fred22 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I seem to remember reading somewhere that batteries should be topped up after charging and not before. Is my memory playing tricks or is this correct.? Something to do with the danger of acid overflowing I think. Is there a right and a wrong way, or does'nt it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Fred I have always topped-up before charging, so as to avoid the possibility of the plates being exposed and maybe drying out. If you top-up correctly to the right level, there should not be any problems (use distilled water, or 'soft' tap water). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Topping up water must be de-ionised. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAB Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Putting on my "Chemistry Teacher" hat (or should that be lab coat) ... Both distilled and deionised water are examples of purified water. This is achieved by either evaporation/condensation (leaving salts and other solid imputiies behind) or by passing through cationic and anionic exchange resins (which exchange positive cations for hydrogen ions and negative anions for hydroxide ions respecively - these combine to form water). With increasng energy costs purification by ion exchange resins is usually cheaper hence is now the norm for accumulator top-ups. Both are fine for the job. Here endeth the lesson. Clive Edit Sorry for the possible confusion - too manyy Clives! And I thought I was the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Ize bean ere sintz the forhum openned! Clive (Also lab tech at school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAB Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Then, as a relative newcomer, I must respectfully give way to your greater experience! From henceforth I will be known as CliveB! Now how do you change your signature? CliveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 With your initials and extensive information portfolio perhaps "Citizens Advice Bureau" would be more appropriate. C.M-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Now then, can any Clive join in. Clive from Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 For many years, I was a Telephone Exchange maintenance engineer and our standby batteries were 1500 A/H 50 volt jobbies (there were two such batteries per exchange, each consisting of 24 open topped cells). We had detailed data supplied to us on the salt content of our local tap water and in 'hard' water areas, we used distilled water supplied to the exchange in large glass carboy jars, in 'soft' water areas, we used tap water. The batteries had a service life of between 12 to 15 years. Water was always added to the cells before charging was started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Incidentally a cheap way of providing your own de-ionised water is to save and use the melted ice from the freezer compartment of your fridge/freezer. Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, All Clive,s unite. If alternative "handles" are required then I was also known as The Professor Doctor Hopalong PegLeg The Ayatollah Pick the bones out of that! Anyway De-Ionised water is the stuff made any way you like but without chalk I guess. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 thebishbus - 2009-11-10 9:01 AM Incidentally a cheap way of providing your own de-ionised water is to save and use the melted ice from the freezer compartment of your fridge/freezer. Brian. (Pedantic mode on) (lol) Wouldn't that be "distilled" rather than "de-ionised" water (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 allways remember, at decimilisation distilled water 6 pence a pint, after decimilisation it was 6p a pint, sorry just an aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Gpoing back to original question - batteries should be topped up to cover the plates or the minimum level, before charging and then after initial charging topped up to the original when new fill level, normally the max mark. Then the charge cycle completed to fully charge and left on a maintentance or trickle charge for a while. Reason is the electrolyte expands when charged so topping up full if it is say 50% discharged will redult inlevel being to high and acid specific gravity will be two low. I do not recommend melting frost from your freezer, it is a lot dirtier than you may think as the frost has built up over time and absorbed loads of impurities and contamination. Use distilled or de-ionised water which is not expensive now in the likes of Asda and Tesco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlChemist Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 And if/when it snows collect your evaporated/condensed/frozen distilled water in bucketfulls (but only if you live in the countryside away from pollutants). Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 AlChemist - 2009-11-12 12:47 AM And if/when it snows collect your evaporated/condensed/frozen distilled water in bucketfulls (but only if you live in the countryside away from pollutants). Al I Alchemist, I think you are making it up as you go along!!! :o) Snow is not clean, the snow flakes form on small particles of dust and collect more pollutants as they fall. The cleanest snow, falls in Antartica which may just be about safe enough to use, but still contains particles of dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlChemist Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Brambles You have hit me hard on a weak spot - electrochemistry! My understanding - and I'm happy to be corrected - is that it is the minerals present in hard water (in particular calcium and magnesium salts) which does the damage in lead batteries. The term "sulphation" springs to mind. I wouldn't think a bit of garlic essence from the freezer or dust in snow would cause any significant damage (but have to admit never using either as I have copious supplies of both distilled and de-ionised water in the lab - but don't tell my boss). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You are probably right, as long as any contamination is inert and is a very small amount it should not be a problem. Being realistic there is propably a lot of contamination in the distilled and de-ionised water you buy anyway. Most batteries anyway are sucking in and blowing out air as the warm and cool anyway through teh vents, good batteries will have a filter but most car batteries must suck in a lot of dust and oil laden air over the years. One problem I know off is over time you get a sort of scum forming on the acid, and when the battry level falls this scum can then get deposited on the plates and is not good. Hence level should never be allowed to fall below the top of the plates...but we all let that happen sometimes. Also falling levels increases the specific gravity of the acid and this can have a detrimental affect on the lead plates as well as causes errosion. So what is worse, air contacting the exposed lead plates, too high a srtength of acid, or topping up with slightly contaminated water? I suspect the former of letting the level fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred22 Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks Brambles, that seems to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 "And if/when it snows collect your evaporated/condensed/frozen distilled water in bucketfulls" Is the yellow stuff OK ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Clive, Are you taking the piss? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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