Shocking debt of £80.000 by 80 year olds

[Guest JudgeMental]

This takes a while to load but needs to be watched.......It is absolutely shocking, and browills apparently made a £3000 commission on the last transaction alone! :-S

 

http://www.itv.com/wales/the-ferret-programme-258861/

[neil malcolmson]

And whos fault is that..

people that stupid should not be allowed out on there own.

 

And who will end up paying for it.

[malc d]

JudgeMental - 2010-01-26 1:30 PM

 

This takes a while to load but needs to be watched.......It is absolutely shocking, and browills apparently made a £3000 commission on the last transaction alone! :-S

 

http://www.itv.com/wales/the-ferret-programme-258861/

 

 

As I understand it, Brownhills only get the £3000 commission if no 'bad debt' is incurred, so it seems unlikely that they got it in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

neil malcolmson - 2010-01-26 1:58 PM

 

And whos fault is that..

people that stupid should not be allowed out on there own.

 

And who will end up paying for it.

 

A bit harsh....Not stupid just getting old. How many cases of old people being duped out of life savings by contractors fixing roofs or driveways. it is a similar tale IMO *-)

[neil malcolmson]

Ok maybe a bit harsh.But how can you be fooled so many times?And it will be joe public that barclays recoup the money from.

 

(post edited by moderator)

 

[spospe]

Judge

 

I am unsure who is to blame for this sorry mess. The people involved are certainly over 18 years of age and seemed lucid enough when interviewed by "The Ferret", especially Wilson's wife Mary.

 

In a country where it is deemed insulting to question metal ability in older members of society, what were Brownhills supposed to do? It does seem that Wilson especially, was not 100% financially aware and ended up digging a pit for himself, but at what point should Brownhills have said, "Hang on, you are an old fool and not understanding what is going on, we are not going to let you dig yourself in any deeper"?

 

Barclays said that it was not their policy to question the mental state of older customers, indeed if they did, they would be regarded as being 'ageist', so whose fault was it?

 

Perhaps it was Barclays after all, maybe they should have done more checking on the Soulsby's ability to pay the full debt, but even now, I am not sure that I fully know the answer.

 

[weldted]

I would like to think that I had retained my awareness of financial dealing when I ws 75, plus yet again (wise) people cast their opinions about people of advancing years and label them stupid!! these are the people who although you now label stupid are the people whose efforts during the war now allow you to be able to post rude and condesending comments in english on a free access website. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Your contempt should be aimed at the greedy finance companies who allowed these transactions to take place, they are supposed to carry out a duty of care when agreeing to any financial transaction unless the application form has misleading information and who fills in the forms (dealers maybe?)

[Guest JudgeMental]

I agree.....what ha[ppened to "due dilligence". Giving a 12 year £80.000 loan to people in there 80's, you do the math *-)

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

My daughter works for a bank, and at one time she was in "Compliance". As far as I can make out the bank has to investigate their customer's requirements, needs and circumstances, before they can sell them a savings plan, or WHY. I would have assumed that the same applies to loans?

 

£80,000? Is that after interest has been added? Sort of, you borrowed £50,000 but you immediately owe £80,000.

 

Equity release? Probably OK if you have nobody to inherit when you die. That could be a good deal, get a motorhome today, enjoy yourself, who cares what happens when you pop your clogs ...... except the surviving spouse ....... and maybe the taxman.

 

Peter Hain tells me that there is a bill going thru Parliament to prevent AGE discrimination in financial matters.

 

But yeah, that story sounds bad at first sight.

 

602

[Lord Raindrop]

5 models in LESS than 4 years the details said, that's rather more than unusual, it sounds as if the person involved had not learned a lot about finance in all that time so he must have been pretty stupid to end up still owing such high figure.

 

And indeed the final amount owing might have been an accumalation of payments on all 5 vans together, we will never know.

 

We know nothing about the original price of the M/H, neither do we know anything of the buyers personal finances. Perhaps it was mere pennies to him, we read that his wife was upset, perhaps it was her cash.

