Colin Leake Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I can understand Andy's point of view and certainly appreciate all the work he and for that matter MMM have done to highlight the problems and push Fait into a rather slow responce and hopefully a cure. However forums like this are to keep us all informed and as such reporting cures are every bit as important to many of us as was the reporting of the original problem. I have always liked the new Fait chassis and the only thing putting us off changing our motorhome has been the problems with the gearbox. I can never thank enough those who made us awear of said problems before we went ahead and invested in such a floored product. If Fait have found a cure lets have more corrispondents on the Forum confirming this. It is after all the results and news we have all been waiting to hear so please Andy don't undo all your good work by slagging off those who would bring us the good news. I'm sure their intentions are entirely honerable and I for one appreciate the fact that they are taking the time and making the effort to keep us informed as much as I appreciate your efforts in bringing the problem to our notice in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Neil Hunt - 2009-11-22 10:51 AM Tracker, Interesting that you should champion the right of all to have their say and then describe a contrary opinion as a "reprisal" and "castigation". I certainly agree that the written word is open to interpretation by the reader and that often the interpretation will depend on the mood of the reader. The contrary opinion posted by Andy came across to me as a form of rebuke to Arthur for daring to post a view contrary to his own. I don't for one minute think that Andy would act in that manner but I was keen that the fairly new Arthur, and any other new or shy readers, should not be discouraged from posting due to a fear of getting a rebuke for daring to differ. If my lack of word power has you thinking that I am castigating Andy then that was not my intent - I just want to see all and every point of view on here - on every subject not just this one - to be able to make up my own mind based on balanced information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Arthur stated in his post quite clearly that he understood all the work that had gone on. Why should he be shouted at because he posts a postive as the result of this work. Keep stating your case Arthur, do not be put off by some of the replies you will get. Why should it be kept quiet that all the fuss is getting results, surely that is what was wanted. Fiat are at long last starting to respond to the complaints and the new gearbox mods will confirm what most know, that it is the best m/h base currently on the market. Incidently just had a glance through my wifes new MMM magazine and read a road test report. It was interesting to note the tester did a reverse test on the two vans and found they both reversed fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 arthur49 - 2009-11-21 5:18 PM Would I buy another X250 2.3 litre? Definitely. Arthur Arthur, I think that your experience is how ALL people who get this problem should be treated and I am glad that it has turned out well for you. BUT...(1) it shouldn't have needed remedial work in the first place.(2) not everyone is as lucky as you,to have an understanding Dealer, and your experience with Fiat is not the same for everyone. I think it is fine that your point of view is put across, as you say it's what forums are all about. Would your experience sway me into buying an X250 based Motorhome or panel van, Sorry, but a resounding NO. Such a fundamental thing as a gearbox should be right from the factory (but Fiat/Sevel have 'previous' over this) and not after numerous trips back to the dealer/ Fiat garage to get it 'just about acceptable' . I am not an X250 owner,so I don't have the 'Bitter taste in my mouth' that many on this thread understandably have, my 'problem' with it is the lack of Buyer choice, nearly every van now is based on the 'Damn things' and unless you buy 'Pre-X250' the field is very limited indeed. SO, when a truly 'workable' fix is fitted at the Sevel factory and all new vans are rolling off the assembly line with a usable reverse gear whatever the load, they should announce it widely or folks like me will still consider them (X250's) Suspect. And I do mean ALL Fiats, Peugeots and Citroens 'cause they all roll off the same assembly lines. Ray >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Well said Ray, I for one back Andy all the way, he shoots from the hip and it is through his persistence that we have progressed so far with the dreaded gearbox problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Just as I thought long and hard before buying an X250 2.3 so I thought long and hard before posting on this thread but the subject title and the purpose of the forum made it appropriate, in my view, to submit my experience. After all before we bought our m/h I took into account all those views and experiences in this and previous related threads...... and other Forums. We also spoke to X250 2.3 owners on sites before buying. Whilst Fiat clearly have not covered themselves in glory, my experience has been positive and I decided to share. I repeat, I fully appreciate all the efforts made by others on this forum.... and maybe I should have added "thank you" which I do now. I genuinely hope that everyone gets satisfaction. Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Rich and Arthur and everyone, You must all have surely gathered by now that I don't give a flying wotsit whether folk have a different view to mine. It doesn't matter. In fact Arthur and I probably hold the same view about the actual vehicle. But it has a very specific fault, and what we have all done (along with some of the magazines, the two major manufacturers, a few Fiat employees and the Italian owners) is put sufficient pressure on Fiat to make some improvements. The bad publicity has had quite an effect on Fiat, and keeping up the pressure is the only way the rest of these vehicles (mainly the 3 litre ones and those who have impercert 2.2 and 2.3 litre vans) are going to be sorted. Fiat have had to be dragged every inch of the way and have shown that they will have be dragged the rest. That someone who has benefitted from all our efforts can't support the rest - by encouraging others to buy one - is what I'm 'rebuking' him for. Not for his opinion, which like mine, is that this is a pleasant vehicle to drive. What we are asking, and always have been, is for everyone to do the exact opposite of what Arthur did - and encourage everyone not to buy one until all these matters are resolved. It's all about stuff like compassion solidarity and careful consideration for others. The folk who own the 3 litre vans for instance have not got any offer of a solution, and as they supported us 2.3 litre owners from the start then I think us owners who have got the improvement (and in effect an admission of defect if it goes wrong again) should support them until they get satisfaction. It is nothing to do with me or my opinion. Just getting a result. And on that note I'm having a month off from shouting at Arthur (and Henry of course) to get some work done as my single cell cranial organ can't think about two things at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 AndyStothert - 2009-11-22 2:48 PM Rich and Arthur and everyone, You must all have surely gathered by now that I don't give a flying wotsit whether folk have a different view to mine. It doesn't matter. In fact Arthur and I probably hold the same view about the actual vehicle. But it has a very specific fault, and what we have all done (along with some of the magazines, the two major manufacturers, a few Fiat employees and the Italian owners) is put sufficient pressure on Fiat to make some improvements. The bad publicity has had quite an effect on Fiat, and keeping up the pressure is the only way the rest of these vehicles (mainly the 3 litre ones and those who have impercert 2.2 and 2.3 litre vans) are going to be sorted. Fiat have had to be dragged every inch of the way and have shown that they will have be dragged the rest. That someone who has benefitted from all our efforts can't support the rest - by encouraging others to buy one - is what I'm 'rebuking' him for. Not for his opinion, which like mine, is that this is a pleasant vehicle to drive. What we are asking, and always have been, is for everyone to do the exact opposite of what Arthur did - and encourage everyone not to buy one until all these matters are resolved. It's all about stuff like compassion solidarity and careful consideration for others. The folk who own the 3 litre vans for instance have not got any offer of a solution, and as they supported us 2.3 litre owners from the start then I think us owners who have got the improvement (and in effect an admission of defect if it goes wrong again) should support them until they get satisfaction. It is nothing to do with me or my opinion. Just getting a result. And on that note I'm having a month off from shouting at Arthur (and Henry of course) to get some work done as my single cell cranial organ can't think about two things at once. However reluctanly they may have been dragged there Fiat seem to have got there with the 2.3 and are even treating thier customers properly now so it seems hardly fair to deprive them of sales. Besides the objective was to force a cure so that we can take advantage of an otherwise excellent chassis so I see no reason now not to buy one. Me I'm waiting untill the NEC next year just to be on nthe safe side. I have always fancied the 3l but like you I'm not convinced about that so I'll give it a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Colin Leake - 2009-11-22 4:16 PM I see no reason now not to buy one. Fair enough Colin - but I sure as hell ain't buying one just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The question for anyone thinking of buying a Fiat/Peugeot is: How do you know you've got a trouble free one? Be that a second hand one that's supposedly been fixed, or a new one that is supposedly fault free as the mods have already been done in production. There are a lot of Fiat etc based vans out there now, both with dealers/owners and no doubt stacked up by converters and/or Fiat themselves - so how do you know the one you're getting is fault free???? I'd need a heck of a lot of proof if I bought a NEW one that it was newly 'hatched' and not one or the faulty ones that's been sitting around in a compound for many months and therefore not been modified. How do you know? Do you trust Fiat and the dealers enough to take this risk .... its your choice ... 