Damp Luton - help please!

[phantom]

Hi all

noticed last year that there was possible dampness in the Luton and had it checked by acompany during the habiatation check. Seemed fixed but noticed it again this Autumn. Had it checked yesterday and the damp metre was nearly off the scale (by a different firm). Told that the luton edging would have to come off on both sides and be resealed as well as the windows be resealed costing probably £120 each side. Does this sound a fair price?

 

What concerns me most is the dealer said for the damp to have got so bad would have been well over a year and that the previous dealer should have spotted it and produced a damp diagram - all I got was a bill for the habitation check. Should I speak to the previous dealer - unsure and would appreciate any advise.

 

Thanks Apps

[Guest JudgeMental]

I would say a bargain as long as they use correct sealent...

[Brian Kirby]

Not sure what this means: "Seemed fixed but noticed it again this Autumn".  Did they carry out work to fix the problem, and does your invoice say that they did?  If so, plainly you paid for the work, they failed, and you may have grounds for complaint.  If they won't put right properly what they failed to fix before, you may even have grounds to sue.  However, if you have nothing in writing to say what they did, and have no other proof of them carrying out such work, you will have no grounds on which to base a complaint, or a case.

£120 per side sounds a very good price.  However, to avoid any further mistakes or misunderstandings, get them to spell out what they will do in a written estimate, and check it is all done before you pay.  Be aware that you may face additional cost if, when they remove the trim and windows, they discover rot or other presently invisible damage.  Their estimate can only cover what they can foresee, not the unforeseeable.

[davenewellhome]

If the van in question is the one in your avatar picture the nit looks like a Highwayman which means its probably around 20 years old. Frankly if its been suffering water ingress for more than a few months then its likely to need more than just resealing of the joints. The major point of water ingress on these vehicles is the screws which hold the edging trim on at the edges of the roof and the window hinges. Sadly they used plated steel rather than stainless steel and the rust away leaving a perfect funnel to feed water right into the middle of the timber framing members. Replacement/repair of these members is a huge job potentially, depending on how far the damp has penetrated. I had to completely reframe the nearside rear quarter of my highwayman and reskin the entire coachbuilt body due to this problem.

 

D.

[Rayjsj]

Dave,

I remember the article,with you 'reskinning your Van' . I notice your avatar shows an Iveco panel van now, did you convert it yourself ?

My 21 year old Autosleeper Talisman suffered from 'rusted screws' too,

I have steadily gone around them all replacing with A4 stainless (not too expensive when bought in bulk from my local yacht chandlers) had to drill out lots of the old ones though. The only leaks in the luton came from the two 'postbox' windows on either side, both now resealed with Sikaflex 512. Another weak spot on 'older' vans are the MK rooflights (sikaflex works around them too).Good luck with the luton leaks. Ray

[davenewellhome]

Hi Ray, yes I've converted (well thyself.at is to say I am converting) the Iveco myself. We needed more space and carrying capacity.

 

D.

[phantom]

Hi all

thanks for your advice.

My van is a 1994 Elddis Autoquest 320d on a Talbot body.

 

Did not get a written description of the work done just an invoice stating it had a habitation check but the new dealer has much more professional forms. Certainly a learning curve with these things. Only been at it a couple of years.

 

How necessary is a full habitationi check each year. Could it be stretched to every two - heard somepeople have never had them.

 

Thanks Apparition

[boxer1]

I bought my van in 2006 and never had it damp checked. I regret that to day. During the summer I found a damp place in the roof. Got it repaired by a so called expert, three weeks later found to be still leaking. They tried to repair it on three different occassions over two months but failed. The leak had caused the internal side panel to swell. Best doing the work myself so I repaired the roof, good job not leaking anymore. took the panel of. What I found was a total mess. The main timber frame were rotten and had to be replaced. Because of the the timbers condition I believe the van had been leaking from the time I bought her. The dealer told me that she had been checked. Before I started the work I went to a local hire shop and hired out a damp meter for £8. I checked the van all over and the only reading I got was around the damaged panel. I always visually checked the vehicle but now know that when you see the damp it is to late and the damage has been done. How many other vans are out there in the same condition. I know that if I change my vehicle I will be taking a meter with me, dealer or private

 

Boxer

[Rayjsj]

I think that 'water ingress' will always be a problem on 'older' non-monocque coachbuilts, the adhesives and sealants have come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years, only poor workmanship(when it happens) is causing leaks in more modern vans (10 years or less) now, the older adhesives however dry out and become brittle, so even a diligently assembled Van could suffer a leak. so, a damp meter is a useful tool when checking out older vans.

