Vernon B Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I know this was a hot topic a long time ago but things change, so can anyone direct me to guidance on current regulations please? I'm particularly interested in what the situation is for towball mounted carriers. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sorry not sure...But If a THULE tow bar rack and it has a CE kite mark? Thule are German? and will probably have to have a TUV pass as well....... I am thinking of one of these for next van so interested in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-12-21 6:36 PM Sorry not sure...But If a THULE tow bar rack and it has a CE kite mark? Thule are German? and will probably have to have a TUV pass as well....... I am thinking of one of these for next van so interested in this thread. I though Thule were Swedish, am I wrong Judge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-12-21 5:36 PM Sorry not sure...But If a THULE tow bar rack and it has a CE kite mark? Thule are German? and will probably have to have a TUV pass as well....... I am thinking of one of these for next van so interested in this thread. Hi Judge If your looking at that type of carrier you might want to check this out http://www.roofbox.co.uk/scripts/rbvehsel4.php?query=AR2602&vptype=&emulate=accgen&qty=1 - not Thule but still of German manufacture In the mean time can you explain what a TUV pass is all about V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 TUV is a internationally recognised certification system It signifies that the organisation has established and applies a quality management system for the manufacturing control of the quality of their products up to a EN ISO standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 It is a german safety standard http://www.tuv-fs.com/ctpolicy.htm Yes the rack in link looks decent enough, but Thule are well established in this market with a lot of models. if it is better quality all well and good...but how do you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worky Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 hya Judge - just to let you know that I have a Thule EuroClassic G5 bike carrier, which if memory serves me right, cost about £250 plus another £420 for the towbar fitted. They're rated as being able to carry up to 50kgs but when I first fixed mine on I stood on it and bounced up and down and it didn't move at all (and I'm no lightweight) I think they're a great piece if kit and well worth the money. Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Vernon B - 2009-12-21 5:03 PM I know this was a hot topic a long time ago but things change, so can anyone direct me to guidance on current regulations please? V As far as I am aware the only regulation is that the bike/s must not protrude beyond the width of the vehicle. peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 And don't they have to have Reflective square mounted on them too ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 worky - 2009-12-22 8:56 AM hya Judge - just to let you know that I have a Thule EuroClassic G5 bike carrier, which if memory serves me right, cost about £250 plus another £420 for the towbar fitted. They're rated as being able to carry up to 50kgs but when I first fixed mine on I stood on it and bounced up and down and it didn't move at all (and I'm no lightweight) I think they're a great piece if kit and well worth the money. Clyde That's a helpful endorsement Worky - I take it you've not only bounced up and down on it but used it in the prescribed way long enough to prove it's effectiveness. I say that because if you sat down with a clean sheet of paper you'd be unlikely to come out with a design that placed a load of 50kg on a single point like the towball. For the Judge's benefit - thanks by the way for the TUV explanation - the Roofbox Company also offer the Thule version and give a detailed explanation of their opinion of the pros and cons of each carrier including a rating. Interesting the STRADA comes out better in their view, but is also a bit more expensive. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Thanks Vernon, In fact the more I look at the STRADA the better it looks :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worky Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-12-23 9:57 AM Thanks Vernon, In fact the more I look at the STRADA the better it looks :-D hi Judge - did you notice that the Strada has a max payload of 45kgs against the Thules 50kgs - don't know if that will make much of a difference with the weight of your bikes but may be something to consider in the unlikely event of something happening and you have to make a insurance claim. But as I said earlier mine took my weight and I have used it quite a lot and it is rock solid Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 We have two wisper E bikes. approx 21 kg each without the batteries so loading will be a concern. present van has garage so not a problem...I want one for the smaller van eventually, but mainly for the car, so that we can get to more intersting areas out of London to ride. there is nothing like a real world recommendation. With these racks most worry regards how strong they are........ so will probably stick with the THULE thanks to your advice :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter42 