ken nugent Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 We are new to MH touring and intend to tour France and the UK, we are based in France. What should we be aware of i.e. Hidden charges ? Security issues? Where and were not to pitch? What the scallywags & thieves are up to? Gas bottle types and availabilty france v UK? We have information on hook up adapters - thank you. Look forward to your in put. Thanks Ken & Linda N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi Ken and welcome Most of my touring is done in UK now so I can only give you my thoughts(for what they are worth) for this side of the Channel. Hidden charges;- generally on campsites there arn't any. what you see at the site office is what you pay. That figure can vary from about a fiver to £30/40, it's up to you. Security issues;- unfortunatly here and I guess in france if it an't locked or bolted down you have a fair chance of loosing it. Rightly or wrongly I feel if people go to the trouble of joining one or both of the UK camping/caravanning clubs they might not be so light fingered . So I do feel a little bit safer on them. Where to pitch;- In England /Wales you don't have a great deal of choice. It's a campsite or the odd carpark/layby that allows overnighting. there will be various threads on this site and other forums that would give you ideals were to park.Scotland is a bit freer with it's wild camping rules. Gas bottles ;- France and Uk are generally not compatably.Your best bet if you are doing a lot of tooing and froing is to go for fixed bottles on your van and then you can fill up at a Autogas station( with the right adapters of course) in either country. What are the swallywags and thieves up to ;- In both this country and France they are trying to get your money/goodies off you . Always be on the look out. Hope that's been some help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thanks for the info Howard, we will bear it in mind. Regards K & L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Join the Caravan Club and/or the Camping and Caravan Club. Buy a copy of Go Motorhoming from Vicarious Books. They also have others which we have found usefull including the Aires book and all can be found on their website. One thing to bear in mind is that in the UK sites get booked up in the summer so you may need to do a little planning, or just take your chances. Personally I don`t think generally speaking wild camping is something you can expect to do very often in the UK. Therefore some means of transport such as bicycles are a must. We have two Brompton fold ups which are brilliant, they fold up into nothing and you can take them on trains and buses. Just a few thoughts. Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi Ken & Linda - welcome to the mad house! :-> Sites: There are 2 main clubs in the UK, the Caravan Club (CC) and the Camping & Caravanning Club (C&CC). The CC has more sites and is a little bit more 'upmarket' than the C&CC but prices tend to be similar however, there is a difference in how they charge. The CC charge an inclusive price which includes electric hookup (not metered), whereas the C&CC allow you to pay separately for electric (not metered) if you want it. Both clubs, however, have smaller mainly 'private' type sites which can take up to 5 units (caravans, motorhomes etc) at a time and are certified by the relevant club to this effect. These sites (called Certified Locations by the CC, and Certified Sites by the C&CC) can range from a simple field from around £3 a night to over £20 a night for ones with full facilities. All of these small sites must, however, have fresh water, toilet/grey water waste disposal and rubbish disposal as a minimum. Some rival the top rated main club sites for quality. The C&CC also gives a discount for older members on it's main sites (can't remember exactly what age this kicks in at but it might be 55). I'd suggest having a shuftie at both their websites and see which suits you best. www.caravanclub.co.uk www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk In France I'd recommend the ACSI book (with membership card) which is a book giving details of lots of campsites which you can use in the 'low season' which, in many instances runs up into July and starts again at the end of August/early September. These sites will give you a pitch for a nominal fee of 11, 13 or 15 euros a night, for 2 people including electric and 1 dog (although we've never been asked to pay for our other dog yet!). This book can save you an awful lot - on one site a chap in front of us ended up paying 27 euros a night when we paid less than half for the same facilities etc. Pitching In France there are the overnight 'aires' where you can stop for the night, mostly free for for a small fee. These mostly have a services bourne which you can use to empty your toilet/grey waste and get fresh water, and electric, sometimes it is free, other times it may cost a couple of euros. These 'aires' should not be mistake for the 'parking' aires on motorways and ones specifically just for daytime parking. There are a few aires books you can get, one by Vicarious books (in English) called 'All the Aires France' but which doesn't actually include all the aires (!), or a French version (very easy to use) which does, called 'Guide Officiel Aires de Services Camping-Car' - we've used the latter for a good few years an swear by it. Wild camping is possible in the UK but not anything like as easy as using the