(it's the first thing a dealer gets out when checking a van for part exchange).

Personally, I am dissapointed that Monocoque construction has fallen out of favour with manufacturers of coachbuilt vans. they being very few now. perhaps that helps to explain the popularity of Panel van conversions.?? Ray

[phantom]

Hi all

still suffering with the problem and need advice on which dealers to choose especially if any of you are local and have knowledge of these people. Don't want to pay a lot of money and not have the work done properly.

Does anyone have any experience with damp in the luton?

 

 

Dealer One - M & E Motorhomes Lisburn - quoting approx £500 for repair work and rust work with a car bodywork specialist that they use. Suggested bathroom sealant in bad rust spots but told by Dealer two that this was trapping the water in the luton - now very confused.

Recommended by excolleagues who opened a seperate business.

THis dealer suggested I hadn't received a proper damp check in my habitation check without a diagram page. 3 miles from home.

 

Dealer two - Tomlins Belfast. verbally quoted approx £300+ depending on luton window stability. This dealer buuilds motorhomes and horse boxes proffessionally and has massive warehouse for completing work. Would do all the work together rather than have an car body specialist look at it.

13 miles from home.

 

Really appreciate any help - Thanks Apps

[Brian Kirby]

Is your van presently under cover?  If not, I suggest you get it under cover as soon as possible.  Clearly it is still leaking, so more water is entering and the damage is spreading.  If you can get it into a dry barn or similar, do so.  What you need to know, is how much damage the damp has already done. Getting the leak stopped is the easy, relatively cheap, bit.  I would suggest stripping out everything that you can easily remove from the Luton.  All bedding plus the mattress, and if possible/necessary the bed base, so that you can clearly see what is going on.  Try pressing the internal wall lining with your fingers, or with a bradawl, to see of it feels spongy.  Feel around for damp, and look for mould or discolouration or obvious water.  Anywhere in the vicinity of external panel joints, and around the window/s.

To me, your Belfast firm seem to be talking sense, and the Lisburn mob talking crap!  But I have only your descriptions to go on, and plainly I cannot see the van.  However, suggesting bathroom sealant to deal with rust might be what you'd tell a three year old, but not an adult, so I think they were trying you out to see how big a mug you are, on the basis that if you believed that you'd believe anything else they told you!

Belfast, at 13 miles, is virtually next door, so what's the problem with them?  They seem to have all the skills in one place, but you'll have to be prepared for expense.  The alternative, if you have your van safely in the dry, is your own DIY skills.

I hope I shan't sound rude, but you have an old van that is now of relatively low value.  If the damp has resulted in extensive rot, which must remain a possibility until it can be ruled out, the repairs will be very time consuming.  The materials will not cost that much, but the time will.  Your own time, on the other hand, is more or less free, and I think this is classic DIY territory.  Careful removal of what has been damaged and its replacement with new, sound, materials (mostly all you will need is some half way reasonable timber of the same size as the originals, a lot of patience, perseverance, and some decent tools) should be within the reach of most "mature" home owners who have ever done a bit of DIY around the house.  If that isn't you, I think now may be the time to turn over a new leaf!!

The only bits I think might be really difficult to source will be the new internal lining materials, and that is where your Belfast firm may come in handy, as they may be prepared to sell you the relatively small amounts you are (hopefully!) going to need.

Don't be intimidated by it.  Vans of this age were made in what was more or less a cottage industry, and were largely built by hand (most still are :-)).  Despite what the brochures said, the skills involved were not at brain surgery level, and anyone with reasonable sight and mobility, who is prepared to teach themselves to use a saw (hand, circular, or jig!), a sander, a chisel, and a measuring tape - with the possible addition of a router, should be able to tackle the basics of a repair quite satisfactorily.

