4x4 drivers

[nightrider]

Poor 4x4 drivers can't do right for doing wrong, a letter in my local paper last night accused 4x4 drivers of being smug while they were sat high up in their cabs sailing through the deep snow while everyone else was stranded.

[donna miller]

We get heaps of grief from a neighbour who believes that because we drive a 4x4 (Freelander), we are destroying his childrens planet, killing the polar bears blah blah blah. His tree hugging wife even named us in a petition to the local paper complaining about 4x4s, bear in mind we live in the valleys of South Wales, our village is on the highest point if the heads of the valleys at nearly 1500 ft above sea level, and we tow a 2 tonne trailer regularly for work purposes, so hardly a fashion acc.

 

Guess who was knocking our door at 7am yesterday pleading for a lift into his works, which is on the same estate as our factory, as his boss had told him that if he didn't come in he wouldn't get paid.

 

Guess who didn't get paid yesterday. *-)

 

After all, you wouldn't give a recovering alcoholic a pint would you.

[CliveH]

Ah! - the anti 4x4 brigade so easily demonstrates that it is envy that drives them - nothing else - just envy.

 

On our local news last night it showed a more positive aspect in that a 4x4 driver who could not get into work was ferrying ambulance guys about because there vehicles could not make it.

 

It was a very positive piece for a change.

 

I only have a 4x4 because I tow a TA. But it does mean that we are one of the few people that can get out of our road. So we too are doing our bit and getting shopping lists for a couple of the elderly people that live nearby.

 

If there is one good thing about bad weather - it does deflate the Anti 4x4 numpties!!

 

(lol) (lol) (lol)

[spospe]

Got an apology from a Disco driving member of our club yesterday saying that he could make the committee meeting because of the snow. I got there in my wife's Yaris no problem. Chicken hearted 4x4 drivers ;-)

[donna miller]

spospe - 2010-01-07 11:46 AM

 

Got an apology from a Disco driving member of our club yesterday saying that he could make the committee meeting because of the snow. I got there in my wife's Yaris no problem. Chicken hearted 4x4 drivers ;-)

 

Yes, but he lived 15 miles away, and the meeting was in the back of your garage. :D :D

[michele]

 

 

 

 

Clive ...Ah! - the anti 4x4 brigade so easily demonstrates that it is envy that drives them - nothing else - just envy.

 

Come on Clive Envy ? I wouldnt envy a 4x4 got better things to do can buy one if we want one so its sure not money ..nope not for me .

 

However in saying that its not for me its for others and I really dont mind at all . I am happy with the choice we have chozen . The one thing I would say is I have noticed recently that even 4x4's dont stop in this weather I do wish they would slow down the lady nearly went clean and stuffed it into the back of me the other day I looked in the mnirror and saw her face haha I think she coloured her knickers ..Slow down love great at pulling and helping people but even they have limitations at stopping and sliding . :D

[Klyne]

CliveH - 2010-01-07 10:58 AM

 

Ah! - the anti 4x4 brigade so easily demonstrates that it is envy that drives them - nothing else - just envy.

 

On our local news last night it showed a more positive aspect in that a 4x4 driver who could not get into work was ferrying ambulance guys about because there vehicles could not make it.

 

It was a very positive piece for a change.

 

I only have a 4x4 because I tow a TA. But it does mean that we are one of the few people that can get out of our road. So we too are doing our bit and getting shopping lists for a couple of the elderly people that live nearby.

 

If there is one good thing about bad weather - it does deflate the Anti 4x4 numpties!!

 

(lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Clive

 

I agree, we do seem to have been having a more positive time in the press recently. Don't suppose it will last! If the bad weather goes on for much longer we could see a resurgence in 4X4 sales! Or maybe a reduction in tax as we become essential vehicles:-D

 

David

[AliB]

Tuesday evening I followed a Range Rover up a steepish hill. The driver followed the centre of the lane driving on the compacted ice. With the result he spun his wheels and came to a halt. I switched to the far right of road, got my wheels on to the less compacted snow and chugged up in 3 rd gear at about 10mph. You often find more grit right at the edge of the road. I had reduced my tyre pressures which also helps in snow. Felt a bit guilty not stopping to see if the other guy was OK but I knew if I stopped I’d never get going again.

I’ve nothing against 4x4 vehicles, they just seem to cost more for a similar carrying capacity and touring speed than a 2 wheel drive. As I live in town there would be very few trips per year to warrant the extra expense.

