waste water (pvc)

[magbrin]

We have external waste water pipe from our sink (the only waste water as we do not have basin or shower), which we drain into an old water bottle before disposal. We chose this to save space and weight in our bespoke panel van conversion.

 

I have just read on Vicarious website that to stay on Aires you have to have an internal waste tank. Can anyone tell me if this is REALLY necssary, and if so how it is policed. Also do other sites also require internal systems, at home or abroad?

Thanks

Magbrin

[Guest JudgeMental]

so you stop for lunch it is pi$$ing down and you have to flaf around with a bucket.....

 

Bit of an odd decision not to have a waste tank...why not at least fit a small tank. the tank is slung underneath so no space saving and the weight of waste either transported in a portable container or a tank would be similar, so I just don't get it.

 

your question re Aires, I am not sure, but not all have facilities. I know for taxation purposes a camper has to have certain facilities, bed, fridge etc...but I don't know if this extends to tanks. so whether yours is still a commercial vehicle or a camper I don't know...have you windows? If it looks like a camper you would probably be OK

 

 

[magbrin]

Sorry not to conform with the norm! However the 'van is taxed as a motorhome, and has windows. The question remains - do we need an internal tank? If so I am sure we can adapt our current system, but would prefer not to.

As for the rain ............... continental rain, however heavy, is not a problem to us - at this time of year in the highlands of Scotland clear days are often frosty and the precipitation on wet days is as likely to be sleat or snow as rain, not to mention the wind that normally accompanies it!

Magbrin

[Lord Raindrop]

A bottle as such is a certain shape; a tank can also be a certain shape. So what is a tank, a container for liquids, leave the bottle at home and use a container, metal or plastic and you're legal.

 

Sounds like you're sensible user.

 

 

[nomad]

Hi Magbrin, I think that the rules are that you do not just allow waste to run out onto the ground. It has to be dumped in the place provided.

Colin

[Brian Kirby]

magbrin - 2009-12-10 11:53 AM We have external waste water pipe from our sink (the only waste water as we do not have basin or shower), which we drain into an old water bottle before disposal. We chose this to save space and weight in our bespoke panel van conversion. I have just read on Vicarious website that to stay on Aires you have to have an internal waste tank. Can anyone tell me if this is REALLY necssary, and if so how it is policed. Also do other sites also require internal systems, at home or abroad? Thanks Magbrin

Might it not be worth posing this question to Vicarious Books, and asking them where they got the information?  There is no advantage to them from making the claim on their own behalves, so I would assume they must be quoting from somewhere.  I'm sure they would say.

[aljen]

Hi Magbrin

 

I dont know what type of vehicle you have converted, but it wouldnt take up much space fitting even a smallish tank underneath and although this will help storing waste for a while it will always need to be emptied. I find it just as easy at times to drain into a bucket every couple of days rather than move the van to the dump when its full, and its usually raining when it needs empting anyway. I would think most aires will have a facility for dumping grey waste, but more experienced owners will i am sure advise better than me

 

Alan

[magbrin]

Thanks for thoughts, so far!

 

aljen - 2009-12-10 4:47 PM

 

Hi Magbrin

 

I dont know what type of vehicle you have converted, but it wouldnt take up much space fitting even a smallish tank underneath and although this will help storing waste for a while it will always need to be emptied. I find it just as easy at times to drain into a bucket every couple of days rather than move the van to the dump when its full, and its usually raining when it needs empting anyway. I would think most aires will have a facility for dumping grey waste, but more experienced owners will i am sure advise better than me

 

Alan

 

It is a MWB Renault Master. Alan. It does not have space underneath for spare wheel, so not sure what space for water container. Perhaps someone out there has one, and could advise.

 

Magbrin

 

Magbrin

[Mel B]

Hi Magbrin and welcome to the nut house!

 

I've just been having a look at the Vicarious books website link:

 

http://www.go-motorhoming.co.uk/all-the-aires.htm

 

I can't find any mention of you having to have a 'fixed' water tank, where have you seen it state this please?

 

The only 'worry' I would have with having a 'free-standing' waste tank is that it might get nicked in the night, other than that I wouldn't be bothered!

 

 

 

[davenewellhome]

Hi Magbrin, I too have a bespoke converted panel van and no fixed waste tank, totally by choice. I carry a caravan style gazunder in the boot which simply slides under the waste outlet. I chose to do it this way because it means I have no smell problems and as we're often on site for up to five days without moving (at motorhome shows) it means I can empty the waste tank when it needs it without having to resort to bucketing it away 5 litres at a time.

 

D.

[Guest Tracker]

Regardless of rules etc surely it is a matter of consideration for others not to leave a trail of grey water wherever you stop and/or camp be it site, beach, car park or anywhere else?

 

And this applies equally to those horrible people who drive away after 'forgetting' to close their waste tank drain tap - you know the one - the one that shouldn't have been open in the first place. Look at any site entrance on any morning about 10.00 am to see the trails!

 

Whether this means using an external bucket and the age old principal of 'bucket and chuckit' or creating a small holding tank either internal or external and let it out somewhere either more suitable or more discreet is a matter of personal choice?

