caravans- airs

[Syd]

Oh, for goodness sake you complainers, why cannot people live and let live, everyone is on HOLIDAY not in the office fighting a teritorial war.

Have you all forgotten how to enjoy your miserable lives.

 

Oh!! that man over there has got half an inch of someone elses pitch, lets hang him.

[Tony Jones]

PJay - 2009-12-04 7:06 PM

 

Tomo

Perhaps "the caravanner" thought you should have been in the "lories only" part? We MH's are not lorries , probably classed by the UK Service stations as Caravans? maybe we cannot park in service areas?????

 

We need to be quite clear on this: legally, in the UK, a motorhome is a CARAVAN. If caravans are banned, so are we. If there's "caravan parking," we can use it. If your house has a "no caravan" covenant," that means "no MH" too.

As soon as we cross the channel, however, our vehicles undergo a magical transformation. Drive off the ferrry, and you're a CAR, can park anywhere a car can, and any bans on "caravans" don't apply to you anymore.

 

That distinction is the source of a lot of the misunderstandings.

But - vive la différence!

[Hazy Baby]

We thought we had seen it all on aires until this year when travelling lazily south through France heading to Carcassonne - eventually! - we stayed on a lovely aire beside the River Lot at Boisse Penchot. Turned up about 5ish with a couple more 'vans in situ - 8 spaces in all being available. There were signs saying quite clearly Camping Cars only. So imagine our surprise and slight trepidation when about 15 motorbikes turned up about 10.00 pm and started erecting tents on the grass in between the parking spots. Their bikes filled several of the parking bays! French bikers of course!! Anyway they chatted away loudly until about 11.30 pm, we resigned ourselves to a noisy night but then suddenly it all went quiet and we heard not another peep until engines revved up about 7 next morning!

We breakfasted in peace and then were on our way. How widespread this is with French bikers I don't know. Anyone else experienced them using aires?

 

[Brian Kirby]

Tomo3090 - 2009-12-04 6:33 PM ................ I did have pointed out to me on the services at Hilton Park in September by someone in a caravan that I was parked in a "caravan only zone" in a motorhome! I just said OK and ignored him and his disapproving gazes for the next 20 minutes until he drove off. So it's not only motorhomers who claim "landing rights" to a rest area!

As Tony said, on UK motorway services areas (which are private property) motorhomes are classified as caravans.  I do not know what legality this designation has but, being private property, I guess the services operator has some delegated rights to make, and enforce, their own rules - in the interests of maintaining good order.  In other words, you are a caravan because they say so!

Legally, a motorhome is not a caravan, because legally a caravan is merely a trailer: no more, no less.  A motorhome is classified as a car, albeit it is recognised as being a special kind of car.

We once stopped at a motorway services and, because all the car parks were full, and I thought the caravans area was reserved for trailer caravans only, we headed into a 90% empty coach park.  Half way through our lunch a very nice car (caravan: coach!) park attendant arrived and gently advised us that if we remained there, as we were not a coach, he would clamp the van, and we would then have to pay a fine before we could leave.  So, I asked him, where should we have parked?  In the caravan park, of course, he said.  But, I countered, this is not a caravan, because it is not a trailer.  I know, he said, we have this problem all the time: so far as the site operators are concerned, your vehicle is a caravan.  OK I said, we'll finish our lunch and be away shortly.  No, he said, if you stay, I shall have to clamp you, you must move now.  So we did!  Funny old world, ain't it?  :-)

[Andy_C]

Brian Kirby - 2009-12-05 10:56 AM

Legally, a motorhome is not a caravan, because legally a caravan is merely a trailer: no more, no less.  A motorhome is classified as a car, albeit it is recognised as being a special kind of car.

 

The definition of a caravan that is most widely used in the UK is the one in The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, which states that a caravan is " ... any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted ..."

 

Quite a bit of other legislation, when referring to caravans, will indicate that that term 'caravan' is as defined in The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act.

 

I'm not sure that the term 'motorhome' has any legal status in the UK.

 

Andy

 

 

[John J Thompson]

Andy_C - 2009-12-05 11:12 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2009-12-05 10:56 AM

Legally, a motorhome is not a caravan, because legally a caravan is merely a trailer: no more, no less.  A motorhome is classified as a car, albeit it is recognised as being a special kind of car.