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Mel B - 2009-11-22 4:55 PM Do you trust Fiat and the dealers enough to take this risk .... its your choice 8-) Not a chance! Only a fool would trust either the dealers or Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen as things stand at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Do not forget the FIAT solution is not a fix just an improvment on a poor design then look at how long it took to get FIAt to do anythink. Colin you must be a very forgiving and trusting person this Colin aint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowley Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have not seen anything in black and white from Fiat to say that vehicles coming off the production line have been modified. Have you noticed how the Fiat Forum have put a stop on the X250 judder thread. The Moderator seems a bit touchy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Buying a new X250 is playing Russian roulette. With Andy's perseverance much progress has been made and promised with the 2.3 and it is now the question as to how many of the chambers have bullets and how many are empty!! Arthur's were empty!!Sorry if I have his name but I am unable to scroll back to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 A quick trawl through this thread has indicated to me that the people who seem to be praising Fiat are all relatively new members of the Forum and I wonder at the significance of this? Well-established members are much more muted in their praise and I cannot help but wonder if the 'praisers' all have bought Fiat’s that they wish to have preserved in value? A question that does puzzle me is, 'how are dealers managing to sell new FIAT motorhomes at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 spospe - 2009-11-22 9:50 PM A question that does puzzle me is, 'how are dealers managing to sell new FIAT motorhomes at the moment? They are selling them in record numbers. I ordered my Fiat (Comfortmatic box) at the NEC and have been given an estimated delivery date of next May. I was against buying a Fiat but the bottom line is that they have cornered the market and the alternatives offering an automatic gearbox are very few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 spospe - 2009-11-22 9:50 PM A quick trawl through this thread has indicated to me that the people who seem to be praising Fiat are all relatively new members of the Forum and I wonder at the significance of this? Well-established members are much more muted in their praise and I cannot help but wonder if the 'praisers' all have bought Fiat’s that they wish to have preserved in value?......... At least as plausible, and maybe a little kinder, is that the newer members have more recent vehicles, and Fiat are responding more constructively to their pleas for assistance, at least in part to establish an overlay of "good conduct" stories.Those who have been through the last two years of Fiat inaction have perhaps now come to be seen by Fiat as lost causes, unlikely to lose their grudges. So, the new priority is to look after the latest buyers first, in an attempt to repair their poor customer relations reputation as one after another they report their problem fixed by helpful, constructive, people.I don't think one should really doubt the sincerity, or veracity, of those who report their problem having been fixed speedily and constructively. It isn't their fault if Fiat has changed its customer services priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I think Brian's assumption is spot on, my vehicle was brought in June 2008 & I have nothing but praise for both dealer & Fiat's customer services. In my experience Fiat always ring you back, arrange appointments with the dealer of your choice on your behalf and everything goes to plan far, far better than past experience with Ford's customer service. Would I buy again on a Fiat base, YES, it's one of the best base vehicles there is, drives & handles superbly, big roomy cab, large deep windscreen, good engines with loads of torque & so far very reliable. I would also add this is from a man who in the past would never go near a Fiat car & never had a good word to say about them, my X250 has changed all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Had my m/h since June 2007 managed to have mod. 1 completed end July 2009 still judder! and mod.2 8th/13th Nov. 2009, reported that judder was still obvious PLUS noise from gearbox (idle gear chatter). The man at Fiat could not beleive that I was not totally happy! every one else was, NOISE never! Awaitng further responce from technical, Italy. TIME/TIME/WORRY After all this time I am, I can't find words to explain,absolutely SICK chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Tracker - 2009-11-22 4:21 PM Colin Leake - 2009-11-22 4:16 PM I see no reason now not to buy one. Fair enough Colin - but I sure as hell ain't buying one just yet!Nor am I. What I'm proposing is to wait untill NEC in October 2010 and then ordering only if it seems that the problem has been solved. Even then the van we are looking at is a factory custom built version of the Frankia FF2 which means that we are looking at delivery middle of 2011. As it will be fractory fresh we should be able to be