 

There are some very emotive words and phrases used by the ‘Ferret’ set up which, like many such organisations will set about dramatising a situation far beyond what it may have actually been.

 

I don’t see how a reference to the elderly and wartime have anything to do with not being able to work out costing on a M/H loan. Many old folk lose their way as they age, (or indeed at any age) it would appear that this gentleman unfortunately did.

 

(Perhaps)

 

 

 

 

 

[berti]

hi judge

we can't access the full story ..as we are not in uk...but have filed it ..hopefully to read when we return....we often wonder how some folks manage to change their vans so regularly..

cheers

berti

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Make hay while the sun shines, chaps, as this thread will undoubtedly (and deservedly) get the chop when the Moderator spots it.

[neil malcolmson]

Why?

[Derek Uzzell]

neil malcolmson - 2010-01-26 6:50 PM

 

Why?

 

This forum's Terms of Use contains the following

 

"You are reminded of the text you agreed to when you use a Warners Group Publications Plc forums, guest books and other user contributing sections and are required to comply with it: You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, libellous, hateful, threatening or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

 

I would have thought that it doesn't take a MENSA-qualifying intellect to appreciate that the last line of your first posting will conflict with at least one adjective in the last sentence of the the Terms of Use caveat.

 

[Mel B]

Lets try to get a bit of balance here:

 

1) The couple willingly bought the first motorhome, they then traded it in within the first year for a second one - this actually doesn't support the claim that they changed it because the 18 month 'discount' period was going to end (not unless years have got a lot shorter!), no, IMV, I think they changed it because it wasn't suitable for them (too big possibly seeing as it appears to have been a 6 birth?).

 

2) They then continued down this track changing to a smaller motorhome, again supposedly because they were going to lose the 'discount'.

 

3) Now, if they knew they were getting a discount at the beginning, the must also have know what the payments would be once the discount was not being given, otherwise why would they have changed yet again to get the discount again??? It sounds like they knew they had something they couldn't afford pretty quickly but instead tried to have their cake and eat it which backfired.

 

4) Despite being given the finance loan paperwork, and having time to change their minds (cooling off period), it appears that the husband did not READ it. No one can be blamed for this except him I'm afraid, this has nothing to do with age.

 

5) There are lots of senior motorhome owners who do change their vans, some quite often, to them moneys isn't always an issue so how could the dealer know? I have met and chatted to people myself who have had 3 vans in less than 2 years and, despite complaining about the loss they took on their PX values (not the dealers fault - they don't MAKE them buy the next motorhome), the owners quite happily go on enjoying their motorhomes.

 

6) One thing I do agree with is that they should NOT have been able to get such a large loan without more 'care' having been taken by the bank.

 

7) I would also question how much information the couple were actually giving to the dealers when making their purchases as to their financial situation. Don't get me wrong, personally I think the dealer could have been a bit more 'sensible' but at the end of the day, as the couple could easily have been dealt with by 5 different sales staff, it is difficult to know how they could've done so without being offensive after all they didn't MAKE them buy the motorhomes.

 

Something just doesn't add up here and I suspect we will never find out the full story - suffice to say that they have been very, very, very fortunate to get the outcome they have.

 

One thing that this does hightlight is something I have said time and time again - NEVER take out a finance loan via your motorhome dealer as every time you change your van you have to 'settle' the orignal loan and take out another as it is secured on the vehicle itself. This means that you are paying interest on interest ... and in their case ... again and again. It also means that you do not OWN the motorhome until the very last payment of the loan is made (or you pay it off in full), plus any 'admin' fee that is often added at the end.

 

If instead they had taken out a bank or building society loan they would NOT have had it secured to the motorhome as it woudl have been totally independent of it, so they could have changed it, sold it, done what they wanted with it, without any recourse to the loan provider.

 

Sorry, gotta dash - tea's ready!

 

[GypsyTom]

neil malcolmson - 2010-01-26 3:32 PMOk maybe a bit harsh.But how can you be fooled so many times?And it will be joe public that barclays recoup the money from. Post edited by moderator.

