Geoff Tuckley Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I have just bought a side loading scooter trailer from a company in Ross-on Wye to take a scooter to Spain. When I ordered it I told the manufacturer what model of Honda scooter I had and he told me I needed the bigger and more expensive trailer. I paid for it by debit card and it eventually arrived. The trailer itself was fine but the loading ramp was far too short to the point where the scooter was bottoming when I was trying to load it onto the trailer. I phoned him and he said that there had been some problems in the past so he would send me the longer ramp which would solve the problem and would I send the original back to him by courier.. Four or five days later the ramp arrived and it did, indeed, solve the problem but when I looked in the packaging I discovered that he had deducted another £35 from my account. I phoned him and protested that a) There had been no mention of further payment when we last spoke and b) He had not asked my permission to deduct more money from my account. Needless to say he was not interested. He said he was not to know of the ground clearance on all scooters and he had no idea of supplying the longer ramp without further payment as he was running a business and is there to make money. He also wants me to send the original ramp back to him at my expense. I wish him luck! Beware when buying from such people and giving them access to your account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I would telephone bank and ask them to recall the money. I to sometimes have this problem, although not with a trailer I have a scooter rack, and simply put a leveling ramp under the loading ramp if needed. It would be better if you named the company invoved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Sure thing, It is CMF Trailers and they advertise on Ebay as a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Bad experience Geoff - I am not too sure about the exact position with regard to payments by card with the card holder not present but would agree that a call to the bank to clarify should be your next course of action. After all, there would seem to be nothing to stop the guy taking any amount out of your account without your permission..... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I sympathise but if you don't send the short ramps back there is every risk that he will charge you an unspecified amount for them - unless you contact the card issuer and get it blocked - if possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 For him to charge you twice without your authorisation means he must have kept ALL YOUR CREDIT CARD DETAILS on file somewhere...Now I am not sure but this can not be right can it?? report him to the credit card company and to Ebay if you really want to hurt him....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Spot on, Keeping our credit card details is illegal. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 CMF Engineering also advertises in MMM's classified pages and has a website (www.cmf-engineering.com). (There is an ancient saying round here that goes "Come to Ross to be sharpened", implying that Ross-on-Wye folk have a certain 'shrewdness' when it comes to financial matters.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Clive - 2009-11-15 11:09 PM Spot on, Keeping our credit card details is illegal. C. Thats not quite correct, when we take a payment, our slip has your number and expiry date on it, we are under no obligation to destroy it. If he put the payment through as a telephone sale, he may have be asked for house number and digits from your postcode, but he would have had that. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hi, Hmmmm .... so that way he sells two ramps? 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thats OK, Tracker, Closed the account on Saturday and opened a new one. We purposely keep an account for buying things over the phone or on line. We keep just a little in it and then if there is a scam there is not a lot to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Then Geoff, I think you should write to the trader - not e-mail - and advise him that you are dissatisfied that he has charged you extra for the extended ramps without advising you that they were extra cost items. You should also say you had provided him with all the information he needed to provide, and price, the correct ramps at the point of sale, and therefore the goods he supplied were not in conformity with your expressed requirements. You should tell him that, in view of the manner in which he "helped himself" to the supplementary payment, in breach of your contract with him, you have now closed the credit card account to prevent him from taking further unauthorised payments. And you should advise him that the incorrectly supplied ramps are available at your premises for him to collect at his convenience. Otherwise, I think he may take closure of the account to signify you intend keeping the goods without paying, and charge you with theft. In the absence of such a letter, you might be at some disadvantage if you had to explain your actions to a jury in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hi, Can you use pre-payment "credit" cards to ensure that you don't get double charged, as mentioned above? Can traders tell if you are using such a card? I have in mind the ferry companies charging you for not making the return journey. Not that I would, of course. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks, All of you for your interest. I have been to Trading Standards today and they helped me compose a letter which has been sent, Recorded Delivery to the company. I must say that it was every bit the same as Brian Kirby recommended apart from the fact that he can collect the original ramp at any time. WELL DONE BRIAN! I did telephone the trader today and explain that I had taken advice from Trading Standards about him taking money from the account without consulting us or even making us aware that he expected an extra payment and that he could collect his original ramp at any time so long as he arranged it with me previously. Also that the trailer (£560) was not fit for purpose with the original ramp. A femail member of staff I spoke to on the phone said "Whatever" End of conversation. Once again, Thanks Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 if he doesn't pick up the ramp, I'll give you a tenner for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 if he doesn't pick up the ramp, I'll give you a tenner for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Perhaps they are not allowed to keep your card details on a database then?? But the term "database" does not necessarilly mean on a computer. What is a filling cabinet full of slips called if not a database of customers card details? Which stick have I got hold of the wrong end of? C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Clive - 2009-11-16 4:58 PM Perhaps they are not allowed to keep your card details on a database then?? But the term "database" does not necessarilly mean on a computer. What is a filling cabinet full of slips called if not a database of customers card details? Which stick have I got hold of the wrong end of? C. by example: one company I get a lot of bike stuff from told me they where not allowed to keep card details. this came up when I ordered more stuff on the same day. the way I see it is if your details are "at hand" they can be potentially "at hand" to anyone! they need the 3 digit security number as well...where do they keep that *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hi one of our suppliers keeps my card details but not the 3 digit security number, which we have to supply every time we order. Amazon also have my card details, makes buying books easy. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Clive - 2009-11-16 4:58 PM Perhaps they are not allowed to keep your card details on a database then?? But the term "database" does not necessarilly mean on a computer. What is a filling cabinet full of slips called if not a database of customers card details? Which stick have I got hold of the wrong end of? C. Clive with all credit card slips you have to keep them until, at least, you check they have been credited to your account, things do misfire at times. The slips should then be destroyed but if the two transactions were close they would still have details, nothing wrong with this. On average, when I was taking cards, we kept the duplicate slip for about six weeks. All card companies do not like you taking money without permission though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You must write to the credit card company and explain what has happened. We take almost all the cards, and our experience is that if our customers feel that a transaction was not correct and contact the card companies, they write to us and it is always quickly and pleasantly sorted out. We find them very fair because they obviously want to keep both the card users and the traders happy and using their service. They will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone they think is a bit iffy. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Maybe a problem was that I did not use a credit card but a debit card. As I understand it the money is transferred instantly to the traders account upon the transaction being completed. If this is so, themoney had already been transferred before I even received the goods. One would think that there must be some recourse to someone using your account as a piggy bank. Also after the "Whatever" comment, I really think that someone needs to go on a customer care course. My wife went to HSBC and the best they could comeup with was to close the account and transfer the money into a new account that would once again be secure. The card people she spoke to on the phone said we could not register a dispute as it was not in the conditions of the card. I even wondered if it is technically theft? Any ex bobbies out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Messerschmitt Owner, See you have a Berkeley. Have posted you my e-mail address. Would love to see a photo. I had a great time with mine in my teens. It is one of those vehicles that still holds a dear place in my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Geoff Tuckley - 2009-11-17 3:21 PM Maybe a problem was that I did not use a credit card but a debit card. As I understand it the money is transferred instantly to the traders account upon the transaction being completed. If this is so, the money had already been transferred before I even received the goods. One would think that there must be some recourse to someone using your account as a piggy bank. Also after the "Whatever" comment, I really think that someone needs to go on a customer care course. My wife went to HSBC and the best they could come up with was to close the account and transfer the money into a new account that would once again be secure. The card people she spoke to on the phone said we could not register a dispute as it was not in the conditions of the card. I even wondered if it is technically theft? Any ex bobbies out there? Geoff, I think the lesson is never to use a debit card for internet, or 'phone, purchases. Always use a credit card, as you get additional benefits, not least that if the goods prove defective, do not turn up, or the seller proves non-existent, you can re-claim in full from the card company.Beyond that, any fraudster who has access to your debit card number has, in effect, access to the full balance of your account, and you will have the devil's own job trying to establish that fraud was the reason for the missing funds, and so be able to get the money back.With a credit card you can contact the issuer and tell them you wish to challenge a transaction you regard as fraudulent. They will close your account and issue another, with a new card, transferring your balance to the new account. You can set the credit limit on the card to suit your proposed use. That is far less of a risk than having the full balance of your bank account in play!If you and your wife open separate credit card accounts, and have only one card on each account, if one account has to be blocked because of fraud you still have the other account to use. If you have two cards on the one account, both will become useless when the account is blocked.A card company may see a transaction they regard as potentially fraudulent and temporarily block the account, possibly when you are abroad, and you will know nothing of this until you next use the card.This was my experience where a "customer not present" transaction (to top up an O2 mobile phone I do not own) was made on my card. The issuer blocked all further "customer not present" transactions, but left the card "live" for chip and PIN (even for transactions in France), because that implied my presence. I did not discover this has happened until I tried to make a transaction over the phone myself, and the trader couldn't complete the transaction. Had the card been a debit card, I would imagine the fraudster, having proved the card for the top up, would have been back for rather more! As it was it was a nuisance for a few days, and the fraudulent transaction was reversed by the company, but no real harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I do not know about all debit cards but when my Nationwide debit card number was presented for a low value purchase in the US, Nationwide blocked it instantly, phoned me to see if it was me (it wasn't) then cancelled the card and re-issued. I thought that was quite good service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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