reasonably confident it will be a late chassis with all the mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Just because Andy is having a well earned break, it should not stop others from maintaining pressure on Fiat, IF they feel they have a genuine greivance. Having mod. 2 carried out on the 10th Nov. not only had I still got problems reversing I had also now inherited a noise in the gearbox. Andy had a box replaced for this condition. NO responce from Fiat todate! I have been to and spoke to gearbox specialists and they alll say NOISE - GEARBOX- NO. So on a more personal level I want Fiat to get rid of the noise, new box?, original reverse cog?, it judders whichever cog! IF they are not going to solve the problem 100% for All Dissastisfied owners (some appear to be happy) then I prefer to have judder and no noisey gearbox. After all I have done 13.000mls. forward but only ONE mile in reverse, mostly onto ferries. Don't get me wrong I think it's an absolute disgrace the way Fiat have handled the case and if I was not involved would not beleive it could happen in the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 lennyhb - 2009-11-23 11:36 AM I think Brian's assumption is spot on, my vehicle was brought in June 2008 & I have nothing but praise for both dealer & Fiat's customer services. In my experience Fiat always ring you back, arrange appointments with the dealer of your choice on your behalf and everything goes to plan far, far better than past experience with Ford's customer service. Would I buy again on a Fiat base, YES, it's one of the best base vehicles there is, drives & handles superbly, big roomy cab, large deep windscreen, good engines with loads of torque & so far very reliable. I would also add this is from a man who in the past would never go near a Fiat car & never had a good word to say about them, my X250 has changed all that. Well lucky old you. Prehaps you could point Fiat in the direction of the forum and ask them (Fiat) to treat the rest of their X250 customers in the same way that they have you. You obviously have the charm to acomplish what is impossible for the rest of us mere mortals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 mike 202 - 2009-11-25 6:30 PM lennyhb - 2009-11-23 11:36 AM I think Brian's assumption is spot on, my vehicle was brought in June 2008 & I have nothing but praise for both dealer & Fiat's customer services. In my experience Fiat always ring you back, arrange appointments with the dealer of your choice on your behalf and everything goes to plan far, far better than past experience with Ford's customer service. Would I buy again on a Fiat base, YES, it's one of the best base vehicles there is, drives & handles superbly, big roomy cab, large deep windscreen, good engines with loads of torque & so far very reliable. I would also add this is from a man who in the past would never go near a Fiat car & never had a good word to say about them, my X250 has changed all that. Well lucky old you. Prehaps you could point Fiat in the direction of the forum and ask them (Fiat) to treat the rest of their X250 customers in the same way that they have you. You obviously have the charm to acomplish what is impossible for the rest of us mere mortals. All I did was phone Fiat told them I was getting some judder when reversing, and the girl who took the call 'we have a fix for that I'll get someone from commercial to call you' and they sorted it out from there I never had to grovel or raise my voice they could not have have been more helpful. My mate got exactly the same response so it wasn't a one off & both our vans were sorted out in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 looking around the northern motorhome dealers it is quite surprising to see the forcecourts with so few x250 based vehicles, they seem to be desperate for stock both new and secondhand. Joe public must be more confident that Fiat in particular are now addressing the reverse gear problem. Anyone contemplating parting with their x250 should be assured of a good trade in price or outright sale price. The chassis is probably the best on the road for ride comfort and stability and once the transmission has been sorted it will definitely be one of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Roland, I am sure you are right, the X250 is very 'car-like' and great going fowards, i have test driven one and like it a lot, but the way things are at the moment I would not buy one (especially second hand,or without Fiat Warranty left), until ALL being bought have been 'Properly Fixed' with supporting paper-work and a Test Reverse up a hill as steep as my driveway. The one i tested (a Swift Mondial) nearly shook itself to death, My problem is there isn't any choice as nearly all Main UK suppliers are now on X250's , a few on Ford's, most of the Renault's are 'drying up' and even fewer on VW or Mercedes. I just want more choice. I totally agree with Val Long of Monmouth 'Any One Out There' (Letters Dec. MMM). I think the main reason Dealers are finding it hard to source Good Second hand vans, are people (like Val & Me) unwilling to risk their hard earned savings on a 'Flawed' product (it's not because of the recession,our savings are earning nothing in the Bank !) We want to buy, But ONLY when we have choice. :D :D Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.