I'm emphasising this because there is the possibility that if you find the damage is extensive, the cost of professional repairs could exceed what it is economically worth spending.  If you are unsure what you're getting into, strip out the luton as above, take the van to Belfast, and offer to pay them to assess the extent of the damage and the possible repair costs - on the basis that if it is extensive/expensive you will take the van away again and have a go yourself.

Whether you later try removing the external joint trim/cover mouldings (probably aluminium extrusions) and re fitting them with stainless steel screws (not brass!!) and new sealant, you can decide later.  It is time consuming and messy, but again, nearly all the cost will be in labour and not materials.

However, back to the beginning - get the van into the dry quick!!

Hope this helps.

[boxer1]

I was able to repair my vehicle and I have very poor DIY skills. I did as explained by Brian and took all the bedding out frames and all. Check the side panel and if you find that they are soft to the touch then you have problems that need repaired. I used a sharp stanley knife to cut the panel out. When I found the rotten frame timbers I replaced them. If you contact the motorhome repair shops they should have new panel for your van.

I was unable to get my van into a shed so I purchased a shet of plastic and covered her, no hurry then.

[phantom]

Thanks guys

your advice is priceless and so appreciated!

 

I should have said dealer one suggested the sealant as only a temporary measure until we got it fully repaired. Didn't mean to make it sound like his long term advice. Does it make him sound any better?

Also dealer two was the dealer who did the habitation check last year and didn't alert us to the seriousness of the matter. However it didn't get really bad and noticable until after the awful August weather we had here in 2009.

In a quandry!

I have no access to shelter and my husband and I both work fulltime so really think we might need an expert on this one. I'll show the DIY other half your post and see if he thinks he might give it a go.

 

Thanks again Apps

[phantom]

Hi all

your ongoing advice has been great.

 

On advice I asked about the worst case scenario of needing internal boards and frame replaced (very likely) and was quoted, by the company I like, about £700. The other company in Belfast never got back to me with a quote

 

My question is, especially to those with older vans - how worth it is it to repair if the van is worth less than £10k. Will it start needing more money than sensible to keep it on the road?

We have no hope of trading up at the moment and probably for years to come - it would be back to camping if we sold her.

 

Thanks so much

Apps

Really need the words of experience here as I'm awful attached to our van and worried my judgement is clouded.

 

[mike 202]

It is not so much the age of the van that counts, as much as how you like it. Lets say that the repairs only last for 3 years then your £700 will equate to just £235 per year and that is good value for some happiness and good times.

Remember:-- "you can be stopped from future trips BUT no one can take memories away from you".

 

£700 may mean more to some than others, but in my humble opinion go for it because every day that passes cannot be replaced.

 

Happy trips Mike :-) :-)

[Brian Kirby]

I agree, but for slightly different reasons.  Your van is presently damp.  Almost any dealer will damp test it when offered it, whether for a cash sale or a trade in, and will in all probability use the presence of the damp to either turn down your van, or to sharply drop the price.  Either way, your van be be worth a lot less than the £10,000 you mention.  On the other hand, if you spend the £700 on repairs, you get a van you can continue to use and, provided the repairs are carried out carefully so that they aren't a dogs dinner, your van will continue to be worth £10,000.  If you do neither, and you can't DIY, the deterioration will continue to the point at which the repairs are more costly than the van is worth.  If you are satisfied with the firm's workmanship therefore, getting the repairs carried out does seem the best option. 

All I would ask, is whether that price is a fixed price, within which they take all the risk should the repairs turn out to be more extensive, or whether it is subject to fluctuate depending on what they find.  If the latter, have they given you a genuine "worst case" estimate (as they say), intended to reflect the greatest extent of work they can envisage, a "ball park" estimate that can go either way, or a "starting price", that may be sufficient provided everything goes as expected but which, if it changes at all, will increase?  Provided you, and they, are completely clear what the £700 is intended to cover, and that you are comfortable with that arrangement, I think, in truth, the decision pretty much makes itself as above.