 

No need to buy an expensive tank after all it is only for small quantities of used water. You could use a small camping water container, or a recycled plastic container from a factory or similar or whatever comes to hand easily? A tap if you need one can be cheaply bought at any wine or beer making shop - as could a barrel or container and flexible plastic tubing? It should not be too difficult to string it up under the chassis with either cable ties which are amazingly strong or if all else fails - bailing twine!

[dshague]

you can get a tank here if you wish http://www.caktanks.com/CAK_Water_Tanks.htm

[Lord Raindrop]

I see no reason for standing or fixing any bottle / tank outside as long as you control what you do. Keep life simple.

[magbrin]

Lord Raindrop - 2009-12-10 9:11 PM

 

I see no reason for standing or fixing any bottle / tank outside as long as you control what you do. Keep life simple.

 

My view exactly!

 

Tracker - althogh we are relatively new to the band we are considerate and do not leave trails behind us!

 

D - can you let me know where we could get this Gazunder, please? It sounds better than a water bottle!

 

Mel B - http://www.vicarious-shop.com/home.php?cat=12 " Essentially the camper must be equipped with a toilet, a self contained inboard water system (including waste-water), cooking facilities and sleeping area."

 

I really would appreciate some experiences of Aires - what is acceptable, what is the policing, and ultimately is there a chance of being chucked off if we contain our grey waste externally.

 

many thanks

Magbrin

 

 

 

 

[davenewellhome]

You can get the caravan style gazunder tanks from most caravan accessory shops or try CAK tanks.

 

D.

[GypsyTom]

magbrin - 2009-12-10 10:09 PM

Lord Raindrop - 2009-12-10 9:11 PMI see no reason for standing or fixing any bottle / tank outside as long as you control what you do. Keep life simple.

My view exactly!Tracker - althogh we are relatively new to the band we are considerate and do not leave trails behind us!D - can you let me know where we could get this Gazunder, please? It sounds better than a water bottle!Mel B - http://www.vicarious-shop.com/home.php?cat=12 " Essentially the camper must be equipped with a toilet, a self contained inboard water system (including waste-water), cooking facilities and sleeping area."I really would appreciate some experiences of Aires - what is acceptable, what is the policing, and ultimately is there a chance of being chucked off if we contain our grey waste externally. many thanksMagbrin

Please don't worry about Tracker. You'll learn that he finds it hard to enter any debate without taking a nasty little dig at someone or other. (See his extra-ordinary profile!) What many of us find strange is that he claims never to stay on camp sites but at the same time he moans about the goings-on of people who use them. Very odd!

[Derek Uzzell]

There seems to be widespread misunderstanding among UK motorcaravanners over what a French "aire de services camping-car" is. Some people seem to believe the term translates to "motorhome overnight parking"; others that rules and regulations such as one might find on a campsite's notice-board also relate to 'aires'.

 

An aire de services camping-car is just a facility provided for motorcaravanners to service their vehicles' 'life support' systems - essentially a place where you can take on fresh water and empty waste tanks. The 'aire' may comprise just a stand-pipe tap and a ground-level drain, or be considerably more sophisticated. The 'services' may be free or there may be a charge. (Of course, should you so wish, you might choose to use such an aire for alternative purposes, like washing dishes or clothes - I've even seen an aire's water tap been employed to irrigate a vegetable garden.)

 

Parking facilities close to an aire de services camping-car are very often just general purpose vehicle parks, with no specific regulations regarding what vehicle types can or cannot use them. In such cases, daytime or overnight parking will not be exclusively dedicated to motorcaravans. Take Ducey (Dept 50) as an example: this small town close to Avranches has an aire de services camping-car on its northern outskirts. The motorhome service-point is close to one entrance of a vast gravelled area that has no signage regulating what vehicles may park there or for how long. Lots of motorcaravanners stay overnight there, sharing space with heavy lorries and the occasional car or caravan.

 

In the relatively rare cases where parking has been dedicated to 'camping-cars', there will be no specific regulations as to the design of such vehicles. If you own (to quote the Vicarious Books website) "a panel van with a mattress and a camping stove in the back", or a super deluxe £150K gin-wagon with all the trimmings, both should be equally acceptable. The French aren't rule-bound like Brits - they prefer 'savoir vivre'. It's not the camping-car you drive that matters, it's your behaviour that's important.

 

As far as acceptable behaviour is concerned, common sense should always prevail. Using an external vessel to collect waste-water is perfectly acceptable, draining the water directly on to the surface below the motorhome (or allowing your external vessel to overflow) is not. Decanting the contents of a fixed toilet tank into a bucket and then tipping the bucket into an assigned toilet-emptying drain is just about acceptable (though certainly not attractive!), emptying a fixed toilet tank into a rainwater drain is definitely not.

 

This is a section taken from a Pilote Owners's Manual:

 

THE MOTORCARAVANNER’S CHARTER

 

1) When motorhomes are used as means of transport, the traffic regulations applicable to the vehicle-category into which motorhomes fall (private vehicles) must be met.

