lennyhb Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Just wondering if it's normal when filling with LPG in cold weather to be very slow. On the evening of New Years Day on our way home I stopped to fill up the gas cylinders temperature was about -5, Connected the nozzle pressed the button & nothing appeared to happen. After several attempts reconnecting the nozzle several times without luck the guy from till came out said it's the cold just keep holding the button in. One last attempt connected held the button after about 2 min taken on about half a litre then waited 6/7 min gas then started flowing at a near normal rate. In all took over 20 min to fill up with 30 litres with the bonus of freezer burn blisters on fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 That will probably be because of the amount of Butane in the `Propane`. Too many people have had problems with Autogas for me to change to it. I would like to but I feel it is just another case of the consumer being taken for a ride. Propane should be fine as it has a gassing point of approx -49 degrees (from memory). Butane is -0.5 degrees. I will let you make up your own mind if the problems m/homers have had is coincidence. There is some possibility of water in the forecourt system and you were just unlucky but maybe not. If I do change my setup, it will be to one I can quickly change back in cold weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I was under the impression that autogas in the UK was almost 100% propane where as on the Continent it is a mixture which does cause problems in cold weather. We have always made sure we fill our tank in the UK before going to France and since doing this have had no problem. I will admit to not filling recently so have no experience in the recent cold spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Mr. Grumpy - 2010-01-23 8:10 AM I was under the impression that autogas in the UK was almost 100% propane where as on the Continent it is a mixture which does cause problems in cold weather. That's correct - UK-marketed Autogas is propane with 'trace' quantities of other gasses. (Always a good idea to wear thick gloves when refilling gas bottles/tanks, even when the weather isn't cold.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 As Derek & Mrgrumpy say UK Autogas is 100% Propane all year round, I always try & fill up in the UK for that reason and after that experience already put a spare pare of gloves in the Motohome. So far found nothing but advantages of using refillable cylinders would never even consider going back to exchanging cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 More likely to be your 80% shutoff valve was a bit premature! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 I don't think so as it would have to been on both tanks , the guy at the garage implied it was normal in the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think it is worth mentioning to people who still use bottles but are thinking of changing to Autogas, that the cost side of bottles need not be that much different. I live close to an Energas main depot and when I buy direct from them, the cost is much cheaper. The last time I bought 2 x 10kg bottles and it cost me £28 and coppers. At that time, it was £16 approx for a 6kg Energas bottle from an Energas stockist. He is entitled to run his business at a profit but all stockists seem have the same price. If I had to pay those prices then I would change to Autogas for that one reason. Or possibly go for a woodburner. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 It's not about cost it's the convenience of being able to fill up in any country & just top up the bottles when passing a suppler so you never have any worries. Most people don't have a Energas depot on their doorstep or anywhere they are likely to be camping, with current calor prices re-fillable cylinders recover their cost in about 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 My point was that there are multiple companies supplying gas and each will have depots around the country. I was offering an extra option for people who were not aware of the saving by dealing direct with a depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 I take you point but the gas companies do not except each others cylinders, until there is an international network in all counties that will exchange all cylinders refillable is the best way to go when touring. When we go away we book a ferry have an idea of where we are going but often end up in different country to the one we first thought of, that's the beauty of Motorhoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I agree that Autogas is the only answer when travelling abroad. Having spent most of my working life overseas, I need to discover the UK first and bottled gas is convenient enough for me at the prices I pay. 20 kg of gas should last long enough for me to get home and therefore only use the one supplier. I have an empty 6 kg Calor bottle if needed as well. I agree also that there should be a system of swapping any bottle with any supplier. If the customer is paying a deposit for the bottle in the first place, then he/she should have more flexibility in changing it. BTW, Energas do not ask for a deposit on your first bottle. Many m/homers do not clock up a lot of miles and use it for short or weekend trips. It could well take a long time to recoup the costs in their case. I would also like to point out for anyone reading this who does not already know, most suppliers and stockists can be downloaded on to satnavs as POI`s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeymac Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 My M/H was first owned by a regular traveller to Spain. He told me that filling points for autogas were few and far between there, so he only installed one tank, leaving space for a Spanish exchangable bottle to be added. I haven't worked out the plumbing to add an exchangable bottle, but on the face of it, this sounds to be a belt and braces approach to tackling availability problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Since my last posting, I got the chance to buy a used Alugas bottle of the correct size and bought it. It was an easy job to link the bottles using a tee piece. I fitted all new hoses as I noticed quite a difference in condition betwen the existing hose and the new stuff. as well. It might be worth you examining yours. We are told to do this periodically but how many do? I might add that I also fitted a new valve and regulator for peace of mind I think the use of a refillable and an exchangeable is a good compromise for many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARNYBG Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 BEWARE,When filling LPG tanks /portables in freezing/cold weather,DO NOT FILL THEM FULL......when the gas expands when the bottle starts warming up ,will cause an explosion. I live in Bulgaria at the mo,and theres been quite a few bottles blow,because of being filled to max,then taken home and used indoors,causing bottle to explode under pressure. I always estimate approx 80 % fill,easily done by cost,here a bottle is 20 lev to fill (a big one) approx £9 (so i put 16 lev) and can be done in every service station,straight out of the LPG pumps as they are more common than petrol or diesel as EVERYONE uses LPG in their vehicles,and have been doing so for years and years...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Gaslow and Alugas bottles should automatically shut off at 80% full Non refillables do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 BARNYBG - 2010-02-18 7:55 PM ...I always estimate approx 80 % fill,easily done by cost... This filling method is OK provided that the bottle being filled is empty to begin with. Similarly, as long as the autogas being used is propane, you can work on a 1kg = 2 litres basis - so it should be OK to put 12 litres of UK propane autogas into an empty 6kg Calor bottle and have a safe amount of 'expansion space' remaining. The challenge (and risk) is when part-empty opaque exchange-only gas containers are to be user-refilled. You need to be super-careful to establish by weight how much gas is in the bottle before you refill and it's wise to re-weigh the bottle after re-filling it. It's perhaps worth adding that user-refilling of gas reservoirs that are not integrated into a vehicle (ie. portable bottles) is frowned on in many European countries. Also, that user-refilling of exchange-only gas bottles will invariably be forbidden by the company that 'owns' the bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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