Harriet Harman

[nightrider]

So Harriet Harman has been punished for her motoring offence, fined £350 plus 3 points on her license...... the word peanuts comes to mind.

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I have no problem with somebody being treated leniently.

 

Provide we all are treated the same way.

 

Driving without due care? I guess we can all be considered guilty of that at some time, by somebody. Its a "catch all". Leaving the scene of an accident is a deliberate act. OK, we might panic, and drive off. I don't expect a Cabinet Minister to panic. Worrying.

 

Question. supose HH had been a middle grade civil servant. Could this episode have affected her career?

 

602

[davenewellhome]

Apparently the incident was not a hit and run as reported. As I understand it she bumped another car while manouvering into or out of a parking space. The owner of the other car was not there but a bystander witnessed it. HH apparently said to this witness, did you see that?.....Yes. Do you know the owner of that car?.........Yes. Do you know who I am?............Yes. After a brief chat she then went on her way. Not my idea of a hit and run accident. How was she supposed to find the owner of the car she bumped?

 

D.

[donna miller]

Yes, not really a 'hit and run',,she hit the parked car whilst reversing into a parking space, however, she was using her mobile at the time of the collision, and it was the owner that reported it to the police, he saw it from his window.

The court dropped the charge of leaving the scene and using mobile whilst driving.

On the surface it would appear that this was to prevent her fom losing her licence as she already had 6 points.

 

The court also failed to take into account her 'ability to pay' when deciding the punishment.

[michele]

Somehow I dont think they would of dropped it for me .

This makes me angry its all bent .

[nightrider]

davenewell@home - 2010-01-10 8:27 AM

 

Apparently the incident was not a hit and run as reported. As I understand it she bumped another car while manouvering into or out of a parking space. The owner of the other car was not there but a bystander witnessed it. HH apparently said to this witness, did you see that?.....Yes. Do you know the owner of that car?.........Yes. Do you know who I am?............Yes. After a brief chat she then went on her way. Not my idea of a hit and run accident. How was she supposed to find the owner of the car she bumped?

 

D.

She left the scene of an accident, and she was allegedly using a mobile phone at the same time.

[nowtelse2do]

The Government work on two sets of laws, One for them, and one for the rest of us.

And if that dose not suit them, they will pass one that does.

Why we have let this country deteriorate so much, I will never know.

Dave

[nightrider]

Iron hard discipline is what you want, a touch of the lash would not be out of order. Or then again you could sentence them to a week in Rossendale :-D

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

In the event of an accident, you are required to exchange the following information.

 

Name and adress of driver.

Name and address of vehicle owner (keeper?)

Vehicle registration.

 

You must stop for long enough to provide this information.

 

If you cannot do this, the accident should be reported to the police within 24 hours. Policeman? Police station?

 

Insurance details must be supplied if demanded, or if anyone is injured.

 

But its many years since I studied that section of the Highway Code.

 

602

[malc d]

nowtelse2do - 2010-01-10 5:00 PM

The Government work on two sets of laws, One for them, and one for the rest of us.

And if that dose not suit them, they will pass one that does.

Why we have let this country deteriorate so much, I will never know.

Dave

Most jobs have their perks. ;-)

[Guest Tracker]

Justice in the UK seems to depend on how much you can afford to pay for an expensive but truly expert defence lawyer?

[malc d]

Tracker - 2010-01-11 12:27 PM

 

Justice in the UK seems to depend on how much you can afford to pay for an expensive but truly expert defence lawyer?

 

 

I would have thought that applies anywhere in the world.

 

 

 

[donna miller]

I think she may have bumped her head in that collision, she is now suggesting that we work on until our 70s and 80s, and that compulsory retirement at 65 will be outlawed.

 

That's all we need, thousands of doddery old gits keeping jobs while thousands of young and willing people queue up at the dole office. She is even suggesting that employers (i.e., me) be forced to allow them flexible working time as well, that will go down a treat with everyone I'm sure.

[malc d]

donna miller - 2010-01-11 2:09 PM

 

I think she may have bumped her head in that collision, she is now suggesting that we work on until our 70s and 80s, and that compulsory retirement at 65 will be outlawed.