What does amuse me is the reaction of other drivers to different vehicles. I drive a Volvo estate, if stuck at a road junction it is typically another Volvo or a BMW who will let me out. Never white van man?

However if I have the car loaded with ladders on top and the back filled with tools I can guarantee a white van will let me out. They usually toot their horn and wave if they pass the other way. A set of ladders is all it takes to join the club.

 

[duffers]

Some people are just natural born oiks

some of them drive 4x4s

some of them don't

 

some people need 4x4s

some people don't - even tho they buy them and clog up towns with them

 

as for winter driving - try putting on winter tyres - they make a difference!

 

:D

[tonyishuk]

Oh to be a fly on the wall to see these Chelsea tractors actualy do not drive that well in the snow *-)

 

Our neighbour abandonded his in the midlle of the cul de sac, how he managed to get stuck in both diretions I do not know.

 

BTW anyone have a giggle at Jermy Clarkson's review of the BMW X5 (4X4) last week on Top Gear ! Seems to have been taken off Ytube (embaressed BMW ??), but is on Iplayer for those that are interested.

 

 

Rgds

[duffers]

AliB - 2010-01-07 2:58 PM

 

What does amuse me is the reaction of other drivers to different vehicles. I drive a Volvo estate, if stuck at a road junction it is typically another Volvo or a BMW who will let me out. Never white van man?

However if I have the car loaded with ladders on top and the back filled with tools I can guarantee a white van will let me out. They usually toot their horn and wave if they pass the other way. A set of ladders is all it takes to join the club.

 

I want to know why I'm invisible when driving a motorhome - why cars pull out in front of me then often slam the the brakes on when they've done so and turn off or just stop

feature of the times - self absorption self centred lack of consideration for others

not just drivers - how many times have you folowed someone into a shop / off an escalator for them to simply stop dead

 

sorry - I was feeling good - cricket was sooooooo tense - I've relaxed over a bacardi and coke :D

[donna miller]

duffers - 2010-01-07 3:22 PM

 

Some people are just natural born oiks

some of them drive 4x4s

some of them don't

 

some people need 4x4s

some people don't - even tho they buy them and clog up towns with them

 

as for winter driving - try putting on winter tyres - they make a difference!

 

:D

 

Sorry duffers, got to disagree with the point you make about them clogging up towns, a Mondeo has a larger wheelbase and footprint than my Freelander, a Mini cooper has a larger footprint than a land Rover Defender, a Merc 230 takes up more space than a BMW X5 or a Range Rover.

You can only clog up space in 2 dimensions, height doesn't come into it, and height is the only way a lot of 4x4s are bigger than family saloons.

 

Got to agree on the rest though. :D

 

p.s. Alib, driving with your tyre pressure reduced might get you out of a bit of snow, but it is illegal and will get you 3 points.

[duffers]

Hi Donna,

Agree with regards to actual size, but I was thinking more about the way the oikish members of the fraternity 'abandon' rather than park their 4x4s

the old joke about parking rules

pram sign = families

wheelchair = BB holders

double yellow lines = 4x4 drivers :D

 

a friend of mine has an Izusu - which kept having electrical problems - it conked on a roundabout - no one offered to help push it out of the way -

was it because of perceived weight issue - or the fact it was 4x4.

It's a shame when people get a bad rep through no fault of their own

[she had 4x4 - lives on a farm up in Cleveland Hills - spend a lot of her time towing trailers] [my ex-sister-in-law had chelsea tractor to take the kids to school in reading - and fulfilled the stereo type perfectly]

 

 

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello.... As a 4x4 owner I just let all of the adverse comments roll straight away.

 

I have what I have because I think it's what I need. It's a bus, with seven comfortable seats, Good for family trips. It's a van, move the seats out of the way, good for moving whatever.

 

It gets me where I want to go with bags of ground clearance, 2 or 4 wheel drive, high and low gears with centre diff lock.

 

There's a/c and heaters for the cab and rear.

 

It will run on bio-diesel.........

 

Oh, t'other car is a 4x4 2 seater "T" top.

 

Dissenters are welcome to their comments, just don't expect me to pay any attention - I can get about safely in this sort of weather and pull others out of slippy situations. :-D

[davenewellhome]

I'm not anti 4X4, some people genuinely need them. BUT, in thirty years of driving I've never owned one and I've never been stuck in snow, mud, ice or any other naturally occurring situation that I couldn't get myself out of.

