Wild camping France

[Philjp]

I am a radio Ham and Talking to a French Ham i found he was also a motorhomer.He was having a moan about the French Authorities going to clamp down on Wild camping It appears they think it is getting out of hand ...Then i read this article in the Sunday Times travel section top 20 european beaches with ref to Provence: Piemanson beach, Camargue they reported that the authorities are threatening to clear out any wild campers from 2011 in the interest of eco neatness.

[berti]

hi philip

 

we are travelling through france at the moment..

 

there have been lots of long-stayers on aires ..sleeping in ordinairy vans/cars

 

water has been disconnected at most of the aires and any nearby public loos have been padlocked

whether this is due to the severe weather or to discourage permanent travellers we don't know

but we were talking to some french m/homers who said water is being turned off at bornes in oct/nov now

 

cheers

berti

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Philjp]

Travelled through France a lot last year and came across a number of Aires with Travellers on them.Stopped At a site in Langres and there where around 20 Irish on site They had been there for 6 weeks.One came over and had chat it turned out they were from Limerick and were working on a building site. and once that was finished they would move on.I also noticed that a number of Aires Had sprouted Automatic entry barriers Payment on entrance. Enjoy your trip hope you find the Sun soon

[Derek Uzzell]

If you GOOGLE on "Piemanson Plage" you'll realise that this is 'wild camping' on an industrial scale. For example, see the following:

 

http://www.motorhomecamping.co.uk/node/757

 

We were in Provence (not in a motorhome) for a few days in early-November 2009 based at Montpellier. We happened to travel along the road between Agde and Sète that runs adjacent and parallel to the sea. There were, literally, miles of car-parking areas, all of them protected by height barriers. But, for motorhomes, there appeared to be just one small assigned enclosure and a bit of what looked like 'unofficial' dead-end ancient road that a few camping-cars were occupying.

 

I'd recently read a long letter in a French motorhome magazine that bemoaned the lamentable conduct (emptying WC cassettes in ditches, occupying disabled parking slots, pinching fresh water from beach showers, etc. etc.) of the hordes of motorcaravanners that 'squatted' for long periods on the coastal roads near Sète. Interestingly, the letter closed by seeming to argue that, because there were huge numbers of motorcaravanners visiting that area during the summer, and they were currently behaving so badly because the facilities there were limited, that the Sète authorities should radically improve those facilities. Much simpler (and cheaper), I thought, to address the problem at source and prevent motorcaravanners from stopping there in the first place.

 

It's often claimed that France is "motorhome friendly", but "motorhome tolerant" would be more apt. However, there is a limit to people's tolerance and, as far as wild camping and aires 'abuse' are concerned, this tolerance is now wearing a bit thin.

[PJay]

I agree with Derek, on the subject of "Tolerance" it appears lots of campers , french as well as other nationalites, are abusing the "aires", by staying longer. i feel they should be controlled more, and used as overnight stops, only. A small charge would help the local community, and give all a chance to use the aries, for one night if needed. Know the Sete area well (never wild camped), and it is getting overpopulated with wild campers. Surely the old adage that if you spend a large amount of money on a motor home, you can afford to pay to stay overnight, in a safe place, and not spoil the local landscapes. On the very few occasions we have tried to stay on an aire, whilst traveling from A to B, have found most crowded with vans camping, when one is not supposed to put up awings , etc

I expect i have "opened a can of worms" on this subject, as I know lots of you will disagree

PJay

 

[Porky]

This is a question of supervision and therefore money. Good showers well kept sites are of course expensive and not frequented by travellers. But the subject raised is wild camping. The notion that for one night one can stop without causing offence is a far cry from "camping" which suggests staying for long periods. So my view is that wild camping (as apposed to stopping one night) is a recipe for abuse and would encourage unwanted settlement.

So if it is a question of supervision then we should be prepared to pay for the cost of providing a safe, clean and properly serviced place to stop. You only have to see how quickly things changed in Haiti when authority and control broke down. Supervision is also needed to ensure limits on stays are enforced otherwise there will be abuse.

In a nutshell you should get nowt for nowt.

 

Roy Fuller

 

[robertandjean]

As 'vanners who spend five/six months each year in France almost always on aires then we have to say have not seen the "abuse" hinted at by some here. It is not true that stays on aires are restricted to one night, it depends; yes some are restricted to one night, others 48 hours, some 3 days whilst many have no restriction. So on some aires you can stay for say a week without breaking any regulation. (O.K. it is more in the spirit of the aires to move every two or three days, but those who stay longer on ones without restriction are not really abusing the facility). Yes we have seen some people abuse the facilities, by for example tipping toilets in ditches on aires without full services, but this is rare and the last two times it was British 'vanners!

Do not agree with Derek that what authorities at Sete should do is simply stop all motorhomes staying in area; no the French 'vanner is right what is needed is for city to provide better facilities. Good news is that most authorities in France do take the second view hence the ever increasing network of aires (now over 2500 listed on camping-car infos web site). Reason for this is that towns see value of allowing vans to stay in terms of support it provides local shops, cafes etc. Regarding charges on aires then we have no problem with that, as if you read comments on camping-car infos forum nor do many French 'vanners, as it the freedom aires provide to enjoy your van that is important not if a small charge is involved. So not looking for nowt for nowt and towns that provide aires are not giving nowt for nowt, as they know that we 'vanners will spend in town in return for using facility.