aires in France (which you have probably heard of). Gas The main gas used in the UK is Calor (butane - blue, propane - red), which comes in various sizes and is widely available at campsites, garages, DIY stores etc. However, unless you intend to spend a lot of time in the UK I wouldn't think it's worth you 'joining' - you pay a fee of £29.99 to 'rent' a bottle, and then pay for the gas fill on top of that, at the end you then return the bottle (hopefully empty so as not to waste your money!) and get your £29.99 back. If you have a refillable bottle it will make it easier but unless you've got one already or will make good use of it afterwards I'd forget it as it will cost well over £200 for a single bottle system. Security Common sense really, in the UK and France, don't park anywhere you're not happy, keep valuables etc out of sight when you're not in the van, and on a night time make sure you take your valuables (keys, phone, wallets, etc) to bed with you (we always hide the under our pillows). If you have an alarm fitted to your van make sure you set it on a night time with the interior sensors turned off so you don't activate it during your nocturnal wanderings! I'd also suggest a stay at one of the UK outdoor shows if you get the chance (there's one every month from February to September) whilst you're in the UK, it will give you a chance to have a good shuftie around at accessories etc for your van and also, more importantly, give you a chance to mingle with other motorhomers and pick their brains - you simply cannot beat this and will find people are only too happy to give you tips on where to visit etc. If you can give us more info on when you're likely to be in the UK/France for your holidays, and if there is anywhere in particular you are thinking of visiting, we can give you some ideas as to what to do, see, stay etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raindrop Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 K&L When you visit the UK and have decided on which area you might like, ask on here for information on sites (and interest) in that area, we can then assist you. There will be forum readers living in all areas who will have good local knowledge. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Mel B - 2010-01-08 8:41 PM Gas The main gas used in the UK is Calor (butane - blue, propane - red), which comes in various sizes and is widely available at campsites, garages, DIY stores etc. However, unless you intend to spend a lot of time in the UK I wouldn't think it's worth you 'joining' - you pay a fee of £29.99 to 'rent' a bottle, and then pay for the gas fill on top of that, at the end you then return the bottle (hopefully empty so as not to waste your money!) and get your £29.99 back. If you have a refillable bottle it will make it easier but unless you've got one already or will make good use of it afterwards I'd forget it as it will cost well over £200 for a single bottle system. In France it's possible to obtain a full refund of the 'rental charge' (la consignation) relating to a French gas-bottle as long as you have the related paperwork. However, that's not the case with UK Calor bottles - the best one can obtain is a 70% refund. See link in paragraph 7 of the following: https://secure.calor.co.uk/ordercalorcylinders/refill.asp An alternative UK supplier of gas-bottles is Flogas. Like Calor, there is initially a rental charge, but it's sometimes possible to avoid paying this if the Flogas bottle is obtained from a builders merchant. Flogas agents won't accept Calor bottles in exchange and Calor agents won't accept Flogas bottles. Campingaz canisters purchased in France can be exchanged in the UK and vice versa. The downside is that Campingaz bottles are small capacity and expensive (per kg of gas) in both countries. The majority of Continental-built motorhomes can accommodate two standard French 13kg steel (propane) gas-bottles equating to 52 litres of gas. It's difficult to generalise on gas consumption, but, if campsites and 230V hook-ups are to be used a lot, then that quantity of gas should last several months. As far as I'm aware, the only French gas-bottle that's designed to be refillable with GPL (Autogas) is Borel's Homegaz container, but it's pretty expensive. See: http://www.borel.fr/index.php/gpl-vehicule-loisir.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raindrop Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 "The majority of Continental-built motorhomes can accommodate two standard French 13kg steel (propane) gas-bottles equating to 52 litres of gas. It's difficult to generalise on gas consumption, but, if campsites and 230V hook-ups are to be used a lot, then that quantity of gas should last several months." I assume you mean standard UK 13kg steel (propane) bottles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Lord Raindrop - 2010-01-09 9:24 AM "The majority of Continental-built motorhomes can accommodate two standard French 13kg steel (propane) gas-bottles equating to 52 litres of gas. It's difficult to generalise on gas consumption, but, if campsites and 230V hook-ups are to be used a lot, then that quantity of gas should last several months." I assume you mean standard UK 13kg steel (propane) bottles No, I think Derek means French, as the French cylinders are a little smaller than Calor - which have a heavy shroud over the valve. Can't speak for them all, but the shroud on my Butagaz cylinder is for transport protection, and unscrews to give access