 

Best car I ever owned for snow driving was a 1971 Austin 1800S, it was fantastic and in 1983/4 (I think) it took me from Telford to Sunderland on a Sunday afternoon in snow that had been falling since 6pm Saturday in 4.5 hours. North Yorkshire the snow was so deep the tow bar was leaving a groove! That car towed stuck 4X4s out!

 

D.

[CAB]

A bit OT but something I hadn't considered...

Our neighbour couldn't get out of our road today in his Mercedes saloon (no problem with our Ducato). He took his wife's small manual Peugeot.

When I teased him about this he said it was his inability to contol the wheelspin on his automatic mercedes which caused the problems.

Is this true of all automatics - do drivers of the "automatic" 3 litre Ducato have similar problems on snow (or even wet grass?)

I believe the Mercedes is a true automatic with torque converter.

Clive

[George Collings]

Land Crabs like Daves and my Maxi had excellent traction due in part to being nose heavy but plenty of suspension travel helped as well. Best of all was a Citroen GS with the engine hanging in front of the front wheels.

 

On Ice a 4 X 4 gets you further up a icy hill but if it stops its a long slide down.

 

I was delivering urgent drugs on Dartmoor in about 1980 and managed to get a police Range Rover through 2 feet of snow but it bellied in 3 feet. A digger dragged us out.

 

More than happy to be retired at this time of year.

 

Both my vehicles are staying put until the thaw or the freezer is empty whichever comes first.

.

 

 

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

Does dropping your tyre pressure give you better traction? The way I see it, a soft tyre will close up the gaps between the treads, thus reducing traction ...... but great on soft sand.

 

Does reducing the psi give you better traction on soft snow? Packed snow?

Ice? Mud?

 

I was pondering if there was any advantage in hammering tin-tacks (studs) into the tarmac? :-D

 

I followed a Metro yesterday. Road was clear of snow, slightly damp, and with some evidence of gritting. He was doing 25mph. I managed to pass him, and continue on my way at 50mph. Probably gave Disco drives a bad name.

 

602

 

602

[ohgrandma]

Perhaps that driver thinks the same as me. Better to get there safely than not at all. I live just off the A 303. and the way some idiots drive on that road, you have to see to believe. In any kind of weather, I might add,

The number of accidents and fatalities is very high. and , most of it is caused by speed and impatience. Ria.

[CliveH]

The 303 is a nightmare Ria. Who on earth thought that a shared centre land was a good idea!!!!

 

It is better now but the bunching of all the prospective organ donors who then go hell for leather when they can use the centre bit is truly crazy.

 

As for dropping tyre pressures 602 - yes this would work on soft snow as it does on sand. BUT - as soon as you hit solid/frozen ground then with under inflated tyres you risk ripping the tyre off the rim.

 

Not something you would want to happen on a road to nowhere at -10 deg C.

 

So I would advice against it.

 

Not least because those vehicles that do regularly travel on sand usually have an onboard air compressor to reinflate the tyres. I carry a little one which costs about £15 from Halfords type places. It runs of the cig lighter and does the job well but it is for emergency use only. In 15 years I am now on my third one. With prolonged use the conrod connecting the piston to the crankshaft breaks.

 

I have no idea why but watching these little things work always makes me smile. You connect them up and they make hell of a racket for such a small item - all the while vibrating to such an extent that they move around of their own accord.

 

Sorry - weird sense of humour. :-D

 

[Brian Kirby]

Well, isn't this fun?  All these folk getting grumpy over who drives what, and whether they actually can!

The main argument about 4x4 vehicles is that a few years back they became very popular as conspicuous consumption status symbols, especially when large and marketed with Porsche, BMW, Audi and VW badges on the front.  They were ostentatiously paraded around the more affluent parts of towns by people who had little ability to drive, or park, them reasonably.  Hence Chelsea tractors.  Makes the farmers around here alternate between chuckling and spitting blood!

What worries me, is that too many of their drivers think they are endowed with magic properties and fail to take note that off-road tyres (I gather some may even have these :-)) have rather less grip on ice than regular road tyres, that even 4x4s only have brakes on 4 wheels, so don't actually stop any better than other vehicles, and they all have two wheel steering, so don't actually get around slippery corners any better than other vehicles.

