A view on viewing one's rear view

[Lord Raindrop]

Rear view mirrors.

 

The driver here being male.

 

A study was made some while ago that it was safer to drive using both outside L&R mirrors and no interior mirror.

 

The angle of one’s head when driving is mostly at a constant and slightly downward position, thereby enabling the driver to glance into his side mirrors without altering his head angle. (No lack of forward vision).

 

When an interior mirror is used the driver has in most instances to raise the head upwards and angle it away from the forward line of view, the time taken for this manoeuvre, although minimal, can be enough to allow a hazardous situation to enter the normal line of view, (Which can on occasions be miss read).

 

When driving there are 5 visual areas to be aware of at all times, this includes the rear.

 

Forward vision; left and right sides; plus the rear left and rear right; When glancing left and right as a normal procedure the driver will automatically include his two rear view side mirrors thereby reducing eye and neck strain by not having to raise the head to look into a singular and smaller interior mirror, which, being small and of a different luminous intensity value, to which the brain will first have to adjust, plus the concentrated and reflected view, thereby increasing the absence of forward viewing time.

 

By the simple excercise of moving the head left and right (only), the whole surrounding area is constantly re-viewed at every moment in time.

 

HGV drivers are considered as some of the world’s better drivers. They use no interior mirrors.

 

[naittaw]

HGV drivers dont use interior rear view mirrors but they cannot see what is directly behind them - the cause of not a few accidents I believe !

[Porky]

Seems fairly obvious to me. I can't see through the back of my van so use wing mirrors. On my motorbike I use wing mirrors with a quick glance over the shoulder if needs be. In my car I use all the mirrors.

My big complaint about mirrors, whichever you use is that they are not used enough to build up a running picture of what is happening behind and therefore you are not having to make a decision based on one image. Riding a motorcycle improves your skill with this. That is one of the reasons why everyone should learn to ride a motorcycle before learning to drive a car.

What I can't also understand is why do people need to look over their shoulder when parking!! Totally unnecessary. Do they still expect you to do it this way on your driving test*-)

[Bazza454]

When I was taking my driving test in a bus, many, many years ago (never took a test in a car), the examiner made it very clear that during the test he would ask me what colour the car was immediately behind me without me checking my mirrors at that point. He did this on a number of occasions during the test. I have always tried to remember this, it certainly makes you concentrate on what's happening all around you.

Just in case you're wondering, although it was a very long time ago, no, all the cars were not black.....

 

[bob b]

I remember when I took my HGV licence course in a fire engine, I had to learn to reverse, weaving in and out of a line of cones and then finish in a marked box. The box was at right angles to the line of cones.

Because of that training I've always been comfortable reversing using just the door mirrors. Perhaps reversing training should be more fully addressed in the car driving lessons.

[Lord Raindrop]

BobP

 

That reminds me of army training days in a 3 ton Austin truck (at Ashford Kent), they made us reverse all round a large test area in and out of trees and bollards using only mirrors, sometimes with no mirrors by following a director in front using pump action hand signals, we then had to do the directing.

 

Reversing in confined spaces is mostly a simply matter of looking and remembering the layout,

 

Mike

[colin]

Having riden in a PV where the driver got in without assessing what was behind and then tried to reverse by looking over his shoulder, it makes you wonder how much NCB's they can build up

[Stuart]

I don't have an interior mirror as there is no rear window. I do have a camera which is on permanently. The screen is off centre on the dash in front of me so I don't need to do the stargazing bit in a rear view mirror. I find it much more convenient to use, just glancing down slightly from the road

 

Stuart

[peterjl]

Hi

 

there is a window in the back but i can see nothing - so i use side mirrors - however i also tow a bike on a trailer so i attache an old fishing rod on the back covered in dayglow tape that i can easily see through back window - i know its still there when reversing camera not on and makes reversing easier .

 

This post also reminded me of when my daughter was learning to drive - she had lessons but could not get the hang of reversing sooo we took my wifes old Fiat Uno over to a car park one sunday evening and she spent 2 hours driving soley in reverse - that taught her how to drive in reverse but my wifes car was never quite the same again!

 

Peter

[Mel B]

Having learnt to drive round and round a local park in my pre-hubby's Ford Corsair I had some of the basics. Then, after I had passed my motorcycle licence and we'd got married, we were able to afford a Reliant Robin van which I could then drive legally with my bike licence (yes, I know it was a stupid rule to think that someone with a bike licence could drive a 3 wheeled car but it was allowed so I did!). Anyway, even though I could see through the back window of the van the visibility was very limited (think letter box), so I had to rely mostly on the wing mirrors.

 

In order to take my driving test I took 6 driving lessons, to familiarise myself with the requirements, using the instructor's 4 wheeled car with windows all round (pure luxury!). The first problem I had was that the instructor didn't think I was using the mirrors at all! I never moved my head to glance either way, just moving my eyes, so he couldn't tell that I was checking, so he insisted on changing the mirror angles slightly so I had to!

 

The next problem was when he asked me to do a reverse round a corner (remember that?), I did it absolutely perfectly without having to physically turn around (after checking that 'round the corner' was clear), just using the mirrors - he actually got out to check just how far from the kerb I was when I'd finished as he didn't believe I could do it and suggested that it was just a fluke. So just to be certain he made me do it again, and again; it was perfect each time.

