post them on here or is that advertising and not allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 weldted - 2010-03-16 8:34 PM I am happy to supply the engineers details can I just post them on here or is that advertising and not allowed? No Ted, it would not be seen as advertising (you have no direct interest in the outcomes), but it may be politic to confirm the engineer is happy to be promoted in this way - just in case!!!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 My interpretation of those to whom FIAT are polite and to others who are almost completely ignored may be due to their publicising or not their problems on forums. Those who have been treated quite openly and fairly by FIAT must be thankful to those who have publicised the problems openly. The most unfortunate FIAT owner at this moment appears to be Moyne from Ireland who having tried all the avenues and even when involving the law he still has not received any straightforward and truthful comments from FIAT. Perhaps now that the Michael Jackson estate has been granted a reprieve in its financial downturn with the projected earnings of $250 million world wide from their new 10 album world record deal, one of which will be never-to-be-released Jackson recordings, we may see a more sympathetic approach to the likes of our Irish neighbour Moyne. How pleasant it would be if a FIAT member cared to respond with a worthwhile proposal, particularly as by the time you read this it will be “St Patrick’s Day” (March 12th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 A very Happy St Patricks day to all on the feast of our patron saint even if he was a French welsh man ! No serious drinker would let green beer touch his lips. Nor would water ever be poured into or near a good whiskey ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Well said Moyne, did FIAT make contact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I have posted my problems far and wide on this and other forums, but have still remained polite to all I had to deal with and got there in the end. (Decorator please note. And as to the comment about publishing other peoples details without their consent (Brian please note) I would think by now I would have demonstated that politeness and respect goes a long way to to suggest that I would publish other peoples details without their permission I find insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 For those who may interested the Engineer I used to inspect my Fiat X250 motorhome re the clutch failure details are as follows. Mr E McMonagle (Mac) contactable by mobile 00447801399404 His garage is Lakeside Garage Hooe Nr Plymouth Devon (01752401804) He is a member of the Institue of the Motoring Industry and has over 50 years experience. Charges Start at £250 plus traveling and vary according to services required. My bill was £320 as I live localy. But in context the repair bill would have been £1660. It is best to try to contact him on his mobile in the first instance as I know that he will be in Ireland from the 22nd of this month. I have no financial interest in this information and supply these details in good faith that it may assist others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 One would think that as St Patricks day celebrations passed that someone in Fiat would have thought oh yes, we must reply to that solicitor who is representing that pain in the ass in Ireland. Well, the festive season passed and no response as been received. I still think green beer should be outlawed. Anyhow, on the up side if there could be such a thing if your the owner of a motorhome which shakes and burns in reverse. The weather is improving and the summer holidays are being planned. If anyone ever wishes to come to Ireland I know where there is a beautiful thatched house and you can park your motorhome beside it ! Is anyone alive in Fiat customer support I'm still waiting, Hello anybody there ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 My 11 year old son said, this morning that it is foolish to have a battle of wits with and unarmed man ! Me thinks Fiat fit into this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Gerard, I think you deserve a Medal for persistance and good temper. I would have probably driven the van to Fiats Head office in Italy and Parked it in their front office by now. Don't give up ! we are all anxious to hear the outcome. Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 weldted - 2010-03-18 9:35 PM I have posted my problems far and wide on this and other forums, but have still remained polite to all I had to deal with and got there in the end. (Decorator please note. And as to the comment about publishing other peoples details without their consent (Brian please note) I would think by now I would have demonstrated that politeness and respect goes a long way to to suggest that I would publish other peoples details without their permission I find insulting. Which just goes to show how difficult it can sometimes be to avoid giving offence! I don't think I suggested you would do that Ted, or even that you might but, having myself fallen into the trap of unintentionally giving away more of someone else's details than they were happy to have revealed, and since it was my suggestion to publicise this chap's details, I offered the observation in a spirit of friendship, not to slight you or your good manners. I hope you can accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Another double! This system is seriously knackered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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