This comment is uninformed, inflammatory and potentially libellous. If you'd bothered to watch the video of the programme you'd have learned that Barclays only came into this affair towards the end. When it was pointed out to them that this man now had a debt of £80,000 and had only raised £23,000 by selling his latest motorhome, they agreed to completely write off the debt. He now owes nothing.

Criminals? I don't think so!

[kontiki]

Watched some of the video (couldn't watch it all as it kept freezing up with my bad connection) I think that they were a bit naive to not work out the full amount they were getting into debt for. They didn't seem senile or anything & at their age they must have some sense of money & how much things cost. I understand that some slick salesman telling them that it is in their interests to exchange the van but it is his job to sell & I for one don't trust any of them. I didn't get the full story of how Barclays had the loan as the story seemed to say that they had different lenders each time, maybe it was just Barclays were the last & got the lot. I don't think the debt should be written off as they did say they would be willing to pay half the amount of the monthly payments. Somebody has to pay (it is a fact of life) so letting them off with the loan completely puts the debt on therest of us. I don't understand what the finance companies are doing lending to people without checking that they have the means to pay.

 

As somebody else said we will never know the real story of it all, I don't have any sympathy towards Brownhills but I don't really have much towards this couple (age shouldn't be a factor in this) what would peoples reaction be if the couple in question were 20 - 30 year olds? Would we be wanting the bank to write off their loan (?)

[passionwagon]

8-) No one has yet spotted they were using Motability payments which would suggest the vehicles were VAT free! This can encourage people to trade down regularly as the trade in value in 12-18 months is usually very close to that paid exVAT-no improprietry suggested just explaining how the system works.

Incidentally the suggestion the dealer and bank have been short on due diligence is close to libel and posters should be careful. Always read the label!

For the record I have just settled after 3 years my 10 year loan (2007) (at 67) for a purchase at Brownhills. The settlement figure was 60% of the balance outstanding. This included a trade in with finance and the steps/finanacial position were very clearly explained.

Oh on the question of due diligence here is the best thing, in 1999 (59) I was offered a 40 year mortgage.

Pip pip :-(

[Bazza454]

JudgeMental - 2010-01-26 1:30 PM This takes a while to load but needs to be watched.......It is absolutely shocking, and browills apparently made a £3000 commission on the last transaction alone! :-S http://www.itv.com/wales/the-ferret-programme-258861/[/quote]

Apparantly Brownhills only make the commission if the loan runs its full course, which in this case it didn't.

Most important comment in this sorry saga is the remark made by his wife reference his purchase of 5 motorhomes in four years -

"I kept telling him not to do it, but he wouldn't listen."

End of story.....

[Mel B]

Two words come to mind about all of this ... stubborn and foolish.

 

8-)

[Guest peter]

JudgeMental - 2010-01-26 3:57 PM

 

I agree.....what ha[ppened to "due dilligence". Giving a 12 year £80.000 loan to people in there 80's, you do the math *-)

But if it wasn't for the intervention of "the ferret" Barclays were possibly banking on having them out of their house in default, how else would they get their cash back. No wonder the country is in the sh*t. When I was first married and buying our first house we had the third degree for a couple of hundred quid loan from LLoyds, and had to lodge my life insurance policy as indemnity plus my wifes dad had to stand guarantor. Now the stupid and greedy banks are throwing money at people. >:-)

[malc d]

I wonder if he is a member of this forum.

 

 

 

;-)

[Mike B.]

Mel B

Totally agree with your opinion and agree people should not jump to conclusions of a 'con'

I think this couple have been very very fortunate and wish someone had written off 65% of my debt when I purchased a new van

Mike B

[Guest JudgeMental]

if Warner's get the jitters and in the words of Tom Jones "it's a not unusual" you can tune in over on MHFun where these types of issues are left to run....... and where I first saw this clip. Also may I say the couple where viewed more sympathetically....

[Guest peter]

Not so many grumpy old gits on there judge. :D