 

The definition of a caravan that is most widely used in the UK is the one in The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, which states that a caravan is " ... any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted ..."

 

Quite a bit of other legislation, when referring to caravans, will indicate that that term 'caravan' is as defined in The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act.

 

I'm not sure that the term 'motorhome' has any legal status in the UK.

 

Andy

 

 

I agree with Andy's interpretation.

 

I wrote to the motorway services after a reported clamping incident. I received a reply from Moto head office. My outfit Motorhome and trailer, weighs in a over 6 ton and measures over 10 M. I asked where I should park. They advised me to park with the caravans if possible but otherwise to park with the HGVs.

 

I keep this letter handy in my Map Book so that if I am challenged I can produce chapter and verse for them to read.

 

I was however told that I could not sleep in my Motorhome in the HGV area as the HGVs carried dangerous substances. I wonder what the difference is between a lorry driver using his cab bed and me using mine?

 

My Motor Caravan is PHGV so it is restricted to using areas marked as HGV only. Most car parking areas on the services are marked no HGVs.

 

One problem with Motorway services is the one way systems used. They usually have cars pulling in first then trucks and busses then the caravan area so if you risk going to the caravan bays and they are full your next move is out through the forecourt back onto the motorway. So I now just use the HGV park when I stop.

 

Another problem with Motorway Services: I use LPG for heating, but there is rarely a pump convienient to the HGV area as they locate these pumps in the car forecourt and then quite often in a difficult to access with a large vehice area.

[rupert123]

My motorhome is classified as a private light goods vehicle, body type is a motor caravan. that is what is in the log book so would think that is the legal definition. When on private land the owner can define it as what they like so not much point in argueing about it. In Germany many Stellplatz now allow caravans, in fact have signs stating this. As I rarely use aires do not worry much about who does but would still be annoyed if I arrived to find space taken up by a caravan and no room for me. Would I bother to dispute it with the caravan owner, well no how are you going to move them anyway, their will be another one down the road or a campsite.

[Brian Kirby]

OK, OK: yes, I was being a little too glib!  My plea in mitigation is I was trying to keep things simple.  I should have clarified that my reference was to motorhomes when being used on public roads.

The technical requirements applicable to motorhomes under the Construction and use and Lighting Regulations are those applicable to cars.  To quote the Department of Transport booklet P15 on importing into, and registering motorhomes in, the UK, "When considering applicable technical standards, these (motor caravans and ambulances) are classed as a special kind of passenger car; a different classification may be applied for other purposes, such as taxation."

The "log book" will say it is PLG (or PHGV), but that is not its legal designation, that is it's taxation class.

For land use purposes the definition quoted as relevant to caravans would, logically, apply to motorhomes - but we weren't contemplating opening a caravan park in a motorway services area, just where, in these locations, they may be parked.  Vehicles (mainly cars) towing trailer tents, camping trailers, and other types of trailers that provide no accommodation at all, also tend to be directed to service area caravan parks, because the presence of the trailer makes them difficult to accommodate in the regular car park, rather than because they provide accommodation.  As stated, service areas are private land and the owner may designate as he chooses.

However, when a caravan is being towed on the road it is just a trailer, not a special type of vehicle, and when a motorhome is being driven on the road, provided it is not over 3.5 tonnes MAM, it is treated as a car (taxation class apart).  Fun, innit?  :-)

[John J Thompson]

Brian Kirby - 2009-12-05 2:52 PM

- but we weren't contemplating opening a caravan park in a motorway services area, just where, in these locations, they may be parked. 

I can remember in the 70s & 80s some service areas catering for overnight caravanners in the UK, but the easy route was taken when they had travellers setting up encampments. They closed the places rather than take action against the abuse. I remember the one particularly at Kinross.It is time there was provision for caravans and Motor homes on Motorway services again. We are now getting some enlightened authorities setting up UK Aires now.

[Basil]

Our V5c (logbook) states that ours is a Motorised Caravan with taxation class PLG. Don't know how that fits in, I would say that means it is a caravan even though it is not a trailer.

 

Bas