As to whether they can actually go where other vehicles cannot, I'll add my bit to Dave and George's land crab exploits.  We used to have a Citroen Dyane (2CV with a slightly less utilitarian body) in which I used to commute over the North Downs to Croydon from near Dartford.  North Kent winters were often snowy, and I got quite used to coaxing the little Dyane along the ungritted lanes and over the hills.  I was stopped one morning by a farmer in his Land Rover and advised there was a drift ahead and he had got stuck.  "If I can't get through in this, he said, you'll never get through in that".  I thanked him and he drove off.  So, narrow lane, no-where to turn round, and a challenge - I carried on to find the drift, and where he had turned.  Drift had two deep ruts into it, and was quite long, but didn't look too deep.  Since the Dyane was trundling along quite happily, I decided to see what it would make of the drift.  Being light, and having large diameter wheels, and consequently fairly low tyre pressures, it just puttered over the top of drift where the Land Rover had sunk in.  Dyane 1: Land Rover 0!  And I got to work!  :-)

[donna miller]

Ah yes. all these nostalgic stories from the 70's and 80's about how you drove through the snow in the vehicle of your choice. Well sorry guys, but that was then, and this is now.

From what I can remember of those times, the only 4 wheel drive vehicles available were land rovers that were about as comfortable as sleeping with a fat bloke on a cheap air bed, or a Range Rover, which most people couldn't afford anyway. So you had to make do with what you had, we all did, and we all managed.

Nowadays things are different, we have far more affordable choices and some of us choose to drive a 4x4, it doesn't matter what the reasons are, and nobody has to justify their reasons to anyone else.

 

So many posts from people claiming their little 700cc dinky car sailed past a stranded Discovery driver, really, so what ? Why does it make you feel the need to gloat and claim your car is superior to a 4x4, why then go on to claim that you have proven that there is no need for anyone other than a farmer to drive one.

 

It brings us back to choice,

So let us look at the average motorhoming anti 4x4 driver for a second, in his smart car he got through a drift when a 4x4 got stuck, well done, he has proven that you dont need a 4x4 in the snow.

He and his wife then go and get into their 8 metre motorhome for a weekend away, when I ask him why he hasn't just got a 2 berth converted transit, he will tell me he wants the comfort, the space the ability to do what he wants, when he wants and that's why he chose that particular van ............................................ So it's nothing to do with needing a 4x4, it's about wanting one.

 

Need I say anymore.

 

[CliveH]

Good points, well put - all that I totally agree with Donna.

 

And to add my two penneth - it is not so much about the vehicle - it is about the driver. I remember waiting at the muddy bit of the Land Rover Billing show off road course and wondering why a Discovery like mine was making such hard work of a bit of mud. Admittedly it was axle deep and well churned up but it was easily passable.

 

After a while the marshals squelched over to him and you heard the conversation - The Marshal was not happy.

 

The driver had no idea how to use Dif lock or low range. He just drove into the mud with it all set up for normal road use.

 

After a few choice words (the Marshal was up to his naughty bits in liquid goo by this time and seemed to be slowly getting deeper) the driver was instructed in how to select Dif Lock and low range, put it into second gear and sailed out of the mud with a huge grin on his face.

 

So sometimes it is little to do with the vehicle type, it is the nut behind the wheel that makes a difference.

 

Similarly, I cannot emphasise the importance of tyres - I run on BF Goodrich All Terrains and to my mind there is no better tyre. Just before Christmas when we last had snow, I sailed up Dead Mans Hill on the Forest where a BMW X5 could not make it. Does that make my old Disco a better car than the X5?

 

Not really.

 

Did I have far superior tyres that gave me superb grip - most certainly.

 

He did it in the end by sheer brute force, lots of engine revs and basically putting it on the rough verge to get some grip. Whilst I crawled up the "snowface" without any problem whatsoever to wait at the top to see if he made it OK.

 

A quick thumbs up from him and his second thumbs up and pointing to my Discovery said it all.

 

[davenewellhome]

Except that neither myself, George or Brian have said you shouldn't have a 4X4 if you just want one. If you want one and you can afford it then good on yer I say! My point was simply that in thirty years of driving I've never owned one and never felt the need for one.

 

Sounds more to me like SOME 4X4 owners picking up on the opportunity to justify their choice of vehicle, apologies to anyone who is offended by that but such is life :D .

 

D.

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

My son, who has lived in London more recently than I, reckons that Chelsea tractors are driven by women who are not happy driving in heavy traffic. In the event of an accident, the other car will come off worst.

 

My son is a chauvinist ..... but he might have a point. How many middle aged women, with four kids, do you see riding scooters in the West End?

Self preservation? Survival of the fittest?

 

I drove a mini-cab in South London, in the late 1960s. What I wanted was something that accelerated fast enough to be at the front of the queue at the next traffic lights. But that was then.

 

602