Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen transmission defect (5)

[Mike88]

Moyne - the fact Fiat have refused to reply to your letter is surely a good thing and strengthens your case. I don't think a judge would be overly impressed!

 

I presume the letter was sent the Irish equivalent of Recorded Delivery. I would get the letter re-sent because they have been given sufficient time to reply.

 

 

[weldted]

why do we not have a rally to all appear outside Fiat uk's head office I am sure we could get some sort of coverage and then go on to somewhere else?

[moyne]

Mike88 - 2010-03-19 1:50 PM

 

Moyne - the fact Fiat have refused to reply to your letter is surely a good thing and strengthens your case. I don't think a judge would be overly impressed!

 

I presume the letter was sent the Irish equivalent of Recorded Delivery. I would get the letter re-sent because they have been given sufficient time to reply.

 

All correspondence from Solicitors are sent recorded delivery and I'm not complaining that they don't write back It's just to show that they don't care much and you are correct silence is not a defence.

 

However time is racing on and I will be more than interested to hear what Fiat have to say in their defence which in time will have to come as an affidavit. Life is good and as long as there are places where one can acquire a good pint of the black stuff life will not be soo bad !

 

Patience is a virtue and one should never show the opponent all the cards in your hand even in a forum such as this !

 

 

[moyne]

weldted - 2010-03-19 2:20 PM

 

why do we not have a rally to all appear outside Fiat uk's head office I am sure we could get some sort of coverage and then go on to somewhere else?

 

As long as there Head Office was not a hill we could arrive and turn safely

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, I just saw an ad on tv promoting extended vehicle warranty options. I wonder if anyone with the wobbly gearbox problems has attempted to take out any form of breakdown/extended warranty insurance to cover the repair including clutch/transmission problem on motorhomes. The ad refered to cars and vans, but I couldnt find a way to get a quote for a motorhome. Do Fiat or Peugeot offer anything like it , but which WILL include CLUTCHES, GEARBOX, DUAL MASS FLYWHEELS etc, or does anyone know any other insurer willing to take the risk.

 

The premium should be quite reasonable as average mileage is generally lower than cars or vans, and both Fiat and Peugeot say there is no problems !!!!!!!

 

Any insurer out there willing to take me on.?????

 

tonyg3nwl

[tonyg3nwl]

sorry, double post , now deleted

 

tonyg3nwl

[moyne]

Did I see a lack of steam coming from this forum !

 

Dear Sirs in Fiat land just because there may at times be few comments watch out as before all storms there is a calm. I was always told to beware of calm seas !

 

 

[moyne]

Two years after buying my vehicle Fiat still made a cock up in the warranty date. This is after them getting the information several times and still they cannot get it right. I rang today to get a part replaced (throttle valve) which is the only part which is under recall. The agent said that Fiat still had not updated my warranty to the correct date.

 

They are just unbelievable ! They may get it correct at some stage then again the warranty runs out soon.

 

[crofter46]

I have just collected my converted Peugeot Boxer van (6 speed box,120 bhp ) from the Peugeot dealership,following the carrying out of warranty works to remedy the well documented juddering / drivetrain defects.

 

The dealership advise that they fitted a new clutch and flywheel and replaced the input shaft as instructed by Peugeot Technical.They advise however that they did not fit a lower ratio reverse gear and as a result there is of course no alteration of the reverse gear ratio.

 

Certainly there has been a very significant lessening of the juddering previously experienced on steep hill reversing.While I am not 100% satisfied I feel much more confident in undertaking such a manouver and I would not now seek to avoid doing so,in the future.

 

As a result I am left somewhat disappointed or perhaps confused and would like to know if what was undertaken is now Peugeot’s standard remedy for the defect or if in fact they continue (a) to fit the lower ratio reverse gear or (b) also and in addition fit a new flywheel and input shaft .

 

I would appreciate if any forum members could let me know if there is there any certain way of finding out of what is now Peugeot’s stated position on their’ fix ‘ for the problem., so that if it is necessary and if a further improvement would result in having the lower ratio reverse gear fitted .,I will at least have some certain basis on which to approach the dealership.Any members who have had just the new flywheel and input shaft fitted,might please let me know of their experience, be it positive or negative.

 

[crofter46]

I have just collected my converted Peugeot Boxer van (6 speed box,120 bhp ) from the Peugeot dealership,following the carrying out of warranty works to remedy the well documented juddering / drivetrain defects.

