Poppy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 We put our Hymer van in part exchange,plus a further £1000 for a new Hobby Siesta exclusive.We did this through Hartleys (the dealers) and the van was being imported by Hobby uk.They asked us for the van early and we agreed.We rang Hobby today to ask how things were getting on only to be told that Hobby are not making any Right hand drive vehicles this year!!!!! We rang Hartleys to ask what was going on and they claimed they had no idea about this but would contact us probably on Saturday.They passed our own van on to trade.The caravan club tell me we are entitled to our own van plus money back, or the agreed amount of the part exchange and money.We are not happy bunnies.We wonder how long this would have continued if we hadn't rung!We don't want a left hand drive vehicle.We discussed this in the past and are adamant about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 This is the second post on here recently regarding German manufacturers not building RHD, the other was Hymer with their PVC..... Blimey this is a mess. Get the cash value of your van plus deposit of them right now, and go shopping for something else :-S Lesson here being, don't give them the van early. I thought you where going to say they went bankrupt *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 No they haven't said that up to now at any rate.With the benefit of hindsight I think that Hobby UK at least have known about this for a while and have been trying to negotiate with Hobby in Germany to at least honour the contract with vans that have been built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 That means that 'Hobby UK' is pretty much redundant doesn't it ?? If all that they can supply is LHD vehicles that puts then into a 'Niche within a Niche' market ! And surely means that they no longer conform to our Laws ?? at least it SHOULD. Habitation doors on the 'Offside' is bad enough, but LHD only, means they shouldn't even be allowed into our Marketplace. Or are new RHD, habitation door on UK nearside, Swifts allowed to be sold in Germany ?? I think not ! Hope that 'Hartleys' have good news for you on Saturday, let us know. regards Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hi Poppy - long time no 'see'. What a sorry state .... It is absolutely disgusting that the dealer was not aware of the state of play - they should have been in touch with the manufacturer at least weekly to keep apprised of what's going on and any issues - I don't see how they can have done this otherwise they would have been fully aware. Remember though YOU are the hurt party and should therefore be well compensated. You should NOT just accept the PX value and your deposit back - the PX value for your van will probably have been low, so make sure you negotiate a good 'extra' settlement on top of that for the worry and expense you are now going to have to bear whilst you try to source another van and the delay in you now getting a van and remember that the VAT rate has now increased too which is also going to cost you more ... and you may have to 'hire' a van now etc, etc, etc. Lay it on thick (a few tears won't go a miss ... from you rather than your husband though! :D ). Make sure that you write yourself a list of things you want to say when you meet as it is very easy to forget pertinent things which you wished you'd mentioned earlier. Whatever they offer, do NOT agree there and then, even if it is what you want, insist on being able to go away and think it over as there may be something which you think about later which needs clarifying. If you don't feel able to be 'tough' with them or stand your ground, take along a friend who can - someone you know can be firm but polite, to help you out and take over the 'negotiations' if needs be. It will show them that you mean business and aren't going to be fobbed off, not that I think you will be as hopefully they are one of the better dealerships (I have no experience of them), but better to be prepared nontheless. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Just thinking about this... Are you sure they "traded on" your van and have not sold it at a fat profit? I can understand a a VW dealer trading on a ford or whatever but this seems iffy to me. Trace the van through DVLA if necessary. I would get legal with them and insist on being paid the "invoice" amount they got for it, probably a lot healthier then the PX! Tell them you are involving the police, that will galvanise their thought processes.......I smell a rat *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 looking in the 3m's there is only one Hartley Hobby dealer mentioned. When you placed the order for your new Hobby why did you hand over your motorhome without having sight of it or at least seeing a factory dispatch document to confirm it was on its way to the dealer? When I ordered my latest motorhome I was asked to hand over mine but I refused point blank because if the company had gone into liquidation I would have lost my deposit and my motorhome as well. Most dealers do the exchange and handover on the same day so anyone out there who has ordered a new one DON'T HAND YOUR MOTORHOME OVER UNTIL THEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Poppy if you don't live to far away from the dealer go and see if your motorhome is still there, have a good look around including round the back of their premises, put out to trade could mean anything. There are a few dealers in their area so you could call and see if it has been passed on or not. You should have been told straight away as soon your motorhome had been disposed of as well. Has the dealer acted lawfully? Did you keep a set of keys until your new motorhome was handed over? Hopefully the dealer will act in an honourable manner and all will be well. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-02-05 6:48 PM I would get legal with them and insist on being paid the "invoice" amount they got for it, probably a lot healthier then the PX! Tell them you are involving the police, that will galvanise their thought processes.......I smell a rat *-) Poppy You need to claim for the full resale value of your Hymer, NOT what it actually sold for. The dealer could easily have discounted the Hymer to move it quickly or to the trade to generate cash flow, especially if there is any possibility they could be in the financial s*it. I would also recommend you notify the dealer that you will be engaging a solicitor specialising in Consumer Law, (even if only for an initial discussion). Then also have a talk to your local Trading Standards office. The more ammunition you have the better in these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I'm no expert, but I'd have thought that the old van remained legally your property (regardless of "keeper" named on the V5) until the contract was fulfilled. If I'm right about that, then the dealer was out of order disposing of it in any way at all (and I'm still not sure why they'd want it handed over "up front"anyway). I'd call the police if you're not completely satisfied with both their explanation and their offer (which as Flicka says should be AT LEAST the full market value of the old van, plus refund of any money you've paid). Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thank you all for your suport.I shall bear in mind you comments and keep everyone updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 PoppyAs soon as you possibly can get along to your local Trading Standards and consult them on what to do next. The dealer has broken his contract with you. There is a contract in place, because he has taken your van as deposit against the new van. Because he has now sold on your van he presumably cannot return it to you (though he may be able to reverse the deal and get it back if his trade contacts are good). Otherwise, I think he is legally obliged to place you back into the position you were in before he entered into the contract he can no longer fulfil. That is to say he must pay you whatever it costs, or find you, a replacement motorhome of equivalent quality to that which you had. This will be rather more than the trade-in value of your van, and they may well stick at that prospect.You will probably need to put various things in writing to them, and you may need to do this using particular phraseology, to be sure of protecting your legal position until the matter is settled. Trading Standards will be able to assess and assist once they are in the picture - but don't delay! Get there soonest. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Hi, My understanding is that a "trade in" is technically a case of a dealer buys your vehicle and sells you his. That could get interesting if you reject the vehicle you bought .... dealer should refund the full sale price, not give you your car back. Just think if they had given you £2000 on the Scappage Scheme, for a clunker. There is a web site that will tell you whether a vehicle is taxed or not. Anybody know the address? If its taxed, it would seem fair to assume that somebody is driving it. If its not taxed, it could mean anything Phone DVLA ...... no, don't bother. Email DVLA at ..... vehicles.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk ...... ask them if YOU are the Registered Keeper. They might squawk about Data Protection, but IF you are the keeper, then you are entitled to know. If nothing else, it will be fun watching them wriggle. Ask for the name of the Director. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Hi, That web-site is http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/application?pageid=Vehicle+Enquiry&portletid=VehicleEnquiry&portletns=VehicleEnquiry_en&wfevent=link.next They need the regisatration and make. I just found that the Land Rover I sold a year ago is still on the road ;-) 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Hi again, Ooops! Can Mr Moderator cancel that last mail please? Pretty please! I think the correct web address is ...... http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/application?origin=vnav_bar.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.refresh&pageid=Vehicle+Enquiry 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 All good advice, though it would be sensible to make absolutely sure what Hobby(Germany) is up to so that the best strategy can be chosen. I hesitate to say this, but, since I've owned a Hobby, I've always had the impression that Hobby as a company was perfectly prepared to make 'bugger the buyers' autocratic decisions. Also that the relationship between the Hobby(Germany) factory and the Hobby(UK) importer was more than a touch uncomfortable. (I guess it's possible that the no-Hobby-2010-RHD-motorhomes applies just to Ford-based vehicles, as there have been a few comments about revised Transits causing difficulties for converters.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 One of the really annoying things about this is that, with the benefit of hindsight, I think Hobby uk were aware of this problem for some time and were trying to get Hobby Germany to at least honour the vans that were already ordered.I don't know how long this would have gone on if we hadn't rung them and when we contacted the dealers they seemed unaware of the problem.I have contacted trading standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I have to say that I find all this hysteria quite amazing. Why contact Trading Standards? The time to do things like that is when you've given the dealer the chance to sort out your problem and he hasn't. This is the situation as I see it. The dealer has acted in the honest belief that he will have your vehicle quite soon. He has obviously not been told anything about Hobby no longer making RHD 'vans and I'm not surprised because it appears to be news to everyone. There is a Hobby Van Exclusive L in RHD on its way to my dealer as I write. It's been made and is awaiting shipment and should be here next week. Hartleys has promised to phone you today after it has spoken to Hobby UK. It is an old established business with a good reputation and will be as horrified as you are at the turn of events and if it does turn out that the new 'van is not available in RHD it will be doing its utmost to get your old 'van back and put you back in the position you were before all this broke. I find that some comments about going to the police and sniffing around the back of the dealers to see if it's hiding your 'van to be unfair and incredibly unreasonable. For God's sake, give them a chance to sort out what I suspect may well be one big mistake by the possibly junior member of Hobby UK's staff who gave you this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 There is no hysteria here? Poppy made a fundamental mistake by handing over her camper before the exchange. Probably because that was what the dealer wanted! He is responsible as it is the dealer Poppy has a contract with, end of........ Seeing as you know so much about this dealer, maybe you can explain why they "traded on" Poppys Hymer ( a very popular model) when they have secondhand hymers for sale along with assorted other makes on their website *-) I smell a rat part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Just to add to the mystery, in this months MMM Hobby UK have a full page advert (page 204) and i Quote ; 'each and every motor home is still hand built by a team of experienced artisans to 'UK specification' WITH right hand drive cab. So if they AIN'T then trading standards should be looking at the AD. as well as sorting out Poppy's individual problem, before others get 'Hooked'. >:-( >:-( Ray ps. they are supposed to be at the NEC later this month too, that should be interesting ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 Gypsy Tom I do not blame Hartleys at all who appear as mystified as us. I have had a very aimicable conversation with them myself today and not threatened or accused them of anything.They will get back when they have contacted Hobby uk I am sure.\I went to Trading standards for advice as I was advised to by Brian.They just gave me advice.They don't want to leap on anyone yet and I said I didn't want to go in all guns blazing until everyone has had the chance to sort something out.Do I sound unreasonable?If I blame anyone its Hobby uk.Hartleys do understand why I am anxious.We are, for the record, genuine customers who pay our bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-02-06 11:12 AMThere is no hysteria here? Poppy made a fundamental mistake by handing over her camper before the exchange. Probably because that was what the dealer wanted! He is responsible as it is the dealer Poppy has a contract with, end of........Seeing as you know so much about this dealer, maybe you can explain why they "traded on" Poppys Hymer ( a very popular model) when they have secondhand hymers for sale along with assorted other makes on their website *-) I smell a rat part 2 No hysteria? Go to the police, contact Trading Standards, all this before the dealer has even been given time to investigate what's happening and to phone back as he promised, possibly today if he can get the info. As for why he traded on this one and not others, who cares, it's irrelevant. Possibly some Hymer models are more sought after than others? What I can't understand is this - how does it benefit the dealer to say that he's sold on the motorhome if he hasn't? If this new Hobby isn't available he's been dropped in a terrible situation by Hobby. The easiest way out for him is to give the trade-in back and compensate the customer for all the trouble with perhaps a moderate cash settlement. What possible benefit can he get from pretending that he's sold it on when he hasn't. Perhaps you can explain what this rat is that you smell? I suspect that it's simply the antipathy that you always seem to demonstrate to any section of the U.K. motorhome business community. Finally, firms like Hartleys, trading in areas like Kendal, depend heavily on their reputation among the local folk. It beggars belief that they have done anything illegal. The worst thing that they are guilty of is in trusting Hobby to deliver the motorhome that they promised. Won't all this be fun if we eventually find out that it's all mistake and the RHD Hobby will soon be on its way? Even if it's not I can promise you that Hartleys will act as honorably as anyone can in similar circumstances. As I said, for God's sake, give them a chance to sort it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Poppy - 2010-02-06 12:11 PMGypsy Tom I do not blame Hartleys at all who appear as mystified as us. I have had a very aimicable conversation with them myself today and not threatened or accused them of anything.They will get back when they have contacted Hobby uk I am sure.\I went to Trading standards for advice as I was advised to by Brian.They just gave me advice.They don't want to leap on anyone yet and I said I didn't want to go in all guns blazing until everyone has had the chance to sort something out.Do I sound unreasonable?If I blame anyone its Hobby uk.Hartleys do understand why I am anxious.We are, for the record, genuine customers who pay our bills. Thank you for that. I'm delighted that you are being reasonable and my complaint was never about you but about the hysterical advice being given to you by certain members of this forum who don't even want to wait for the dealer to be given a chance to sort this out. I can assure you that you will find that Hartleys will do everything possible to satisfy you. The way to deal with situations like this is in a friendly and reasonable way, which you are doing. Going in, as you say, with guns blazing, just inflames things. Good luck with this and I hope that you get your RHD 'van. As I said, there's one on the way for me so something is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 Thanks Gypsy Tom.My husband is adamant that that is what he was told and there really is no need for him to lie.We have the money, there is no problem there as my husband is old fashioned and believes that if you can't afford it you don't get it.Perhaps and hopefully there is a misunderstanding somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Your really need to read what people have said regards this issue properly, and stop misquoting and jumbling up different opinion. contacting trading standards is common sense not hysteria Again for the hard of hearing. I do not believe for one minute Poppy's PX has been "traded on" :-S What I do agree with is that I hope this is all sorted out amicably and to Poppy's satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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