 

2) When motorhomes are used for habitation purposes, the regulations applying to the local population at the places visited must be respected.

 

3) In town centres or in urban areas, choose parking spots:

- that are away from crowds of people.

- that do not obstruct visibility or business trade.

- where it is clear that the motorhome’s size will not obstruct traffic-flow.

 

4) Similarly, when living in a motorhome in such places:

- do not obstruct the area outside the vehicle.

- do not cause any nuisance to the local people.

- do not monopolise public areas.

- to avoid possible problems, do keep pets under proper control.

 

5) Waste-water emptying must be done:

- at appropriate locations and never close to housing, water-courses, or cultivation.

- it is a legal offence to empty ‘black-water’ (WC contents) into rain-water drains.

 

6) During journeys, all drain taps/valves must be firmly closed.

 

7) To allay suspicions, even drainage of fresh-water should be done discreetly.

 

8) It is always worth having the means to locate where drainage can be done in proper conditions.

 

9) Rubbish-smells must be prevented by using waste-bag disposal points.

 

By respecting these common-sense principles, everyone will be able to benefit fully from the many pleasures that motorhome ownership provides.

[magbrin]

Thanks a lot, guys!

I have a lot to learn, but I am learning all the time or becoming more confused, I'm not sure which!

Time spent in our van is a back to a simple, peaceful life - no televison, no oven or microwave, no sat nav, etc. and as already mentioned, no shower. I intend to keep it that way! (The exceptions are my trusty computer & digital camera - although much of our planning and recording is pen & paper)

[Lord Raindrop]

For those who contemplate buying a 'Gazunder' make sure you visit the correct shop !

 

Originaly known a Chamber Pot, it went under the bed. In discrete circles it was described as "Wot Goes Under The Bed" = 'Goes Under' = 'Gazunder'.

 

When staying overnight at a local Inn, the landlady would inform you "If used then do not replace under the bed, for it will rust the springs"

 

 

[hallii]

There are some parking areas used as informal campervan stopovers which are tolerated by the local authorities and regularly patrolled by the local police. I have stayed at such places in France Spain and Portugal.

 

In general, you can park there, stay a night or two, but if you do as much as put a step or mat outside then the police will regard this as camping and that is not allowed. Nor is washing, waste water disposal anywhere, including rainwater drains or watering the local trees, washing the vehicle on so on.

 

On a typical Aire as found in, say, France, there would be no problem using a small water collection container. On many it is common to see chairs, BBQs and even awnings.

 

What I am trying to say is, there are places where anything outside could attract the attention of the local police, but in general just do what the French campers do and you won't go far wrong.

 

Geoff

[Guest Tracker]

magbrin - 2009-12-10 10:09 PM

Tracker - althogh we are relatively new to the band we are considerate and do not leave trails behind us!

 

My apologies Magbrin - I did not intend to imply that you did leave a puddle or a trail and perhaps I could have worded it better? Sorry.

 

We've used dozens of Aires in France Germany Scandinavia, Spain and very rarely see anyone at all in authority.

Sometimes they are free, sometimes there is a coin or token slot machine, sometimes someone will call for payment and sometimes they are free to use but a coin or token is needed for water.

They seem to work by cooperation and common sense and our experience is, much like sites, the vast majority of users are sensible normal people who do not abuse anything and everyone gets along just fine for the few hours they are together.

There are sometimes signs written in the local language with some instructions but if we don't fully understand them we try and work out the basic local rules and abide by them.

We've never had a problem on an Aire either with any one in authority or with any other camper - apart from one or two noisy and plot greedy users on one or two rare occasions.

For us it is a relaxed, carefree and casual way to travel and explore and I commend the idea to the house!

[Mel B]

magbrin - 2009-12-10 10:09 PM

 

Mel B - http://www.vicarious-shop.com/home.php?cat=12 " Essentially the camper must be equipped with a toilet, a self contained inboard water system (including waste-water), cooking facilities and sleeping area."

 

Magbrin

 

Ah-ha - I was looking at the Aires book page, not the campervan guide page! It would be interesting to know where they got this 'definition' from though. But whatever, I pretty much would say, as others have, just be courteous, do what the French do (the sensible ones!) and enjoy yourself.

 

Regarding an external water container - my only concerns would be, as I said before, that a 'proper' waste container like Dave mentions, would be liable to being nicked the first night you used it and also they are fairly bulky too – below are some pictures of the types of containers you can get.

 

If you go to eBay and type in ‘waste water’ then click on search, then to reduce the number of results, click on ‘motorhome parts and accessories’ and you’ll see what’s out there.

 

I would think something like a 5 litre old de-ionised water (or some such like) container would suffice for your needs and be easy to store and replace if necessary.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

I do have to wonder why anyone would want to faff about with portable or external containers or buckets that have to be stored when on the move when a built in tank with a simple tap saves all that faffing about - although I can see the advantage if you tend to stay on site for several days at a time - especially if you have an awning - and need to empty the waste water - but then again you would need to have a removable fresh water system as well to clutter up the van when on the road and that's a real inconvenient convenience unless you have a lot of external storage?

 

Ah well - each to his own I suppose?