Wrong time to change my van?

[Brock]

Am off to the NEC at the end of the month to window shop.

 

I was going to go with my cheque book. However, having spoken to a number of dealers and bespoke panel van converters, I am getting the same message; substantial deposit required and built to order not sold from stock.

 

Normally, this wouldn't be a concern for me. I am an ex-banker though (when bank's were sensible) and know that more firms go bust when the economy comes out of a recession than go bust when the recession starts (firms overtrade when coming out of recession). There are too many horror stories of delayed deliveries and motorhome firms going bust.

 

Am I too risk averse?

 

I don't want to buy second hand even though that would be the sensible solution. Vans better than mine tend to be too big and too ornate.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

In my view a very sensible approach John and if I were in the market for a new van exactly the line I would take. Most dealers have demonstrators and maybe if you know what you want there could be one with your name onit after six months or so?

 

Given the poor build quality and mechanical defects that are known to plague many if not most new vans there is no way on earth I would part with any money before seeing, inspecting, driving and approving any vehicle.

 

I never buy new vans anyway as I prefer someone else to lose the initial depreciation and to have the hassle of getting it all sorted and working properly so maybe I am not the right one to ask!

 

You do have to wonder why there are so many vans of one year old or less out there for sale if they are so wonderful, dependable and well made?

 

But then again cynic is my middle name when it comes to parting with hard earned savings that I can no longer easily replace by earning more!

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

If you dont mind LHD there is availabilty of new/nearly new vans in stock in Germany. Have a look on www.mobile.de

 

The £ has been recovering slightly although sinking back a bit again this week *-)

[michele]

Judgmental ,

I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

[lennyhb]

I share your concerns in the present economic climate it's OK to to put a deposit of say about a grand & take the risk any more though unless you can afford the loss is not advisable.

 

Why not insist they take the deposit with on a credit card then you have a comeback if they go bump.

 

A few weeks ago my daughter ordered a new car I insisted that she paid the deposit with a credit card. It was only £500 but I knew she could not afford to lose it, more to the point if anything happened it would probably end up coming out of my pocket.

 

 

[lennyhb]

michele - 2010-02-08 7:10 PM

 

Judgmental ,

I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

 

Best place to look for a van good prices good build quality.

 

 

[colin]

lennyhb - 2010-02-08 7:16 PM

 

Why not insist they take the deposit with on a credit card then you have a comeback if they go bump.

 

Not sure that is correct, IIRC if total cost of goods are over £30,000 then you are not covered for anthing, conversly if you pay £100 deposit on £1000 you can claim back the full £1000. Can't locate the info at moment, but I'm sure someone can.

[Guest JudgeMental]

lennyhb - 2010-02-08 7:18 PM

 

michele - 2010-02-08 7:10 PM

 

Judgmental ,

I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

 

Best place to look for a van good prices good build quality.

 

 

take no notice of Michele...... she drives a VW and her husband a BMW :D

[Guest Tracker]

lennyhb - 2010-02-08 7:18 PM

 

michele - 2010-02-08 7:10 PM

 

Judgmental ,

I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

 

Best place to look for a van good prices good build quality.

 

 

Provided you are happy to accept an uncomfortable lounge in the shape of those dreadful half dinette abominations.

 

I buy BRITISH and am proud to do so not least because they are simply more comfortable to relax in!

 

That should start another debate or two on the virtues or otherwise of the fixed bed versus made up bed and the half dinette versus proper lounge layouts!

 

And if you want true reliability at a sensible price buy Japanese - not German cars!

[colin]

Tracker - 2010-02-08 8:56 PM

 

Provided you are happy to accept an uncomfortable lounge in the shape of those dreadful half dinette abominations.

 

I buy BRITISH and am proud to do so not least because they are simply more comfortable to relax in!

 

 

Have you seen the Autocruise range lately ;-) :D

[lennyhb]

Tracker - 2010-02-08 8:56 PM

 

lennyhb - 2010-02-08 7:18 PM

 

michele - 2010-02-08 7:10 PM

 

Judgmental ,

I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

 

Best place to look for a van good prices good build quality.

 

 

Provided you are happy to accept an uncomfortable lounge in the shape of those dreadful half dinette abominations.

 

I buy BRITISH and am proud to do so not least because they are simply more comfortable to relax in!

 

That should start another debate or two on the virtues or otherwise of the fixed bed versus made up bed and the half dinette versus proper lounge layouts!

 

And if you want true reliability at a sensible price buy Japanese - not German cars!

 

At the expense of a jigsaw puzzle for a bed, lets face it the 2 places we spend most time in the van in are the cab seats & the bed. I'll keep my Isri seats & nice firm sprung mattress thank you. Last thing I want to do before going to bed is to do a jigsaw & I speak from experience having have several caravans the last one though was a German one with a fixed bed.

 

 

[Bazza454]

Tracker - 2010-02-08 8:56 PM

lennyhb - 2010-02-08 7:18 PM

michele - 2010-02-08 7:10 PM Judgmental , I do wish you would stop stuffing Germany down our throats :D

Best place to look for a van good prices good build quality.

  And if you want true reliability at a sensible price buy Japanese - not German cars!

Timings a bit unfortunate here Richard, given Toyotas current problems.....

[Lord Raindrop]

Brock,

 

Do I hear correct, a banker asking the public at large for a monetry decision ?

[mike 202]

 

And if you want true reliability at a sensible price buy Japanese - not German cars![/quote

 

But NOT Toyota ???

