mike 202 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Ray, and of course forum members, see my last post today Re "Autosleeper have stopped using Ford", it seems that there will just be a delay. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 webboci have you had your work carried out in doncaster ?lennyhb i to have had my judder fixed and it now as no judder ,did not have to scream and shout at fiat phoned up told them about problem ,told to take to dealers for test drive .dealer reports back to fiat ,date given to take in to dealers for work ,all within a month ,all i said to dealer after reading about fixes on out and about was van dos not come out till its had both fixes carried out .they did first fix it did not work then they phoned fiat for permission to do second .my van is a 2.3 6speed panel van . i agree that fiat as been dishonest with this problem .but it did not stop me buying a new fiat this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I am sorry but I have had all 3 fix's earlier this year, our van has only covered a total of 4000 miles in the past 2 years, but unfortunately is still judders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 unfortunately there are good and bad main agents about so it might help help if owners who have had their judder cured to let us all know which garage they used. I dont think there is any excuse for bad work including reassembly of the transmission and ending up with additional problems such as gear noises and oil leaks, that is down to shoddy workmanship and bad workshop management. Not so long ago an x250 which had been parked next to me moved off and left quite a large puddle of oil on the ground, the poor owner must have been oblivious to what was going to happen some time later. Could it be that his X250 had just come out of the garage after having the so called fix. I would have thought that good working practices included using new gaskets and sealer when a gearbox is reassembled then road tested and checked for leaks once the oil is hot. PLEASE NAME THE GOOD GARAGES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurice.heather1 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 :'( I have a burstner 821 tag axle new jan 2008 with the judder and the smell of the clutch burner.I have now written to fiat five times. also the service manger at chelston motorhomes as tested it without the need to find a hill. But still they say not to worry as there is no problems with the 3 liter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Maurice/Heather, I bet their story would change if you said 'how much will you give us on a Trade In ??' I would 'Take' the service manager on a test drive (to a Hill) and then let him back your van up it, then see what he says. Without some 'Factory Intervention' your 3 Litre will almost certainly 'cook it's Clutch' one day, probably just after the warranty has run out. keep on at them ! ;-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 euroserv - 2009-11-09 12:02 PM I am only sure about the gearbox at the moment, if someone could send me a list of part numbers being fitted for the mountings and dampers I will have a look. Sorry I have lost my list from months ago. Nick This is list of part numbers from early this year, note gearbox was at time discribed as prototype. 9666193180 gear box 16209448 flexible pipe (associated with the clutch disc pushing) 16209449 clucth kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 When is the motorhome industry going to get its act together and stop trying to mislead the public over the blatantly obvious transmission fault with theX250 chassis. First of all it was the 2.3ltr now its the 3ltr, of course there is a problem people don't complain for nothing. All the dealers out there who said there wasn't a problem have now got egg on their faces and are likend to the dodgy MP's, not to be trusted. There are genuine ones out there and their business will go from strength to strength because they are honest and caring to their customers. COME ON FIAT SORT OUT THE 3ltr PROBLEM PRONTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 We have new forum members Maurice and Heather, Welcome to you both. keep us informed on your progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 We have new forum members Maurice and Heather, Welcome to you both. keep us informed on your progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hi everyone. Last week I promised an update re juddering/vibration on my Boxer based Autocruise Stargazer. 2.2 litre engine I collected it yesterday after the latest attempts. The specialist last week recommended that the engine mounts be replaced, and egr valve be replaced, and any outstanding software updates were done. Yesterday this was completed. On the way home I rechecked for judder on the same test slope and am disappointed to say that there is still juddering vibration when reversing. Last week during discussion with the specialist , he stated that once these latest mods were done there might be some improvement, but would not necessarily be a cure. He also said that as there has be 2 gearbox/clutch/flywheel changes, there was no further solutions that they could offer, even if yesterdays efforts were not successful. He further stated that the vibration was not the same as judder that others complain about, but was a characteristic of the large vehicle. He stated further that there would not be any likelyhood of premature failure, and I should continue to use the vehicle normally. I have also received a confirmation letter from customer services stating much the same. I am not happy, and have informed Peugeot and await a response. tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 tonyg3nwl - 2009-12-01 9:38 AM Hi everyone. Last week I promised an update re juddering/vibration on my Boxer based Autocruise Stargazer. 2.2 litre engine On the way home I rechecked for judder on the same test slope and am disappointed to say that there is still juddering vibration when reversing. Last week during discussion with the specialist , he stated that once these latest mods were done there might be some improvement, but would not necessarily be a cure. He also said that as there has be 2 gearbox/clutch/flywheel changes, there was no further solutions that they could offer, even if yesterdays efforts were not successful. He further stated that the vibration was not the same as judder that others complain about, but was a characteristic of the large vehicle. He stated further that there would not be any likelyhood of premature failure, and I should continue to use the vehicle normally. I have also received a confirmation letter from customer services stating much the same. I am not happy, and have informed Peugeot and await a response. tonyg3nwl If the specialist stated that " There would not be any likelyhood of premature failure" - Are they or he willing to put there money where their mouth is and give you an extended Guarantee, after all, "It is a failure that, in their words, will never happen, all it costs them is a letter !