So aires are a win/win situation for all concerned and France is still in our view a motorhome friendly, no the most motorhome friendly, country. Given the number of French motorhomes and their predisposition to using aires as against sites then do not need to fear that we will be banned from using aires and forced onto sites, even if some clearly wish this were the case!

[alan]

Hi All

 

Robert and Jean - a really good posting, you echo our sentiments completely. We prefer camping on aires and don't particularly like the organisation of a campsite (all our brood have flown the nest so we do not need child facilities) but, at the same time, do not consider aires as wild camping; both France and Italy have organised stop-overs specifically dedicated for the camping car which is mutually beneficial to the villages and ourselves and, as has been pointed out, the number of aires is growing so the continentals must agree with the aires system. We prefer mixing with the locals in their villages and not on the outskirts in commercial campsites.

 

We are not being cheapskates and have no objection to paying any reasonable charge on the aires, however it would be silly of me not to say that finance is not a consideration, taking 12/25E per day x 3 months is a considerable sum.

 

Alan

[Brian Kirby]

However, the original post refers to wild camping, not to camping on purpose designed sites, be they aires or campsites. 

IMO, it is to be expected that wild camping will become more and more unpopular with all saving the wild campers.  Two reasons.  First, the number of motorhomes increases year on year, and with it the number wild camping.  Second, in response to the nuisance caused by the first, various wild camping locations are being closed off, thereby increasing numbers using the remaining locations.  This, in turn increases, or creates, nuisance at the remaining locations, to which the inevitable response will be further restriction. 

It will not matter that the majority may be discreet in their choices, and hygienic in their habits, because others, undoubtedly a minority, are not.  Who then, should pay for policing unregulated camps, and why should they?  Is it not easier, and cheaper for local tax payers, just to close them down?  It would be nice to see properly regulated facilities being built to replace the wild campers' favourite spots.  From place to place, where the responsible wild campers have brought advantage to an area, that may prove the case.  Otherwise, I think the days of this practise are numbered and that probably, having seen evidence of the aftermath at some popular locations, that will prove to the advantage of the great majority of folk, motorhomers and non-motorhomers alike.

[ike]

Very much agree with Jean and Robert. In our experience  on some aires attached to municipal campsites the community are more than happy for folk to stay for long periods. As has been said we spend money in the local shops, restaurants, bars etc. so the cummunity benefits. We hope to be able to continue using aires for more than one night at a time and will be happy to pay any charges applied. Some people do abuse the facilities eg dumping waste etc in inappropriate places. We have also stayed on aires, paid our fees, and have seen people who were wild camping sneak in when the concierge was absent to empty loos and top up with water. This led on one occasion to the bornes being switched off during those periods. So the honest campers were penalised.

ike

[Tony Jones]

An earlier post mentioned the old chestnut along the lines of "if you can afford an expensive van, you can afford to stay on campsites."

 

First, this ain't necessarily so - we bought our van as a one-off, with legacy money, precisely because our income is modest and we saw this as an investment, making future holidays much cheaper. Are we alone?

 

Secondly, why would anyone willing pay twice for the same facility? With a fully-equipped van, the only "facilities" we need are to fill and empty, for which most of us will happily pay a sensible charge. Sadly though, UK campsites (even many CLs and CSs) are constantly moving "upmarket," providing more and more facilities and increasing their fees accordingly, reducing the options for lawfully using our vans as they were designed.

 

The continental "aires/Stellplatze" approach is to provide just those minimum facilities a fully-equipped motorhome needs, either free (in the expectation of mutual back-scratching) or for a small fee. Many of us long for the UK as a whole to catch up!

 

Sadly there will always be those who just want to sponge off others, and will try to get away with the kind of behaviour described in some posts on this thread, and in some of the worst-hit places the only answer may be a ban. But to start saying that the answer is for everyone to use "proper" campsites misses the point of a motorhome.

 

Tony

 

[hallii]

I use the Aires, I also "wild camp" in the true sense, never staying more than one night. I have stayed at many small and large towns and cities and have never had a problem.

 

True, my vehicle is a little less noticeable than some, but I like to think that a little care in choosing where to stay and avoiding the usual tourist honey pots is also a factor in never having been bothered.

 

There are some very nice small places in France, few of them are in the guide books.

 

I have, on occasion, actually asked the local policeman if I can stay there for one night, a shrug of the shoulders "certainement vous mai" and all is well!

 

Being shown where to get water was an added bonus.

 

I cannot help but feel that the reason for any clamp down is to do with visual impact, numbers of vans and anti social activities of the minority.

 

I have seen sewage dumped in the open on a beach, bags of litter left by the side of the road, camp fires in a forest, and so on.

 

No one on here would do such a thing, of course, but there are lots of people buying vans of all sorts now and most of them have probably no idea of what is considered the right thing to do.

 

So, I will keep my "hidden gem" places to myself and continue to enjoy them whilst I can, for make no mistake, "the writing is on the wall".

 

Hallii

[Solwaybuggier]

A recent editorial in the French magazine Le Monde du Camping Car made some interesting (and concerning) points.

 

In particular, while recognising that around 10% of French communes (local councils) now have provision for motorhomes and that about 1500 new aires have opened in the last decade, the staff who work on producing the magazine's Aires guides are finding for the first time a significant number of responses along the lines of "I'm fed up with camping cars, they're never happy and when you provide them with facilities they complain it's too dear."

 

It appears this is still a minority view - but growing. (And as most postings on here seem to recognise, MHers in France really don't have much to moan about comparatively.)