 

The dealership advise that they fitted a new clutch and flywheel and replaced the input shaft as instructed by Peugeot Technical.They advise however that they did not fit a lower ratio reverse gear and as a result there is of course no alteration of the reverse gear ratio.

 

Certainly there has been a very significant lessening of the juddering previously experienced on steep hill reversing.While I am not 100% satisfied I feel much more confident in undertaking such a manouver and I would not now seek to avoid doing so,in the future.

 

As a result I am left somewhat disappointed or perhaps confused and would like to know if what was undertaken is now Peugeot’s standard remedy for the defect or if in fact they continue (a) to fit the lower ratio reverse gear or (b) also and in addition fit a new flywheel and input shaft .

 

I would appreciate if any forum members could let me know if there is there any certain way of finding out of what is now Peugeot’s stated position on their’ fix ‘ for the problem., so that if it is necessary and if a further improvement would result in having the lower ratio reverse gear fitted .,I will at least have some certain basis on which to approach the dealership.Any members who have had just the new flywheel and input shaft fitted,might please let me know of their experience, be it positive or negative.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Assuming the input shaft referred to is the input shaft to the gearbox, they will have had the gearbox out and stripped it to fit the new shaft.  Unless the shaft on yours was actually damaged in some way to necessitate its replacement, or unless some other modification has been incorporated into the shaft (synchromesh rings, bearings?), it would seem a very expensive modification to undertake without also changing the overly high reverse ratio that underlies the judder, vibration, resonance - or whatever it is this week.  :-)

Why not ask Peugeot directly if they can find out what exactly was replaced on your van?  It is, after all, your property, so you should be entitled to know what they have done to it.

[dave42]

We have just returned from New Zealand where we rented a 24ft VW van conversion for several weeks. On a couple of occasions I had to reverse the van up fairly steep inclines on unsealed surfaces. This is something I would be very concerned to attempt in our "fixed" Peugeot but the VW handled it with ease and with not a sign of judder. The reverse ratio was noticably lower in the VW.

 

This is the first time I have driven a non Peugeot/Fiat based van and, boy, is the grass greener on another chassis!

[euroserv]

Due for a bump, i think

[moyne]

Still nothing from Fiat ! I did call the other day re: the recal issue of a throttle valve and the vehicle is booked in rom the 8th of April.

 

My solicitors have written as I have said before to Fiat, but nothing has been heard from them in response, so much for their giving a toss !

[dshague]

bump any one got any news on the subject

[spospe]

Anyone got any evidence from dealers saying that the judder problem is having any affect on sales?

 

Anyone had a talk with a dealer regarding the judder and what did they say?

 

I spoke, face to face with IH about three years ago, more or less at the start of this fiasco and they denied all knowledge.

 

Anyone else noticed how muted the April MMM is regarding the judder? Several tests and comparisons and no comments (unless I have totally missed them).

 

[Mel B]

I had a chat with a dealer in the autumn last year when we were considering changing our van for a Eura Mobil, it came in 2 layouts, one on a Ford, one on a Fiat. He was quite honest and accepted totally that some Fiats do have major problems and he had had some himself with the judders and said at the end of the day it was up to us, if we were not willing to take the risk, quite simply we shouldn't get a Fiat as he couldn't guarantee that the one we bought wouldn't judder (although we would have been able to test it first).

 

Unfortunately though he was the exception, some other dealers either deny all knowledge or say there is a cure for it ... but as the cure works on some, and some it doesn't on others, that's not totally true but they didn't want to comment on that .....

 

It will be difficult to assess whether there is any real effect as I'm sure a lot of dealers will rightly or wrongly put any decrease in sales down to the state of the economy. Only time will tell.

[Rayjsj]

As a potential purchaser I am concerned about the second hand market, at least with a Dealer you have the 'Sale of goods act' if he sells you a 'Judderer', if you buy privately you are trusting that they are selling for the reasons they say, of course they could be getting 'Rid' because of these problems. I 'd want pretty comprehensive proof (and a lengthy test drive, with an uphill reverse) before I would part with my money for an X250 based van. And they are now coming to the end of their Manufacturers Warranty.(the 'Early' ones). Ray :-S

[Colin9591]

Having a habitation service at the w/e I asked the approved/certified/qualified mobile technician how his X250 was performing and sadly he reported all of the usual juddering issues with his Maxi van. He's been on to Fiat endlessly and keeps on receiving unfulfilled promises to organise a fix. It seems that every time he gets near to a confirmed appointment, they realise it's a van and three times now they've told him.