 

That's all we need, thousands of doddery old gits keeping jobs while thousands of young and willing people queue up at the dole office. She is even suggesting that employers (i.e., me) be forced to allow them flexible working time as well, that will go down a treat with everyone I'm sure.

 

 

With the greatest respect Donna, are YOU expecting to be a doddery old git when you are 65 ?

( If so, why ?)

...and I thought flexible time was quite common these days at any age, nothing new about that.

 

(.... and of course if you are a teacher, of any age, you can even fit your hours in with the weather forecast).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;-) ;-)

[donna miller]

Malc,

 

Flexible time may be common but it only benefits the employee, when you run a business do you really want your employees coming in at a time that suits them and going home mid afternoon to go to the bingo ?

 

Lets take a trip to scenario city, ( that way people can see a different perspective) and you don't think I'm being disrespectful to anyone. FYI, 2 of my employees are past retirement age, and put the youngsters to shame, but that's a different story.

 

Mr Malc D takes his motorhome to his dealer for repairs to the clutch (no comments about Fiats please) Malc is going away on saturday, so takes it in early monday morning to allow plenty of time. Service manager says "ok Sir, one new clutch and flywheel, special offer £75.00 this week, Fiat guidelines quote 12 hours for the job, and we pride ourself on sticking to labour quotes"

"That will do me" says Malc " I'll be back wed to pick it up".

 

Silly Malc assumes 12 hours should equate to 2 days, even allowing for problems.

 

Wednesday morning arrives, as does Malc, he's getting quite excited about his first ever trip round Europe, everythings paid and booked, just got to pick up the van.

 

"Sorry Sir" says the manager, your van is nowhere near finished ". "YOU SAID IT WOULD TAKE 12 HOURS" shouts Malc,

"Well of course it does Sir, but you see, since Harriet Harman got her own way, Old Bert, (he's 78 you know, and we can't get rid of him )He's the only one qualified to change clutches, and he only comes in for 4 hours a day, by the time he's taken his breaks, washed his hands etc that's half the day gone, so you see Sir, it's going to take at least another 3 days before he's finished, and the best thing is, he's actually done it in 10 1/2 working hours.

 

 

Flexitime for pensioners isn't quite so attractive when you look at it like that is it. (lol) :-S

 

 

p.s. Nah, I'll never be doddery :D

[nightrider]

If the employee and employer are happy with the arrangements made, all well and good. I dont see why someone with a lifetimes experience should be made to retire at 65.

I am officially retired with a state pension and I also have a J.I.B. trade pension and I am still working in a self employed capacity.

It has been said to me many a time that I am taking work off younger people but I beg to differ.

I have a steady garden maintenance round but if I want to increase my earnings all I do is to put a small lineage ad in my local paper.

It is up to the individual to find him or herself work, work can be found if you look for it.

People working past pension age have more than likely spent years paying off their mortgage and now that they are mortgage free they are reaping the rewards (assuming they are fit and healthy) by working.

[donna miller]

Can't argue with that Malc, BUT, we are not talking about people in a self employed capacity.

 

I have had flexible time directives forced on me, I have no say in the matter, and unfortunately, some employees know just how to milk the system to their own advantage, and stuff everyone else. I had a woman employee who demanded that she be allowed to come in at 9.30 after dropping her kids off at school, she then wants to leave at 3.30. Thats 6 hours a day, she is contracted to work 40 hrs, so I told her that to make up the hours, she could either work weekends or come back in at 5pm and work till 8pm on a the afterneen shift. Sounds fair to me, but Oh no, that would interfere with her social life.

 

Does that sound fair to you ? Of course, I wouldn't expect people who don't employ others to ever understand.

[nightrider]

donna miller - 2010-01-11 4:15 PM

 

Can't argue with that Malc, BUT, we are not talking about people in a self employed capacity.

 

I have had flexible time directives forced on me, I have no say in the matter, and unfortunately, some employees know just how to milk the system to their own advantage, and stuff everyone else. I had a woman employee who demanded that she be allowed to come in at 9.30 after dropping her kids off at school, she then wants to leave at 3.30. Thats 6 hours a day, she is contracted to work 40 hrs, so I told her that to make up the hours, she could either work weekends or come back in at 5pm and work till 8pm on a the afterneen shift. Sounds fair to me, but Oh no, that would interfere with her social life.