for connection. Once this is done, the cylinder stands about 5cm shorter than the Calor. In some continental gas lockers, therefore, it is possible a 13Kg Calor may foul a "ceiling" mounted regulator.There is a further complication in that some German made vans will not accommodate 13Kg cylinders, as their lockers are sized for the slightly more compact 12Kg German cylinders. Ours is a case in point, and I had to indulge in a little judicious surgery on the gas locker door opening to get one 13Kg Calor in - which is "snug" vertically, plus one 13Kg Butagaz - which was just a bit too corpulent to be squeezed past the installed Calor (and no, it didn't matter which actually went in first, neither could be got through the locker door with the other in place :-)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Roy Thanks for your reply, I had'nt given much thought actually to booking up early in the UK as in france except for July & August you can usually find somewhere easily, I've been told. Thanks again. L& K B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Mel, First of all we would like to say thanks for taking the time to give such a full and interesting reply. We were not aware of the differences of what is on offer from the one site to the next - costs etc. Thanks for that. As we live in france we have seen adverts for the ACSI and were not sure whether this would be beneficial to us, so we may now look further into this. All the best for 2010 Ken & Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks Mike, will do ken & Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Derek Thanks for your reply, I see what your mean about the campingaz prices. We will look at the site you have given. Bonne Annee Linda & Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken nugent Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks for the info Brian, Ours will take a 13kg + a smaller one. The vehicle is a 2003 Fiat Duc challanger which I dont believe is sold in the UK but it is the same as the Chausson. Linda & Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Ken - not exactly a "hidden" charge but if you've not been in the UK for the last ten years or so you'll have to watch out for parking charges - whenever you come to a halt! These may not always be clear so take a good look around for "Pay and Display" signs before you leave your motorhome. With a bit of luck you might have enough left over from the extra £s you're getting for your Euros to cover these costs. Enjoy your visit V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raindrop Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 K&L If you care to send an address via the PM button, I can post you last years 2009 Caravan Club 'site booklet'. It will give you some idea of costs and explain where they are, also lisyed are the smaller CL sites that many of us use. These can be situated in an apple orchard or a working farm with fresh foods produce available. (Note :-: Not necessesary your personal home address, a shop or store or 'Poste' will be fine. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 ken nugent - 2010-01-09 12:57 PM Thanks for the info Brian, Ours will take a 13kg + a smaller one. The vehicle is a 2003 Fiat Duc challanger which I dont believe is sold in the UK but it is the same as the Chausson. Linda & Ken Do you know the regulator-pressure of the gas system of your Challenger? It's probably either 37mbar (suitable for propane gas) or 30mbar (suitable for propane or butane). If (as seems likely as your motorhome is 2003 vintage) it's 37mbar, then you'd be restricted to using UK propane bottles. Historically, UK propane bottles have employed a standard left-hand-threaded male connector and you should be able to get an adapter in France that would convert your present French-standard gas-hose so that it would connect to a UK propane bottle. I'm slightly surprised that your Challenger can't accommodate two large French bottles. If you wanted to maximise the amount of French gas you could carry, then you might be able to shoe-horn in a 13kg + one of the slightly smaller 10kg steel bottles that are now available from French supermarkets. (As you say, the French Challenger motorhome brand is not currently marketed in the UK. Challengers were briefly sold here in the early-2000s, but I was told (though not necessarily believed!) that there is a brand-name conflict and that a UK leisure-vehicle manufacturer owns the marketing rights to "Challenger" for this country.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJo Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 1 Take all the scare mongering on this type of forum with a pinch of salt As most of it is myth The advise too alarming & too in depth for normal understanding folk to take in It don’t matter if you batteries aren’t charging at a precise level & all your wheels are at the correct fraction of pressure or you don’t do precisely the fuel consumption of very one else & your pick the wrong type of gas bottle Life too short to worry about it all You aren’t going to pass this way in life again So get out there and experience life Let your commonsense prevail 2 Yes things will happen problems will occur but remember you aren’t on a moon mission & everything can & you will overcome it You will be surprised at how helpful the other moterhomers & foreigners can be 3 lots of people have gone before you and if it was so hard to go motorhoming no one else would be doing it 4 Let your commonsense & instinct guide you if it looks bad don’t do it For we have camped on motorway airs with no one else on them we have free camped for months on the side of a lake we have used our camper for ski trips & guess what we have survived 5 Take it from me that yes at some point you will break down And you may get broken into But it can happen to you whilst in your own home or driving your car Its what the AA / safes /alarms and locks have been invented for Just go out & enjoy whatever you want to do Life is an adventure So enjoy motorhoming you won’t regret it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Derek Uzzell - 2010-01-10 8:57 AM ........ Do you know the regulator-pressure of the gas system of your Challenger? It's probably either 37mbar (suitable for propane gas) or 30mbar (suitable for propane or butane). If (as seems likely as your motorhome is 2003 vintage) it's 37mbar, then you'd be restricted to using UK propane bottles. ............ Derek, are you sure about this? Ken implies the van was bought in France (where he lives), so it would probably be equipped for French fit cylinder mounted regulators, unless either Ken has replaced them, or there is already a 30mB regulator present. Surely, neither eventuality should restrict him to to UK cylinders, though? He can still buy a cylinder mount regulator for either UK or French cylinders, though, can't he, so could have one of each if required?I agree it seems odd that a Challenger wouldn't take two French 13Kg cylinders. Not knowing when, or for how long, Ken intends visiting the UK, and whether he will go for sites while here (almost obligatory, though) I would have thought two 13Kg French cylinders would be more than sufficient. For Ken's benefit, using sites, site facilities, and mains electricity, we generally get better than three months continuous use from one 13Kg propane cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raindrop Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Andrew, I don't see who you are opposing with your comments. You yourself point quite sternly to all readers that you WILL have a breakdown and you MAY have a break in, with a strong reference to THESE forums. Why? Sorry, I don't see what you're aiming at, I don't see who you're opposing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Andrew&Jo - 2010-01-10 10:45 AM 1 Take all the scare mongering on this type of forum with a pinch of salt As most of it is myth The advise too alarming & too in depth for normal understanding folk to take in It don’t matter if you batteries aren’t charging at a precise level & all your wheels are at the correct fraction of pressure or you don’t do precisely the fuel consumption of very one else & your pick the wrong type of gas bottle Andrew & Jo If you don't like what is said on the forum then please ignore it but please DO NOT dismiss everyone as being scare mongerers, most people on here are very knowledgeable motorhome owners and users and speak from direct experience. There is no need to go over the top with 'preparations', but there is a need to plan and prepare and not put yourself in situations which may cause you trouble unnecessarily - take it from me, it can seriously cause you problems and ruin holidays etc. Enjoy motorhoming and the freedom it brings yes, but do it sensibly. Out of interest, how long have you been motorhoming and what van have you got? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJo Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 6 years & a Burstner 820 I Why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJo Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Oh sorry i also pull a car on an A frame & havnt been stopped arrested or lost it yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJo Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Not opposing anything or anyone just posting a reply with my observations This is a forum & I thought that it give a balanced reflection That it doesn’t matter what happens help is at hand & enjoy motorhoming I remember that my wife was greatly disturbed almost to the point of not going to France with our motorhome after reading the gassing posting & if it wasn’t for Brian Kirby’s investigation & posting that wasn’t myth but based on fact we would have given up our motorhome Now we travel extensively & take our dogs with us Tell me why does it seem to disturb you that other people who have a view may want to post a reply Now can we allow others to reply without Hijacking this posting as most others do (just an observation if i dare suggest & Sorry for offending others before you all post replys ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 But Andrew, Ken and Jo, the original posters, were asking for information, and I think most have merely tried to answer their queries. In doing so, they have pointed out some of the potential pitfalls. Knowledge is power, they say, and I have gained enormously from it over the relatively few years I have been reading and contributing. It is beneficial to know about places or practises to avoid (except the urban myths). It shouldn't put anyone off going, but forewarned is forearmed and, even if the warnings do seem a bit off putting at the time, better that people know what to expect, especially when they are asking, than being left to find out the hard way. I think you're being a little hard on us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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