 

"We aren't doing vans" !!

 

Great customer service.

 

Regards

[AndyStothert]

From the discussions I've had with probably a couple of hundred owners who have the modifications done the majority who have tested them properly (including ours which got stuck in a situation on Wrynose pass a few weeks ago) the overall impression is that they are much improved from the previous state, but that the reverse gear ratio is still too high for slow controlled reversing in tight or steep places. This then means slipping the clutch quite a lot as the only way to keep the speed down and torque up in such situations.

However, it seems that the tendency to eat the synchro ring on second gear has also been eliminated when there is excessive vibration reversing too slowly, so the modifications do seem to be a worthwhile improvement.

What is also clear is that the bigger and heavier they are the less benefit is felt from the modifcations. Fortunately not many 2.3litre 6 speed 3.5 ton plus vans have been sold.

Conclusions?

Time will be the only judge as to whether these modfications are effective in the long term, but touch wood, there do not seem to have been any gearbox failures on the modified vans.

The challenge facing second hand buyers will be finding out (if they even know of the issues) whether the van they are looking at has had the gearbox sorted out or not?

The dealers will be very reluctant to open that particular can of worms, and private sales will be a lottery unless the owner keeps the paperwork from the modifications to show the next buyer.

 

[The Decorator]

I see a similarity between Toyota and Fiat here regarding non co-operation with the public at the beginnings of their problem, Toyota dismissed everything until too many deaths occurred; fortunately there are none here as yet unless someone is caught in the high reversing speed, not likely I hear, lets hope not.

 

With Toyota it was all “lets maximise sales regardless of accuracy” just like Fiat. When production outstrips quality something always has to suffer and its usually quality when to keep abreast of the assembly line with their ‘just in time’ processes, additional designers and suppliers are often used who are probably unknown to the industry.

 

I’m a little surprised no one has quoted the Toyota story as yet, on TV recently.

 

[AliB]

AndyStothert - 2010-03-29 11:30 PM

 

private sales will be a lottery unless the owner keeps the paperwork from the modifications to show the next buyer.

 

What paperwork? The one big complaint I have is the modifying Fiat dealer said they were not able (or maybe allowed) to issue paperwork. I was informed all the vehicle details were on their, and Fiat's database, and any potential secondhand buyer could contact the dealer or Fiat for verification of the modifications. I would have much preferred a piece of paper.

Our 4T 2.3L 6 speed is improved beyond all recognition. I've even stopped testing it when I see a suitable hill!

[Mike88]

Is this the first? Comfortmatic gearbox failure at 6000 miles. Thread here:

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-83434.html

[Sonofagun]

Quote - 'What paperwork? The one big complaint I have is the modifying Fiat dealer said they were not able (or maybe allowed) to issue paperwork. I was informed all the vehicle details were on their, and Fiat's database, and any potential secondhand buyer could contact the dealer or Fiat for verification of the modifications.' I

 

Exactly what I was told when our van was modified.

 

[euroserv]

Mike,

 

Looked at the other forum to see if there were any clues as to what has happened; I am not a member so cannot ask questions.

 

If anyone is a member, could they ask if there were any warning signs to an imminent problem? I seriously doubt that the owner would give a frank answer to that question while there is a warranty claim going on, but I would suspect that it did not just 'go bang' without prior warning.

 

Most big problems come as a result of small ones being ignored and the most likely causes are a hydraulic leak or flywheel failure. I have a great deal invested in these vehicles and am as concerned as anyone if there is a faulty one out there but I would urge caution until all of the relevant facts are known.

 

We read earlier this year about a damaged 3.0 manual gearbox only to learn that it had been driven thousands of miles with a known problem.

 

Regarding one of the replies to that thread, I too suggest easing up on the accelerator during changes to avoid wrecking your china tea sets. It can get a bit jerky at times if you are brutal with the throttle. If you drive it in a relaxed manner it changes easily as smoothly as a conventional auto and as you get used to it you can even tell it when you would like it to change gear just by varied pressure on the accelerator pedal.

 

Nick