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rayjsj - 2009-12-22 5:12 PM And don't they have to have Reflective square mounted on them too ? Ray It doesn't have to be reflective, but the Bike(s) have to carry a board displaying white and red diagonal stripes to the rear. Can be purchased at any motorhome dealers and, probably, any branch of Halfords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 FWIW I have used a Pendle bike rack for a number of years .Started on the back of the Discovery to off set the throw of the spare wheel, then I put it on the Kontiki, Advantage was that the spare wheel offset meant that I did not have to unscrew and turn the handle bars. The bikes hang from the bars, rather than sit on a rack. It took for 4 bikes (about 65kg) and also left the towball free for use. (Not that I would recommend carrying bikes and towing at the same time, unless you are sure of the o/all weight the tow hitch can take.) The modern version is http://www.pendle-bike.co.uk/shopping/Tow-Ball-Mounting-4-Bike-Rack.php Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 God only knows what the "rules" might be here in Spain, but so far as I can see no-one seems to take a blind bit of notice. Nor do the Police either. Bikes tied on with string, with ropes, bikes tied to each other. Bikes tied on the roof. Sometimes you will actually see a proper bike rack. Only about 1 in 100 ever showing the daft red stripy board thingy .....there's a somewhat different culture down here with regard to what the public might regard as "petty" regulations....they simply ignore them, and the Police do to. There's a well known Spanish phrase, often quoted by anyone if you have the temerity to point out some breach of minor law here...roughly translated, and accompanied by a fantastic shoulder shrug, it means "Laws made in madrid are for madridians" (they don't much like central Government so don't take much notice of what Madrid says in most other regions unless forced to). Probably got far more chance of being hit by a falling pig than gettting pulled/fined in Spain because your bike rack isn't TUV approved. (But, that's not to say it can't happen of course: My ex-business partners Grandfather had the most wonderfully unusual death, having survived all of WW2...he was then killed by a pig which fell from a balcony in Venice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 BGD - 2009-12-23 11:32 PM Only about 1 in 100 ever showing the daft red stripy board thingy .... ) It's not that daft, it shows other road users that you have a load that protrudes beyond the rear of the vehicle & that your rear lights are not the end of the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 There's a section in the CC's "Caravan Europe 1" handbook about Transportation of Bicycles in Spain. As far as I'm aware the advice is still current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 If you had an accident in Spain, and you didn't have the reflective squares, I'm sure your insurance company would love to find out that your vehicle was not ' road legal ' in that country. Good excuse not to pay out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Derek Uzzell - 2009-12-24 9:13 AM There's a section in the CC's "Caravan Europe 1" handbook about Transportation of Bicycles in Spain. As far as I'm aware the advice is still current. Thanks for this reference Derek I had assumed it must be there but couldn't find it until your post prompted me to take another look - and perhaps just as well! As far as the CC's sources are concerned, quote:- "Spanish regulations stipulate that bicycles may be carried on the rear of a vehicle providing the rack to which the motorcycle or bicycle is fastened has been designed for the purpose ... and the rack does not rest on the vehicle's tow bar ..." Not only would this regulation rule out the use of the Thule towball carrier we have been discussing here but it would also appear to exclude any form of cycle carrier mounted on the tow bar (like the Pendle) and also motorcycle/scooter carriers. Unless we are prepared to rest our case on "BGD's Law" AND avoid Madrid at all costs, it seems many of us might have problem here ... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderbirds Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Can't comment on the use of bike carriers in Spain but can comment on the Atera Strada. I have one which I use on my car and motorhome (though not in Spain yet) and it is fantastic. It appears expensive compared to Thule but when you add "extras" on the Thule to bring it up to spec. it costs more. Also the quality is outstanding. It fits easily in the boot of our Honda Jazz. I use it on friends cars as the numberplates exchange easily. I have no link with anyone who makes, imports or sells this item but think it is wonderful "design classic". Regards, Wanderbirds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 worky - 2009-12-22 8:56 AM hya Judge - just to let you know that I have a Thule EuroClassic G5 bike carrier, which if memory serves me right, cost about £250 plus another £420 for the towbar fitted. They're rated as being able to carry up to 50kgs but when I first fixed mine on I stood on it and bounced up and down and it didn't move at all (and I'm no lightweight) I think they're a great piece if kit and well worth the money. Clyde Just a minor word of caution regarding this test method. It is likely the cycle carrier is limited to 50Kg because that is an increasingly common static vertical load limitation for car mounted towbars. For vans it would doubtless be greater: look at the rating plate on the towbar itself. However, it is fairly unlikely to exceed 100Kg, with many being 75Kg. 100Kg equals approximately 16 stone. Bouncing up and down on the towbar (even via the bike rack :-)) may not shift the rack, but it just may overload the towbar mountings if the stated limit there is also 50Kg! Yer bike rack may well stay attached, but the whole towbar may fall off instead! Just a thought, mind. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worky Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Brian Kirby - 2009-12-24 5:14 PMworky - 2009-12-22 8:56 AM hya Judge - just to let you know that I have a Thule EuroClassic G5 bike carrier, which if memory serves me right, cost about £250 plus another £420 for the towbar fitted. They're rated as being able to carry up to 50kgs but when I first fixed mine on I stood on it and bounced up and down and it didn't move at all (and I'm no lightweight) I think they're a great piece if kit and well worth the money. Clyde Just a minor word of caution regarding this test method. It is likely the cycle carrier is limited to 50Kg because that is an increasingly common static vertical load limitation for car mounted towbars. For vans it would doubtless be greater: look at the rating plate on the towbar itself. However, it is fairly unlikely to exceed 100Kg, with many being 75Kg. 100Kg equals approximately 16 stone. Bouncing up and down on the towbar (even via the bike rack :-)) may not shift the rack, but it just may overload the towbar mountings if the stated limit there is also 50Kg! Yer bike rack may well stay attached, but the whole towbar may fall off instead! Just a thought, mind. :-)towbar fitted by Towsure and has "plated" downweight of 130kgs max which is plenty for me and the bike rack . The bouncing up n down bit may have been a very slight exaggeration but the fact it took my weight (14st), and stayed firmly clamped to the towball, I thought was pretty impressiveClyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worky Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Vernon B - 2009-12-24 3:52 PM Derek Uzzell - 2009-12-24 9:13 AM There's a section in the CC's "Caravan Europe 1" handbook about Transportation of Bicycles in Spain. As far as I'm aware the advice is still current. Thanks for this reference Derek I had assumed it must be there but couldn't find it until your post prompted me to take another look - and perhaps just as well! As far as the CC's sources are concerned, quote:- "Spanish regulations stipulate that bicycles may be carried on the rear of a vehicle providing the rack to which the motorcycle or bicycle is fastened has been designed for the purpose ... and the rack does not rest on the vehicle's tow bar ..." Not only would this regulation rule out the use of the Thule towball carrier we have been discussing here but it would also appear to exclude any form of cycle carrier mounted on the tow bar (like the Pendle) and also motorcycle/scooter carriers. Unless we are prepared to rest our case on "BGD's Law" AND avoid Madrid at all costs, it seems many of us might have problem here ... V Just had a look in the Caravan Europe 1 and there's no mention in that edition of the resting on towbar bit only "the rack should not compromise the vehicles stability". As you quoted it states "bicycles may be carried on the rear of a vehicle providing the rack to which the motorcycle or bicycle is fastened has been designed for the purpose" As the Thule towball mounted rack has been specifically designed for this purpose I would have thought it would be legal. Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 Hi Clyde You don't say what edition of Caravan Europe you have there but in both the 2005 and 2009 editions the phrase "provided the rack does not rest on the vehicle's tow bar ..." is certainly there. I was hoping for some more comments on this because I found the word "rest" rather ambiguous. Bearing in mind that the regulation appears to cover "vehicles" in generally (including car and caravan combinations) as well as motorcycle carriers I wonder if it is possible that "rest" could mean using the towbar as additional support, rather than the primary means of attachement, in situations where the towbar is already carrying some considerable load. It may be that this has arisen through translation but if the regulators had intended to ban Thule ball mounted carriers I would have thought the word "attached" would have been used. In a similar vain I found the phrase "designed for the purpose" a little vague. After all I could design my own carrier - "for the purpose of carrying a cycle" - but I'm not a qualified engineering designer. Surely a more robust requirement would have been to insist upon some form of safety certification like the TUV mentioned earlier? I guess the bottom line is that it's down to the individual copper on the ground but it would be nice to get some well formed clarification on this matter - not least because there could be some insurance implications. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.