Guest Tracker Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 As the new van season starts and the shows and dealers and the salesman all begin the inexorable hard flog with as much economy of honesty as they can get away with maybe it is time to bring a few items to the attention of the unwary and these are some of my favourites. 1 Fiat / Peugeot / Citroen reverse gear judder. In the absence of any proof that allegedly new vans have an improved gearbox I suggest that the buyer assumes the worst and does not commit or part with any money until they have driven the specific van and proved for themselves the true situation. 2. Payload. If you are using the van for anything more than a long weekend most of us will want at least 500kg - much preferably 600kg payload, and if you are long terming probably over 700kg payload otherwise you risk the expensive and inconvenient wrath of the police at a roadside weighbridge. 3. Ground Clearance. Many vans look OK but have things like water tanks low slung midships externally and these are very vulnerable to damage on rough ground. 4. Build Quality. Flimsy panels and doors, inadequate hinges and catches and all in the name of weight saving are the current trend so be aware of what you are buying. 5. Impractical Layouts. Some layouts are designed by people who never use them - obviously! Things to look out for are beds that don't make up flat or have ridges in all the wrong places. Washrooms that don't give you enough space to wipe yer bum! Shower areas too small to - er - shower - and beware of vinyl curtain syndrome! Wash basins inaccessible when the door is shut. Kitchens with no work surface and/or no storage. Lounging that looks OK but turns out to be very uncomfortable for a whole evening. Water tanks, gas bottle lockers, batteries all with inadequate capacity for more than a day or two's worth of water. 6 Spare Wheel. A personal choice but I would not venture abroad without one. 7 Dealer Reputation. They will all promise you a wonderful buying and owning experience but word of mouth will tell which ones deliver. The MMM guide to good dealers also helps. Buying as local to home as you can also makes resolving failures a lot easier. 8 Information. Search all the forums and magazines for model specific info and go to a few shows, have a wander round the camped vans and try and find an owner of the model that you fancy to natter to. Most of us are friendly and will try to help with biased by experience information. 9 Road Test reports. Just because any road test or live in report does not mention a fault do not assume it is not there any many testers do not seem to actually drive or spend a night in the van they are testing. Assume the worst - assume nothing works correctly until proven that it does. That way you should find out what does not work the way you expect before it is too late and the van is sitting on your drive. 10 CAVEAT EMPTOR - let the buyer beware is as true today as ever was - probably more so given the vast amounts of cash at stake! Any more anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Will probably go to Düsseldorf show in August, with the intention of making our minds up re what to get. will then probably order over the winter for a March/April 2011 delivery. All possible because I got a new driving licence this week! :-D this was unexpected as eye sight borderline....so I know have a new 3 year license. I fancied getting a "van" type camper that the wife would probably drive if worse comes to worse :-S but thinking they are probably a Little to much of a compromise and most are on a Fiat. So maybe something like the westfalia westvan, but I fink they may have stopped production *-) http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/westvan.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Good news indeed Eddie and best wishes with your plans. Nobody needs a short sighted hanging judge on their case! May I respectfully ask that we keep this thread clear of individual designs please and concentrate on specific generalities that the new buyer should be aware of before deciding on a specific make or type or layout? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Good thread Rich!I would add to remember that it is the dealer who has the legal liability for all and any defects that may arise on your van. Far too many folk turn first to a manufacturer's guarantee, instead of to their dealer.If the dealer asks you to deal with the manufacturer of the base vehicle through an authorised repairer, by all means do so. If the defect is quickly and easily repaired by them, fine.However, if they say nothing is wrong, or they cannot rectify the fault, ensure that you return to the dealer and ask him what he intends doing to sort it out. It doesn't matter that he is not the base vehicle manufacturer's agent, he sold you the van, and he alone has the legal responsibility for its adequacy.If the dealer directs you to the motorhome manufacturer's guarantee to remedy defects or shortcomings in the conversion, he is absolutely wrong to do so. As above, the legal liability resides wholly with the dealer. No ifs no buts, the buck stops with the supplying dealer, and he must take full responsibility for putting it right.If a defect arises within six months of purchase of a new van, it is automatically assumed at law that the defect was there when you bought the van (unless it is demonstrably the result of subsequent damage or abuse). After six months, you may have to try to prove why, if the defect was there at delivery, you did