heraldbank Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Can anyone tell me why the rear springs of our Nuevo are against the stops, even with a lightly loaded van ? Has anyone fitted air suspension assistance to this vehicle or a similar Sevel chassis ? Did it improve the ride? The vehicle drives nicely but my back tells me that the ride could be softer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 It is impossible to know for sure without knowing which chassis you have. If the base chassis was a light one and it has had a lot of conversion dropped on it, possibly up-plated without the necessary suspension modifications you should take all of your stuff out of it and return it to your dealer for an explanation. If they argue ask your local MOT test centre whether they would pass it with the bump stops in contact with the springs an I expect they will say no. Once you have established the GVW of your vehicle you should also take it to a weighbridge to establish how much payload you have to play with. Probably less than you think. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Herald and welcome to the mad house. :-D Basically you need to do what Euroserve says, until you have established what your basic van weighs you won't know how much payload you have, depending on what model/age your van is this payload can vary quite a lot. Each accessory that has been added will add to the basic weight of the van, eg a wind-out awning alone can add around 20kg, a bike rack another 8kg etc. It would help if you said what model/year you have so that we can give more advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 On both the last and current models of the Boxer the 'bump stops' are rather more than that being an integral part of the rear suspension (note their length ). Even unladen many conversion have only an inch or so of travel before the springs contact the buffers. These vehicles trade a comfortable ride for excellent handling. To avoid guesswork visit a weighbridge and check that the axles are not overloaded. If all is in order but still unhappy with the ride consider having air suspension fitted as it gives a more progressive action than the standard set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 heraldbank I note from your earlier posting that your motorhome is a current model Nuevo with 130PS motor. If it's the overcab version (Nuevo Classic ES), then it will have a 3500kg Peugeot Boxer chassis: low-profile Nuevos use a 3300kg chassis. Specification details (including payload) are given on the Auto-Sleepers website. Received wisdom seems to be that the latest 'X/250' Boxer/Ducato chassis is stiffly suspended producing a hard ride, but it would be worth knowing what tyre pressures you are employing. As George suggests, shortage of clearance between the 'bump stops' on a motorhome's chassis and rear axle does not always indicate a fault. See: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16985&posts=18 that relates to rear-suspension air assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 David, If it's clearance away from the bumpstops you are looking for, and a softer ride ? I fitted Auxillary rear spring assistors, they are reasonably cheap (£150 'Mad' assistors) the bumpstops are removed as part of the fitting procedure, and handling improved,I managed to fit the Kit in a couple of hours and I am not a mechanic. I would think that Air-ride would do the same,but i have no experience of that. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 We've had spring assistors and air-ride. On our Elddis Autoquest 320 (H reg) it had a bit of a saggy bottom when we got it so we bought some spring assistors and hubby fitted those, they did a very good job indeed. Our current van, a Rimor Sailer (7.14m long) has quite a large overhang. We bought it in the February and after a couple of trips abroad we decided to have the air-ride assistance fitted at York show in September that year to improve the ride and also make it more comfortable to drive - our previous van had been a stumpy little Rapido 709F (5.53m with a pert little bum) and we certainly had noticed the difference between them. Since having it fitted we have not regretted it for one minute, we can now drive normally round corners (it not at a snails pace), roundabouts are much easiser, and it is much less affected by the wind and passing trucks etc, also we don't have to worry about grounding it's bum on anything! :$ We could have fitted it ourselves but it only cost £35 for them to do it and, as it turned out, it was £35 well spent at it took them double the time it normally would and was a pig to do with it being a twin rear-wheel drive. At the time I took photos to see what the difference was. The first photo shows our Rimor without the air assistance, the second with it, followed by close-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Mel B - 2009-12-19 8:14 PM "Snipped a bit" At the time I took photos to see what the difference was. The first photo shows our Rimor without the air assistance, the second with it, followed by close-ups. At first I thought ""Those bikes must be extremely (was going to use a another word) heavy "" as they were off the bike rack at the back ! :D Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldbank Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Lots of useful information thanks. It sounds as if the long stops are part of the "spring" system and I guess are supposed to act like springs. For those of you who asked, our van is a 2007 AS Nuevo low profile with the 120 bhp engine and 6 speed box. When we first weighed it loaded for out first trip it weighed 3100 KG with 1660 KG on the rear axle. It is on the 3300 Kg chassis It weighs less at the moment because everything is out for the winter, even so the springs touch the stops. It sounds as if those who have fitted air assistance have been pleased with the result so I guess we might try it. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxer1 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 My van is also down at the back and sagging like my chest. I was thinking of fitting an extra leaf to the springs and replacing the shocks. If I was to fit the air suspension would I have to change the shocks. Not sure of the cost for leaf springs and shocks but air suspension would be about £350. If I had to then fit shocks it would be a bit costly. Boxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 When we had the air-ride put on our van we didn't touch anything else, they just removed the original bump stops and put the air-ride bags in their place (with their brackets). Unless your shock absorbers are up the creek already there shouldn't be a need to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 boxer1 As your motorhome is 11 years old, it might well be worthwhile replacing its rear shock absorbers at the same time that you modify its rear springing. However, the only way to know whether this would be 'essential' or just a 'good idea', would be to remove the shock absorbers and test their current effectiveness. Adding air-assistance should be preferable to adding an extra spring, as at least you would then have the option of adjusting the pressure in the air-bellows so that the 'strength' of the rear springing matched the load being placed on it. You could also adjust the height of your motorhome's rear to suit you. If you just add extra metal springing, you'll be stuck with whatever spring strength results and have no means to alter it. If you are lucky the strength will be somewhere near: if you aren't then you could end up with really stiff rear springing and a very harsh ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 heraldbank There will be little benefit fitting air-assistance to your motorhome's rear suspension if its present firm ride is due mainly to overly-high tyre pressures. For a 1660kg rear-axle load and 215/70 R15C tyres, 55psi should be plenty adequate - anything above that will just harden up the ride unnecessarily. The normal reason for fitting air assistance or supplementary springs is because it's obvious that the motorhome's existing springing is inadequate to cope with the load being placed on it. The give-away sign is usually that the vehicle has diminished ground-clearance at the back end, which I assume is not the case with your Nuevo. Your motorhome seems to have a similar arrangement to my Transit-based Hobby, with long rubber 'buffers' between chassis and rear axle and acting as supplementary springs. These buffers act in concert with the rear leaf springs, which is what air-bellows will also do. Consequently, there's no guarantee that replacing the buffers with air-bellows will improve the ride. I fully accept that improved ride quality could well result from fitting air assistance to a motorhome that is crying out for stronger rear springing, but I don't know of anyone who has deliberately fitted air assistance just to obtain a softer ride on a motorhome that doesn't really need firmer springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Replacing the hard bump stops with adjustable air springs will almost certainly improve the ride quality as well as giving the other benefits of being able to adjust rear ride height and load handling abilities. The addition of air assistance can be a contributory factor in the uprating of GVW too but the fitting of air assistance will not automatically give you more payload. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxer1 Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Thanks Derek. When the weather gets warmer I will take the shocks off and check them. Boxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 heraldbank There's a longish Ducato-related piece on http://www.vanlocator.co.uk/van-for-sale-marques.php?van=31 The Ducato's rear suspension is described there as having "flexible side blocks", which seems to suggest that your Nuevo's 'bump stops' are an integral feature of the vehicle's suspension design, not merely providing last-hope protection against severe overload. Don't overlook the obvious fact that your motorhome's cab-seats are closer to the front wheels than the rear ones and that ride harshness can just as easily come from a vehicle's front end as from its rear. Once again, we're back to tyre pressures and it's not uncommon for 72psi(front axle) to be recommended when 'camping car' tyres are used on a Ducato. I don't know what Auto-Sleepers advise nowadays, but I vaguely recall a long thread (on an earlier incarnation of this forum) that revealed that recommending super-high pressures used to be the company's policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 There's a useful motorhome-suspension-systems article by John Wickersham in December 2008's MMM. The section on fitting rear air-assistance units has a photo of the large concertina bump-stops that need to be removed and that (presumably) are of the size and type fitted to current- and previous-model Nuevos. (By the way, I'm well aware that A-S Nuevos are built on Peugeot Boxer chassis, but the rear suspension will be the same as on equivalent Fiat Ducato models.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 We had the pre X250 Nuevo and the only indication of tyre pressures was the Peugeot sticker on the door frame which specified around 80 psi which is what they were pumped up to. I was not keen to reduce these without specific documented advice as I assume that at a random roadside check the authorities will go by whatever is there. However I contacted AS who stated in writing pressures of (from memory) 55 front 60 rear. I reset to this which gave a much better ride and carried their spec in the van. So thanks to AS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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