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Colin, Thanks for that. The following is a bit technical and quite complicated but it is aimed at those members that are keen to know this stuff. The gearbox 9666193180 does indeed seem to be a prototype because although the computer recognises the number there are no 'applications' for it. The earliest vans had 71723455 up to 06/2007 then 966289780 up to 04/2009 when the current 9666193080 was adopted. Only one digit different from the prototype you will notice. You can order a recon 06/2007 box but if you try to order a new one, you will get the latest one. The flexi pipe 16209448 was also only a prototype because that number comes up with no applications either, as does the clutch that you listed 16209449 which means that none of these items has been incorporated in current build. Looking at the clutch the first design 71747971 ran from 07/2006 to 10/2007 when it was replaced by 504092160 and then again at 08/2008 to 504260039 but both of these numbers have now been superceded by the same number 504360588 which means that there is no difference except perhaps the supplier. We use a Valeo clutch kit for our vans and one number suits all! The master cylinder, pipework and slave cylinder have never been changed throughout on any vehicles with 2.3 engines so the replacement pipe with damper that you described has not been incorporated at all in new vehicles, because unsurprisingly it acheived nothing. Incidentally we now have had to replace 4 clutches. One wore out without drama at 90,000 miles, the other 3 had to be replaced when they literally fell apart! These were at 60,000 / 120,000 / and 129,000 miles respectively. The design of the cluch plate is unlike any I have seen before and looks like it will be prone to failure before wearing out but at these mileages I doubt it will bother the average Camper. WE have had to repair two gearboxes that were 'crunching' going between 3rd and 4th gear. One was at 15,000 miles and was done under warranty the second at 60,000 miles and we did it ourselves. This means that on a sample of 25 vans with 2.3 6 speed the record is no better than the old 2.8 5 speed. I would have hoped for less synchro failures in these vans. Fiat have not learned anything over the years but at least there are no signs of 5th or 6th gear problems....yet. We have also noticed on every one of the clutch replacements that the slave cylinder was showing signs of weeping fluid but we would have replaced it anyway. I do think that your vehicles are likely to suffer some fluid leaking over time, probably before the clutch wears out but I hasten to add that the Ford Transits and Mercedes Sprinters that we work on suffer at least as much as the Fiat's with clutch hydraulic problems; probably more so. Hope I did not bore you all too much! Keep up the pressure on Fiat, the 2.2 and 3.0 owners are yet to find a solution so I say boycott them all! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Nick. Did you pick up on my report of a noisey gearbox following mod. 2, any thoughts? usual lengthy wait for Fiats responce. Also, are the new gearbox/clutches interchangeble with the 2007 engine block or have there been modifications. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I agree with previous postings that the noise going forwards with modified boxes is probably nothing to worry about but it would be interesting to hear if anyone with a new van built since April 2009 or who has had a complete new gearbox fitted in the last few months is having the same issue. All of our vans have been quite noisy going backwards from new and they are mostly still fine. The modifications seem like a bodge to me and there are bound to be some side effects which are possibly ironed out in the final production version. All of the clutch and gearbox mods so far are backwards compatible with the engines past and present. If you are considering going it alone and fitting a late gearbox to any of your vehicles the price is approx £3200 plus VAT for a new one, there are no re-con options yet but when they are available they will be about £1500 and will probably be actually new ones that are supplied. You can buy the modified 'halway house' now as a re-con but I would not recommend it. Those with deep pockets (or in denial) should wait for the full monty to be available. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Nick, thank you very much for your time and effort, I (we ?) am not bored at all by all this valuable information, especially the dates of adoption of changed part no.s. please keep it coming. The more Light that is shone into to dark corners the better we are Informed. So we make better and more informed choices. Thanks again. Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Bump ! just to keep this problem up to date ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 From all the part numbers it appears anything made after April 2009 will have the new gearbox, or am I misunderstanding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-12-03 4:48 PM From all the part numbers it appears anything made after April 2009 will have the new gearbox, or am I misunderstanding this. More importantly how do you tell when you go to buy one whether it is an older or a newer version or indeed how long the base vehicle may have been sitting unsold on an old airfield - unless Fiat do as BMW do and stamp the build date on the VIN plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I agree Rayisi. Where is everyone? Are they bored with this thread? Well I am not. I have just had an invitation from a converter to test a one year old 2.3 6 speed van against a modified from new recent supplied similar van. Am i interested? You bet I am. T hanks Andy for all your pressure that has made this possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Tracker - 2009-12-03 5:06 PM rupert123 - 2009-12-03 4:48 PM From all the part numbers it appears anything made after April 2009 will have the new gearbox, or am I misunderstanding this. More importantly how do you tell when you go to buy one whether it is an older or a newer version or indeed how long the base vehicle may have been sitting unsold on an old airfield - unless Fiat do as BMW do and stamp the build date on the VIN plate? You can usually get some idea of the build date by looking at things like the seatbelt labels and window markings which have dates on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hello All, The only definitive way to know exactly when a given vehicle has been built is to check the chassis number against the Fiat parts system. I extend the offer once again to anyone that needs to know. Please feel free to PM the chassis number in question to me and I will reply as quickly as possible. I will not divulge any details on the forum except that once I have gathered enough data on post April 2009 vehicles I will give an idea of a break point in the chassis numbers that you will be able to check at a glance. The more data I get from you, the more accurate this will be. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Many thanks Nick - your ongoing interest and support is much appreciated - but I still ain't gonna buy one yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 There is now a long waiting list for some models because of the shortage of chassis. Any vehicle ordered now for delivery in a few months time will surely be of the modified type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Forgive me, I have been too busy to look at every part of every vehicle of late and I have been concentrating on the 2.3 6 speed vehicles. I have just noticed that there is a replacement gearbox with lower reverse gear being fitted to all versions of the 2.2 5 speed since April 2009 as well! It would appear that there is a solution for those still having problems with those vehicles too. If that is you, and you fancy a fight let me know your chassis number and from that I will tell which gearbox you have, and the later number as well so you can go into battle armed with the right information. There is definitely no update or any internal mods for the 3.0 yet. Sorry about that. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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