 

It was only when he realised my Reliant was a van rather than a saloon that it clicked that I had no choice but to be able to do it with just the wing mirrors. I must admit that now, I still use the wing mirrors much more than I use the internal mirror.

[Derek Uzzell]

Lord Raindrop - 2010-02-09 12:11 PM

 

A study was made some while ago that it was safer to drive using both outside L&R mirrors and no interior mirror.

 

I'd like to read that study to find out what the starting-point criteria were.

 

Many cars now have 'stylish' exterior mirrors that provide unsatisfactory rearwards images and produce significant reflective ghosting (my Skoda's mirrors are like that).

 

Me, I'll use everything that's available mirror-wise and, if a vehicle has a massive blind-spot directly behind it (as the majority of coachbuilt motorhomes do), I want something to overcome that limitation.

 

My motorhome's rear-view camera is set up to do literally that - provide a view of what's going on behind. I'm not particularly interested in using the system to be able to reverse within a gnat's whisker of a wall, but I do want to know whether someone has managed to sneak into the motorhome's blind-spot and is now driving inches from my rear bumper (particularly if that someone is a French traffic-cop on a big blue BMW!)

 

The primary reason that HGV drivers just use exterior mirrors for rear vision is that there's no practicable alternative. It doesn't stop them having a plethera of other mirrors to check the vehicle's front corners, kerb position, etc. and I very much doubt that they'd reject out of hand a rear-view camera system if it were offered. I notice too that all large modern coaches are universally fitted with rear cameras.

[Brian Kirby]

When I read the first posting on this string, I was unsure what the point was.  To be honest, I still am.  At first sight, it appears to be a plea for abandoning a clear view to the immediate rear of a (presumably) motorhome.  Surely that is almost as absurd as some of the claims made within the post, and equally some of those made above.

HGV drivers do not, as a rule, parallel park in streets.  I do not doubt that some can, but equally do not doubt that most would welcome assistance in doing so.  They are, indeed highly skilled drivers, and since that is what they do day in and day out, so they should be.  Motorhome drivers, on the other hand, tend to drive motorhomes in fits and starts, and should not be expected to have honed their skills to the same extent.  It is also true that HGVs are, generally, unlikely to suffer any damage should they misjudge a slow speed manoeuvre (though any object they contact is liable to lose the contest!) whereas motorhomes, being mainly of "chicken poop and lard" construction, will almost invariably suffer expensive damage.  I'm not saying this influences attitudes unduly but, having recently watched the driver of a artic' take out a set of traffic lights that fouled the blind side of his semi-trailer - without damage to the trailer - I just don't think the driver of a motorhome would have taken the same risk!

The great, and obvious danger, when reversing, is that others do not always do the wise thing and wait for the reversing vehicle to complete its manoeuvre before walking, or driving, behind.  While looking in one external rear view mirror, you cannot see in the other, and it is more than possible for someone or some thing to nip behind the vehicle from the "blind" side.  While manoeuvring in tight spaces one needs to watch not only the mirrors, but also the corner clearances, often on diagonally opposite sides of the vehicle, so one has to move very slowly, and with pauses as one surveys from side to side.  These pauses are often misinterpreted as an invitation to walk, or drive behind.  A full view to the rear enables one to see the unwise and intemperate, and plain bloody stupid, of which the world is filled, and avoid flattening the baby buggy that has suddenly arrived while one was looking elsewhere.  There but for the Grace of God is fine - until God's Grace is temporarily suspended while watching the front offside against the rather inconsiderately parked adjoining car, that was not there when one arrived!

There is also the point Derek mentions regarding followers who "hide" in the blind spot.  Not just the French fuzz, but teenagers on mopeds in towns, whose confidence that everyone else on the road will have noted their presence, and be watching their every move with rapt attention, knows no bounds!  Drivers of cars who follow in the blind spot for miles, and then decide, apparently on a whim, to overtake approaching a bend, around which inevitably one of their fellow countrymen hurtles at the critical moment. 

No, give me a nice clear view to the rear every time: one can avoid getting caught out by the antics of others so much better if one can see them!  I have a rear view camera that allows me to continually monitor what is behind the van, and switches to a wider angle look down view while reversing, that allows me to spot those who are about to blunder into my rearwards path from "stage left".  It is of at least equal value to the mirrors: I sometimes think more valuable, and I pay it at least equal attention while driving forwards, and much closer attention while reversing because it, alone, gives me the view the mirrors cannot provide.  Having no rear window, an interior mirror would be useless.  In the car, I look directly out of the back window when reversing: mirrors are no substitute for for the full width view so gained.

Try reversing at 20MPH on a (preferably :-)) quiet road, on mirrors alone, if you want to see what I mean!

[AliB]

Plenty of lorry drivers use reversing cameras. I know 'cos I work for a company that sells them. Buses are now fitting reversing cameras. Two per vehicle for First Group Leeds. How I wish we had that contract!

Also becoming popular is Side View cameras. These are particularly good at viewing cyclists who sneak up the inside of stationary traffic at road junctions, unaware the lorry is turning left until -splat.

All this technolgy is becoming more affordable and will have wide spread use. A bit daft to say, when I was an HGV driver we never needed it.

[catinou]

I used a van (white of course! :-D ) for a number of years and have found since that I cannot reverse as well with my head turned backwards - as I can just using wing mirrors.

Horses for courses? ;-)