RogerGW Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hello Mel and Brock, Perhaps you're more easily persuaded than I am. Much of my work consists of assessing business software and its makers. Like many industries, computing employs people with a plausible manner and a way with words whose job it is to make potential buyers believe that their employer's products are right for the job. It's my job to test those claims. I would be doing nobody any favours if I simply accepted these charmers' words at face value. They know this and provide me and people like me with case studies, research material, independent tests, customer references, corporate details and so on. This is as well as arranging for me to see and use the software. The situation here is analogous. The service manager at Chelston Motorhomes has merely given me an unsubstantiated assertion that the oil was changed. He has offered no corroboration, such as evidence from elsewhere that Fiat oil gets dirty quickly, extracts from Fiat's internal documentation, customer testimony, or articles in the trade or consumer press. Similarly, there was no invitation to see it being done on someone else's van, for example, or to look at the oil from another recently serviced vehicle. THAT is why I'm unconvinced. I might be overly suspicious but, as you see, I'm usually paid to be so. 8=) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 For what it is worth I have found Chelston to be helpful and professional in their response to any problems I have encountered. Thanks, Roy. That's good to know. I liked the cut of their jib, too, but this one thing niggles. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALAN G Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 A few years ago I bought a secondhand Autocruise from Brownhills at Newark. As it had been serviced and MOT'd I checked as much as I could, including the engine oil level. Surprise, surprise, it was black. So I asked, politely, what was going on. The foreman took me to a 40 Gallon Drum of new engine oil, which had the name of a well known motor company on it. From this he extracted a sample of beautiful black oil! I still have the Van but it gets serviced by a local garage that uses oil the colour of Golden Syrup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hi Roger, interesting that after my initial posting you felt: "Sounds as though they might have done it after all. I want to be sure before I go nuclear with these people. " But then after they said virtually exactly the same as me you distrust them again? Sorry mate, but it sounds to me like you're looking for an argument that doesn't actually exist. If a customer of mine came back after a service and said he suspected I hadn't change d his oil how would (could) I prove that I had? Show him the empty oil container? show him the old oil (currently residing in a 45 gallon drum along with several other peoples old oil)? show him written letters from previous customers saying how good I was and that they were convinced I had changed their oil properly? Here's a simple fact, the ONLY way to prove that your engine oil is new is to have a sample tested in a laboratory, old oil will have a significantly high level of hydrocarbons, carbon and acids not normally present in new oil. Do you really think that any service agent would pay for that test just to prove you wrong? NOT A CHANCE! If you really don't believe them then its up to you to prove it by having a sample tested. My apologies if this is too blunt for you but I tend to speak as I find! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hi Roger, interesting that after my initial posting you felt: "Sounds as though they might have done it after all. I want to be sure before I go nuclear with these people. " But then after they said virtually exactly the same as me you distrust them again? No, Dave, I never stopped mistrusting them but, on the other hand, I didn't 'go nuclear'. This was because what you and others said made me less certain that they hadn't changed it. I remain to convinced that they have, which is not the same thing. And the difference between your saying it and their saying it simple -- you, I have assumed, have no interest in persuading me they did what they said, whereas they have every interest in doing so. As the old legal phrase has it -- Cui bono? > the ONLY way to prove that your engine oil is new is to have a sample tested in a laboratory Possibly so but I'm not after complete proof, just something to move the balance of probabilities towards their having changed the oil. I suggested some ideas in my earlier message, so won't repeat them here. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Seems to me Roger you have two choices left: accept that they changed the oil and get on with using and enjoying your motorhome or change the oil yourself so that you can be 100% certain that its been done. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 davenewell@home - 2009-11-26 7:14 AM Seems to me Roger you have two choices left: accept that they changed the oil and get on with using and enjoying your motorhome or change the oil yourself so that you can be 100% certain that its been done. D. You beat me to it Dave good advice if your so worried change the filter and oil and do not go to that dealer again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Seems to me Roger you have two choices left: accept that they changed the oil and get on with using and enjoying your motorhome or change the oil yourself so that you can be 100% certain that its been done. You do like closing down options, don't you, Dave. 8=) There is at least a third possibility, which is that I continue to suspect that they did not change the oil but carry on using and enjoying my motorhome nonetheless. One of the members of the Tribby group, who also know about this business, is going to change the oil on his van and report back after 100 miles. I'll let you know what he says. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 One of the members of the Tribby group, who also know about this business, is going to change the oil on his van and report back after 100 miles. I'll let you know what he says. He has now done so. He thoroughly drained the old oil through the sump plug, fitted a new filter and filled the engine with fresh oil. This turned black within three minutes of running the engine. In my book that vindicates what the chap at Chelston was saying. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 If there is a lesson to be learnt, it is to raise the bonnet on the forecourt and check your levels before you leave, Honest but silly mistakes can be made. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 If there is a lesson to be learnt, it is to raise the bonnet on the forecourt and check your levels before you leave, Honest but silly mistakes can be made. That's reasonable advice in the generality of situations but hardly relevant here. The point at issue has been the believability of what Chelston's service manager said. It has taken an independent test on a similar vehicle to confirm its credibility, which was not something practicable there and then. As it happens, and you were not to know this, it was dark by the time I got my van back and the place was closing down. Simply finding someone knowledgeable to ask would have been hard. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 RogerGW - 2010-04-04 3:56 PM One of the members of the Tribby group, who also know about this business, is going to change the oil on his van and report back after 100 miles. I'll let you know what he says. He has now done so. He thoroughly drained the old oil through the sump plug, fitted a new filter and filled the engine with fresh oil. This turned black within three minutes of running the engine. In my book that vindicates what the chap at Chelston was saying. Roger Hi Roger can you confirm that this chap's van is relatively new like yours? Obviously older engines tend to breakdown oil more quickly. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerGW Posted April 5, 2010 Author Share Posted April 5, 2010 Hello Vernon, A good point. It's a year older and has done about 10,000 miles more than mine. Same engine -- the 2.3 litre Multijet (which is based on an old Ford/Iveco lump, I believe). This person had a similar experience to mine on its first (dealer) service, which is why he now does it himself. Roger [Correction] I've just seen a later post -- his DIY service was at 15,480 miles, roughly 6,000 more than when I had my dealer service done. Little difference, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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