 

Does that sound fair to you ? Of course, I wouldn't expect people who don't employ others to ever understand.

Donna,

From past experience when your business builds up and you need to recruit staff that is when your problems start, wouldn't want to go through it again, had my fair share of it.

[Syd]

I employ and I believe that employee's should work the hours that the company finds convenient to operate their business within, as dictated by the type of business that they are in, this is mostly between the hours of 8am and 5pm.

 

If employee's finds working between those hours too inconvenient then they should either NOT be working there or working part time but again dureing the hours that the employer deems neccessary.

 

That is how I run my little corner, work hours that suit my business or don't work for my business.

There are ways of achieving this

[nightrider]

Some people seem to think that they have a right to a job, sorry but that is not so, to have a job is a privilege.

[malc d]

donna miller - 2010-01-11 3:35 PM

 

Malc,

 

Flexible time may be common but it only benefits the employee, when you run a business do you really want your employees coming in at a time that suits them and going home mid afternoon to go to the bingo ?

 

Lets take a trip to scenario city, ( that way people can see a different perspective) and you don't think I'm being disrespectful to anyone. FYI, 2 of my employees are past retirement age, and put the youngsters to shame, but that's a different story.

 

Mr Malc D takes his motorhome to his dealer for repairs to the clutch (no comments about Fiats please) Malc is going away on saturday, so takes it in early monday morning to allow plenty of time. Service manager says "ok Sir, one new clutch and flywheel, special offer £75.00 this week, Fiat guidelines quote 12 hours for the job, and we pride ourself on sticking to labour quotes"

"That will do me" says Malc " I'll be back wed to pick it up".

 

Silly Malc assumes 12 hours should equate to 2 days, even allowing for problems.

 

Wednesday morning arrives, as does Malc, he's getting quite excited about his first ever trip round Europe, everythings paid and booked, just got to pick up the van.

 

"Sorry Sir" says the manager, your van is nowhere near finished ". "YOU SAID IT WOULD TAKE 12 HOURS" shouts Malc,

"Well of course it does Sir, but you see, since Harriet Harman got her own way, Old Bert, (he's 78 you know, and we can't get rid of him )He's the only one qualified to change clutches, and he only comes in for 4 hours a day, by the time he's taken his breaks, washed his hands etc that's half the day gone, so you see Sir, it's going to take at least another 3 days before he's finished, and the best thing is, he's actually done it in 10 1/2 working hours.

 

 

Flexitime for pensioners isn't quite so attractive when you look at it like that is it. (lol) :-S

 

 

p.s. Nah, I'll never be doddery :D

 

 

Donna

 

But the flexi time that you are talking about, only 4 hours a day for instance, would be just as bad if it was a young person doing it as an older person - so age is irrelevant.

(I can quite understand that employers don't like flexi time).

 

 

By the way, I am extremely pleased to note that my younger brother 'Old Bert' beat the estimated time for the work by one and a half hours.

 

You can't beat experience.

 

... and although I may be a doddery old git I wouldn't ask how many hours it would take - I would ask "when will it be ready "

 

 

;-)

 

p.s. ..and some advice from one who knows:

None of us think we will get doddery.

 

:-(

[Syd]

Flexitime can be an additional cost to the business because it often means keeping the premises open for longer to accomodate the flexitime workers convenience adding to the lighting and heating costs.

 

Better off without it is my attitude

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

When flexi-time came in at DVLA, there was a core-time (08.30 to 15.30) when everyone had to be present. Office was open from 07.30 to 17.30. If you worked longer you got credits, and working shorter got you debits. There was a limit to how much debit or credit you could accumulate. about 8 hours, I think. There were sufficient staff wanting to work different hours, so that the office was always covered. Some jobs were not suitable for flexytime, so those staff didn't get it. Tough!

 

Credits could be taken as a full or half day taken during the core-time.

 

One obvious advantage to both staff and management was that if somebody missed a bus, they could arrive late without being disciplined. Prior to flexytime, it was not unknown for a "stop-a-bed" to phone in a "sickie". Contrary to popular believe, we disciplined those too.

 

Another advantage was that the Director could give everybody an hour, rather than paying them a bonus. Or give them an extra hour's credit for Xmas lunch, etc.

 

Flexytime is not a licence to wander in and out of work to suit yourself.

 

602