not spot it within the first six months).For the above reasons, if a defect arises, go to the dealer who sold you the van. If he acts quickly, and carries out a satisfactory remedy with no argument, you have found a good, reliable, responsible dealer. If he does not, you must, above all else, first speak to a director of the firm about your problem, and make sure where the problem is arising. He may just take a silly salesman aside, give him a quiet kick, and get things moving. If he also resists, make sure you write to him setting out your complaint or, if you prefer, go to your Trading Standards department and obtain their advice.For all of the above reasons, when ordering your new van, work out beforehand exactly what you want (paying special attention to any options on the base vehicle [air-con, chassis upgrades, engine variants etc]), write it all down before you get to the dealer, and make sure that the dealer copies it all exactly onto the order form, or attaches a copy to the order form, with a clear reference to the attachment on the form. Make sure you get, and keep, a copy of both.When you get the van, check it over for any shortcomings (especially in base vehicle options) before you take it away and, if there are any problems, do not take the van and do not pay the balance due. The dealer must then decide how he will put it right, which he will do much quicker before he has you money and you have the van!Please don't be put off by all this, it is the just same for anything else you may buy. However motorhomes are very expensive, and rather complicated, so it is a bit of a show stopper if something goes wrong, and it good to know in advance where to turn for remedy. The great majority of vans, and dealers, are fine - but forewarned if forearmed, as they say! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The Payload available to you needs careful consideration and calculation. Manufacturers do tend to give optimistic figures. You need the weight of your intended motorhome, including its driver, a full fuel tank, a full water tank and a full LPG tank. Add to this the weight of any extras/accessories you intend putting on the van e.g. Awning, tow bar ,TV etc . Take the total of this lot away from the vehicles maximum allowed weight and what you have left is the amount you can put into the motorhome INCLUDING your passengers. (allow 75kg each for these) There is one further consideration, your axle loadings Care must be taken not to overload either of your axles and despite popular belief, it is possible that your axles can become over loaded even though overall the vehicle remains within its maximum allowed weight. The front axle on the larger engine new Fiat conversions can to suffer from this Get this right before you buy your new pride and joy as it is very expensive to sort out afterwards ignore it at your cost. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Make sure you know the weight of the motorhome you are interested in and have the entitlement to drive the size of vehicle you are buying. A salesman will not necessarilyask you about your license and (as far as I know) has no legal responsibility to ensure that you are entitled to drive the vehicle he/she has just sold you. If you passed your test before 1st January 1997 you should have 'grandfather' rights to drive vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg Maximum Authorised Weight. Otherwise you will be limited to a maximum weight of 3500kgs although you can take an additional test to allow you to drive the larger vehicle. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 david lloyd - 2010-01-25 5:41 PM Make sure you know the weight of the motorhome you are interested in and have the entitlement to drive the size of vehicle you are buying. A salesman will not necessarilyask you about your license and (as far as I know) has no legal responsibility to ensure that you are entitled to drive the vehicle he/she has just sold you. If you passed your test before 1st January 1997 you should have 'grandfather' rights to drive vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg Maximum Authorised Weight. Otherwise you will be limited to a maximum weight of 3500kgs although you can take an additional test to allow you to drive the larger vehicle. David But your licence expires when you are 70 and you have to re-apply. You are then restricted to 3500kg unless you provide a medical certificate, for which you will be charged by your doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 A fair few things have been covered already, but here's a bit more specific info on Kitchen equipment: Fridges - they vary greatly, some are AES (Automatic energy selection - these choose the best source of 'energy' to run off once you've turned them to auto), others you need to do manually as appropriate. The capacities vary a lot too. Also check that you can actually get the shelves out of the fridge/freezer - I've certainly know some vans that are so tight for space that the doors don't open fully enough. Cookers - do you need a grill, an oven, or just a hob? Check if they have electric/piezo ignition or if you have to do it manually (ie with a match), one important point though is, is the hob big enough to take more than one large pan at a time, some may have 3 or 4 burners but are so scaled down that you can only get a large pan on with a very small one, not much use if you're doing a fry up with all the trimmings! Also, do you need an electric ring too? Some cookers have these instead of one of the burners - if you use