[GypsyTom]

It's a free country and I've no problem with people who wish to buy their 'vans in Germany - as long as they go there for their demonstrations and servicing.

However, I suspect that they don't and that they go to the local UK dealer to see a choice of 'vans, or they go to a UK show that's been paid for by the UK motorhome industry and then buy it from Germany because it's a bit cheaper.

They then expect a UK dealer to service it for them and sort out any problems! What if everyone did this? There would be no UK dealers left to look after all these parasitic people who live off their backs before buying from Germany or where ever!

I have a friend who slags off car main dealers and always buys from a car supermarket if he can. But guess where he goes for his test drive and to look at the various models? And guess whom he runs to when he wants a service or warranty repair?

I'm happy to buy a foreign 'van because buying a British 'van is mainly buying foreign anyway as the chassis and most of the fittings will be imported but I if I need service I want there to be a dealer within easy range and if we all buy from Germany there won't be any!

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

Tom, thats a bit jingoistic, I don't think you are being entirely serious, just provocative as is your style.

 

I have Ford based German built camper similar to what you have ordered. I Viewed it at the Düsseldorf show in Germany and ordered afterwards from a Belgian dealer who offers exemplary service. I get it serviced down the road at local Ford commercial dealership and pop into dealer when we leave the ferry on our way on holiday for the motorhome servicing. Are you seriously suggesting this is wrong, and I should take it back to Belgium for a service.

 

While I see where you are coming from, I don't agree with it, as it is the attitude of UK dealers that has driven many of us abroad.

 

 

[lennyhb]

Tom,

 

I have never been into a UK Motorhome dealer, a couple of phone calls to Brownhills to try & get a quote was enough to put me off for life.

Viewed at Düsseldorf brought in Belgium (and saved over 10 grand in the process) & take the van to Belgium for servicing.

I will admit to having the first service on the Fiat done in the UK but only because of the gearbox problems in future it will be serviced in Belgium.

 

If UK dealers charged realistic prices and gave good service levels I would buy in the UK. How can you justify a £10,000 price hike over Belgium /German prices where the UK dealer was 10 times size of the Belgium dealer therefore probably buying at a price advantage, also Brownhills quoted £1700 delivery charge, standard Hymer delivery charge anywhere in Europe is 500€ (£350 at the time of the quote).

Also Brownhills charge £170 for the annual damp check it's 60€ in Belgium.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

colin - 2010-02-08 9:27 PM

Have you seen the Autocruise range lately ;-) :D

 

Yes - and I am not impressed!

[Guest Tracker]

Bazza454 - 2010-02-08 10:52 PM

Timings a bit unfortunate here Richard, given Toyotas current problems.....

What a load of rubbish blown out of all proportion by blood thirsty media, lawyers and the PC brigade all intent on seeing the worst side of anything and everything just as long as it makes them a few quid.I have a Toyota - my fourth over many years - and they are without doubt the most reliable, well built and dependable cars that I have ever owned - they just do not go wrong - well mine don't.You do have to wonder whether anyone unable to adjust their cars carpets so that they do not impede the pedals has sufficient brain power to hold a driving license?

[Guest JudgeMental]

I was disgusted by the BBC News the other morning where the male newscaster was tearing into the UK MD of Toyota. the chap was getting on a bit and came across as a quiet, genuine man. But the newscaster was in full on bullying mode........It was disgraceful

 

For the first time in my life I felt like complaining,(to the BBC :-D ) if I had not been watching it in bed I would have got a pen for the details.*-)

[Bazza454]

Tracker - 2010-02-09 1:00 PM

Bazza454 - 2010-02-08 10:52 PM

Timings a bit unfortunate here Richard, given Toyotas current problems.....

What a load of rubbish blown out of all proportion by blood thirsty media, lawyers and the PC brigade all intent on seeing the worst side of anything and everything just as long as it makes them a few quid.

Not sure if the relatives of this poor family would agree with you Richard -

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/familys-toyota-deathcrash-call-released-2045189.html

[Guest Tracker]

I too sympathise with this family but surely switching off the engine or knocking it into neutral (can you do this on an auto at speed?) would have helped. Certainly switching the engine off would have brought the car to a standstill.

 

Is it fair to condem a whole range of cars accross the brand because one part on one car fails? I think not although mass hysteria seems to be setting in to make it happen? Maybe the American media have a vested interest in reducing the number of Japaneses cars sold in the USA - I don't know?.

 

If one Boeing 747 crashes do you refuse to fly on another? Maybe an unfair comparison but I hope it helps make the point?

 

I do know one thing and that is if I were inthe market for a new car right now it might be a good time to do a deal on a Toyota!

 

Pity the Fiat gearbox issue did not raise similar media interest?

[nowtelse2do]

Tracker  Pity the Fiat gearbox issue did not raise similar media interest?

When or if it does kill someone, then it will..!!

Dave

[Bazza454]

Richard, like you I have had a number of Toyotas, i'm currently on my third Rav and cannot fault the reliability and build quality of any of them.

Toyota are certainly no worse than any of the other major manufacturers with the number of recalls, but the way that they have handled the current issues is a Public Relations disaster.

When the time comes to replace my current Rav, would I buy another Toyota? Yes, without doubt.

[colin]

Bazza454 - 2010-02-09 3:35 PM

Not sure if the relatives of this poor family would agree with you Richard -

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/familys-toyota-deathcrash-call-released-2045189.html

I think it proves richards case, didn't think to knock it into nuetral, turn off engine, or just stand on the brakes, but had time to make a 911 call! sounds very suspect to me.