ALcamp Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hi Know where I can find out about a Auto Power Changer, I tried www.pole-to-pole-electronics.co.uk but the web site could not be found Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Have you tried a google search using different words meaning the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hi is this the kind of thing you are after http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAINS-POLARITY-CHANGEOVER-SWITCH_W0QQitemZ280417470396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item414a2f07bc, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALcamp Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hi Thanks Corky I had a look but it is manual and the one I'm after is a automatic changer (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Contact Dave Newell - he fits them. davenewell.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Thanks Jasper but I only have the manual unit. To be honest I've nevere found or seen an automatic one. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I have seen auto ones but years ago. I thought under IEE regs polarity changers are technically illegal. IEE regs state clearly how electrical points should be wired if it is then possible to reverse that wiring I don't see how it can be legal. For the same reason you will not find any commercially made polarity reversed adaptors. If you are worried about reverse polarity why not just change your sockets to double pole switched or unswitched ones. Dave, If you fitted a polarity change over & the customer had an injury do to the polarity being incorrect could you be held liable? Years ago when I worked for W4 I refused to consider making them for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Although GOOGLE-ing indicates (or appears to indicate!) that there are patents for automatic polarity reversing devices, there seems to be no evidence that they are commercially available nowadays. All I found were links to manual 'switches' like the one shown on the following website: http://www.riverswayleisure.co.uk/acatalog/30600.html As lennyhb says, there are work-around ploys, but installing a polarity reversing device will be the simplest and most fail-safe approach as it addresses the (perceived) problem at source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 A short plug / socket lead, labelled as "Reverse polarity" does it for me. Suspect most do the same. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 "Dave, If you fitted a polarity change over & the customer had an injury do to the polarity being incorrect could you be held liable?" I don't see any reason why I could be held responsible. The polarity changeover unit has an audible warning of reversed polarity as well as different coloured LEDS for correct or reversed polarity. I provide all users with clear instructions on how to use the unit both in written and verbal forms with a demonstration. The unit also warns of no earth situations which are potentially more dangerous. If a user ignores all this and manages to injure themselves because of a reversed polarity situation (which in itself is extremely unlikely) then the problem is entirely theirs. As for whether or not reversed polarity is dangerous, well why do we insist on wiring electrical plugs correctly if it wasn't important? :D D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raindrop Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I would never wish to own a manual power changer, its so easy to carry an additional reverse polarity device. All that is needed is a short stub of a connection say about 1 foot from the source to your normal long connection. The continental connection pins are a different shape anyway, if that's what you had in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 davenewell@home - 2010-02-13 2:19 PM "Dave, If you fitted a polarity change over & the customer had an injury do to the polarity being incorrect could you be held liable?" I don't see any reason why I could be held responsible. The polarity changeover unit has an audible warning of reversed polarity as well as different coloured LEDS for correct or reversed polarity. I provide all users with clear instructions on how to use the unit both in written and verbal forms with a demonstration. The unit also warns of no earth situations which are potentially more dangerous. If a user ignores all this and manages to injure themselves because of a reversed polarity situation (which in itself is extremely unlikely) then the problem is entirely theirs. As for whether or not reversed polarity is dangerous, well why do we insist on wiring electrical plugs correctly if it wasn't important? :D D. Dave, I am just concerned with this modern attitude of sue anyone over anything, that if there was a problem I don't think your liability insurance would pay up as the wiring would contravene the IEE Regs. It is only with UK wiring that polarity is important other countries use double pole MCB' & switches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I don't believe this unit does contravene the regs as its purpose is to correct wrong polarity and warn both by audible and visual means of reversed polarity and/or no earth situations. If I was concerned about being sued over things like this then I'd never fit anything, how about cruise control for example. Some mindless eejit sets the CC and heads into the back for a coffee and his van is written off so he sues me because I fitted the CC for him? I know the Winnebago story is an urban myth but I think you get my point. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 lennyhb - 2010-02-13 3:52 PM Dave, I am just concerned with this modern attitude of sue anyone over anything, that if there was a problem I don't think your liability insurance would pay up as the wiring would contravene the IEE Regs. It is only with UK wiring that polarity is important other countries use double pole MCB' & switches. I can understand the concern, but I assume that Dave would follow the manufactures instructions for installation, Red wire to the L , earth to earth, Etc, So how could he be liable ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 No one is doubting Dave's capabilities it's the idiot end user despite all the warnings could switch to the incorrect polarity. Most of the time it would not cause any problems. From a personal point of view polarity is not a concern to me as my van has unswitched sockets & I think anything I am likely to plug in is double insulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 lennyhb - 2010-02-13 9:19 PM ...it's the idiot end user despite all the warnings could switch to the incorrect polarity... If I were an "idiot end user" and had any inkling of my technical-knowledge shortcomings, I'm sure I'd prefer to get a professional like Dave to install a polarity-swapping switch in my motorhome, rather than attempt the daunting task of creating a change-over power-cable adapter myself. On the other hand, perhaps such a hypothetical dope might think reverse polarity was an unusual Eastern European marital practice. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 The starting point, before worrying too much about reversed polarity, is to understand how the van is actually wired. Ours, rather like Lenny's, is polarity neutral. That is to say it is wired to mainland German standards, for sale in Germany. It has double pole MCBs, and an RCD main switch. All sockets are unswitched. It is designed to allow the power to "flow" in either direction through its system, while providing equal protection of circuits and people whatever may be served up. I understand that some UK manufactured vans now adopt this principle, and for these, a reversed polarity supply should not be a safety issue.If the more normal UK practise of installing SP MCBs (only in the "live" circuits), with SP switched socket outlets, has been adopted, then the reversed polarity "live" supply will by-pass the SP MCBs in the main panel, and the socket outlet switch, to give an unprotected live feed where the neutral should be. This means that the live circuits are devoid of overload protection right up to any connected appliance. That does contravene what IEE says, but is a supply and not a wiring fault, which IEE does not, to my knowledge address. If it did, I suspect, following their logic, they would call for the supply fault to be remedied. I am told that most modern appliances sold on the UK market now have DP on-off switches so that, even with internal faults, they will be "safe" when plugged in and that a risk will not arise until actually switched "on". Most, so far as I know virtually all, are also double insulated, so the safety risk in normal use should be pretty much eliminated. The main residual risk, given an RCD main switch, would be fire from overload of an unprotected "live" circuit where the MCB (now on the "neutral" feed) did not trip in response. I guess this would be possible if a low amperage circuit had become bridged onto a higher amperage circuit inside the main panel, so that the "live" feed was up the lighter cable, but was returning via a heavier duty MCB intended to protect a heavier cable. In the absence of a RCD main switch, a similar fault could arise if the circuit bridged to earth, but most site feeders also now have RCD on them, so the supply should disconnect at source rather than at the van. The terminals inside most mains panels are well shrouded, and it is very difficult to see how a loose wire, possibly loosened by vibration while travelling, might actually contact properly clamped wires on other circuits. The other possibility is a wiring error on assembly. Both are possible, but relatively unlikely, and would need to occur in conjunction with some other fault to cause a real problem. So, a very low risk, but with potentially nasty consequences.The upshot is that it seems to me only worth worrying (slightly! :-)) over reversed polarity if the installation in the van is based on UK standard SP MCBs in the main panel. Of greater concern, is that there should be an RCD main switch. Under these circumstances there is a small benefit to safety from correcting polarity, so that things are working as designed.On the other hand, if the wiring is of "continental" type, with DP MCBs, and an RCD main switch, it is really of no consequence how polarity is arranged and not worth trying to correct it. At any rate, that is my take on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALcamp Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hi Thanks for all the info, will get a plug and socket and make one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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