sites with electric hookup most of the time it could prove useful, but if not it could be a nuisance 'losing' what could have been a usable burner. We have a separate electric hotplate and use that as/when necessary. Sink - some sinks are so shallow or small that they are almost useless - if you want to be able to use a bowl in some of the more unusually shaped ones you've had it. Also, do you need a draining board? Me, I'd rather have the extra worktop space and put a tray out as a drainer as/when needed, but others like to have a draining board. Worktop - is there enough worktop space? It is possible to add some more in some vans but in others it isn't. Storage - is there enough for you to put in various types of food, bottles, tins, pots, pans (it can be challenging to find spaces big enough for pans in some vans), cutlery etc. Power sockets - are there any in the kitchen area? More than one is great, but one is sufficient with the use of a 4-way extension cable. Don't worry about having a 12v socket in the kichen area as most 12v appliances take an age to do whatever they're supposed to so IMV aren't worth bothering with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Another item to add: Water Tanks: Make sure they are inboard or fully insulated & heated. Well that's ruled out nearly all UK built vans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 And buy within your means. Work out your budget and stick to it. Don't be tempted to go further. Oh, and read any small print if you decide to borrow the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 lennyhb - 2010-01-27 6:18 PM Another item to add: Water Tanks: Make sure they are inboard or fully insulated & heated. Well that's ruled out nearly all UK built vans! Not if you only intend using the van in three out of four seasons it don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 With the investment required to buy a new van these days wouldn't want to leave it standing around for 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 With the investment required to buy a new van these days wouldn't want to leave it standing around for 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Honest guv I only hit the button once. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Good to see Mel put the womans side to this thread. Some designers could do with female input, re kitchen facilities and storage. I have trouble opening my fridge door fully , when the van door is closed!!!! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 A PS to The Judge. Just got my licence renewed, for a further three years Happy Birthday Eddie PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 PJay - 2010-01-27 11:19 PM A PS to The Judge. Just got my licence renewed, for a further three years Happy Birthday Eddie PJay Thanks PJay, I can tell you I was scared recently to open the post, not expecting good news at all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Lenny - 2010-01-27 6:18 PM Water Tanks: Make sure they are inboard or fully insulated & heated. Well that's ruled out nearly all UK built vans! I agree with Lenny on this, it says a lot IMO about the motorhome manufacturers if they cant be bothered building a properly insulated and winter proof van, If they cut corners with tank and pipe work insulation, where else have they economised I wonder *-) I mean come on! how often do people come on here complaing re frozen pipes and the answer normally is get the hairdryer out! it is laughable in this day and age..... And why I always buy German. Double floor, all tanks and pipe work within, extra storage in the double floor, underfloor heated as well, so when you walk around in the night your feet are warm. this is of particular benefit in the shower room :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 PJay - 2010-01-27 11:16 PM Good to see Mel put the womans side to this thread. Some designers could do with female input, re kitchen facilities and storage. I have trouble opening my fridge door fully , when the van door is closed!!!! PJay Agreed,but not the MDs wife choosing the patterns for the interior fabrics!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Inboard water tanks for frost protection and protection from damage when slung too low externally. Outboard water tanks mean more storage inside and if you are not a winter user why lose valuable storage space? Orses fer courses innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Less storage space means you carry less junk, the stuff you thought you needed but hardly ever use. As Eddie says if you want a van for winter use buy German, we don't have a double floor but the insulation is superior to British vans. The fresh water tank is inboard, the waste is under slung but in an insulated box with a feed from the blow air heating. There is also a blow air heating feed into the toilet cassette waste locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Some good stuff here, maybe it could be put on a sticky in ''ints and Tips' Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil malcolmson Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 So this thread reads- Its got to be german and not a Fiat. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 neil malcolmson - 2010-01-28 5:33 PM So this thread reads- Its got to be german and not a Fiat. :-S By Geroge his got it! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 That German for George m'Lud???? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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