Poppy Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 E S Hartley have rung today to say that we will not be getting our Siesta.Nothing sinister, Hobby just aren't making that particular model in RHD.They have offered us our old van and money back OR another van of our choice.I feel they have behaved well in difficult circumstances that are not of their making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Poppy, I quite agree, however Hobby UK and Hobby Germany should stop advertising that ' each and every motor home is still hand built by a team of experienced artisans TO UK SPECIFICATION WITH RIGHT HAND DRIVE CAB ' and their list on page 204 of the MMM INCLUDES Siesta and Siesta Exclusive. methinks right arm (uk) should start talking to the left arm (germany) BEFORE they start advertising. Wish you and your husband luck, whatever you decide to do. Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Ah! So Roland rat was right it was around the back! :D (That was a JOKE for those who do not "get" forum etiquette :-D ) What you going to do? I would get the van back and have a holiday you deserve it! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Well done Poppy nice to hear you have result. I would agree with Eddie get the van & cash back then the pressure is off and you can relax & plan the next move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Actually to be fair Hobby uk have really tried to put pressure on the Hobby factory.Its their lousy customer service.I want to get hold of them and tell them what I think of them.Perhaps if everyone had been a little more open earlier it would have saved us a lot of stress and worry BUT that is all and I just want to put the record straight for E S Hartleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Well done to Hartleys, and all the best to you Poppy - whichever you decide to do. I hope we've not added to your stress by all the headbanging that's been going on here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 So, can you switch to a "Van", or is the 2010 order book now closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Thanks for the update poppy glad the dealer is doing all they can to help you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hi Poppy Pleased the outcome has not been detrimental financially. Without the full facts, it appears that Hobby are in default IF Hobby (UK or Germany) had accepted the Hartley order for your new M/H and later decided not to build the RHD model, they are in "breach of contract" and you should be recompensed for loss of enjoyment of the new M/H. Had the reverse situation applied & you decided to pull out of the deal, you certainly would have lost your deposit to the dealer. Likewise Hartley's can justifiable claim loss of profit on the frustrated contract. I assume there were specific reasons you chose the Hobby product and therefore you will now not be able to obtain an acceptable alternative M/Hduring 2010 for a new order placed in the near future. As I stated earlier, it is still worthwhile discussing with Trading Standards for their advise. Then "just maybe" manufacturer's may not be so quick to frustrate order commitments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hi Poppy Pleased the outcome has not been detrimental financially. Without the full facts, it appears that Hobby are in default IF Hobby (UK or Germany) had accepted the Hartley order for your new M/H and later decided not to build the RHD model, they are in "breach of contract" and you should be recompensed for loss of enjoyment of the new M/H. Had the reverse situation applied & you decided to pull out of the deal, you certainly would have lost your deposit to the dealer. Likewise Hartley's can justifiable claim loss of profit on the frustrated contract. I assume there were specific reasons you chose the Hobby product and therefore you will now not be able to obtain an acceptable alternative M/Hduring 2010 for a new order placed in the near future. As I stated earlier, it is still worthwhile discussing with Trading Standards for their advise. Then "just maybe" manufacturer's may not be so quick to frustrate order commitments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Brian going to look at a 2009 very upspeced Van. See if it suits.I would just love toget Hobby Germany but bet it never happens.Yup they left us,\hobbyuk and Hartleys scrabbling round trying to sort the mess out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Whilst I'm really pleased that you're getting sorted out, Hartley's are not entirely blameless in all of this, even though they have been trying to sort it out, you should not have been put in this situation in the first place and have to find out about it yourself, so I hope they are going to look after you very well indeed. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Poppy, I am very pleased for you that this seems to be working out. Just one thought though... you are getting your old van back. Does that not strike anyone as a bit suspect when initially they said that they had traded it out? Perhaps certain people who were derided on the other thread for suggesting there was something smelly going on were not too far off the mark. Apart from the clearly unacceptable personal comments that came from certain corners it seems there were more heroes than villains out there and most contributors were right to suggest keeping faith in the dealer while being cautious or even suspicious of certain aspects of what had been said. It was more balanced and less hysterical than some thought and I hope that such a broad spread of opinions would always be encouraged here. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hartleys will have to buy our old van back if that is what we decide and it will no doubt be a loss to them which they are prepared to bear.Having spoken to Peter at Hobbyuk this am I even sympathize with Hobby Germany.The motorhome industry on the continent has all but collapsed.Hobby have put all their workers on a 3 day week but to their credit they are keeping everyone on, they are also keeping their excellent apprentaship scheme going as well which is important for so many reasons.Its the recession, its still biting sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waite Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Many of you are aware of the situation that we at E S Hartley have found ourselves in with regard to the purchase of a new RHD Hobby by forum contributor "Poppy" and we would like to set the record straight on number fo issues. We, like Poppy are extremely unhappy about the non supply of the vehicle by Hobby and are working tirelessly to reslove the situation. We took the order in good faith in the same way as we have done with the hudreds of new motorhomes that we have supplied over the years. The reason we took the part exchange early was that it was worth more at the time of trade-in rather than if we had waited 5 months until the new vehicle was delivered when the part exchange would have had a further 5 months depreciation. We did this with the full co-operation of our customer. We placed the order with Hobby and did not expect any problems. The part exchange was traded on to a colleage in the motor trade. All of these actions have a paper trail and we invite any of the forum members to come and view the paperwork if they think something underhand has occurred. We have ascertained that the part exchange has not been sold so we are in a position to buy it back and have offered Poppy either the return of her motorhome and deposit or, alternatively, to honour the part exchange price and supply an alternative motorhome. We are a family owned business with an excellent reputation. Thank you to the forum members who have taken a realistic view and appreciated the position we were placed in. To the other forum members who have left negative comments we would like to reassure you that not every business is out there to rip people off or make a fast buck - there are businesses like ourselves that only survive against the big motorhome dealer groups out there because of our high levels of service and because we care about each and every one of our customers. We can and will resolve this situation with Poppy. In the meantime if anybody wishes to contact us please feel free to telephone 01539 822450 and ask for Simon Waite. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Eddie, I purposely kept quiet on this one, yes I did mention different ways to help Poppy to resolve her concerns but I would have gone much further because I believe possession is nine tenths of the law. It now looks like the dealer hadn't sold the motorhome after all but as we have no idea of the contents of the order that was placed it wouldn't be fair to misjudge him as we only have Poppy's version of events. One of the lads made a comment who was a retired bank manager regarding companies going into liquidation, when this happens a liquidator is appointed and he seizes all the assets which in this case would include Poppy's motorhome and any money deposit that was included, it would have been a total loss for her. No order should be placed with any dealer who demands a trade in motorhome up front, if it is suggested then walk away. At the end of the day a dealer is in business to make a living and he will know all the tricks of his trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I completely agree, and.... If as the dealer states Poppy agreed to give the part exchange to the dealer to sell 5 MONTHS before they expected to get their new van without receiving the part ex money to put in their own bank while waiting then one or both parties are completely barking! Whatever the reputation of the dealer and their good intentions.... is someone winding me up? Why the hell would anyone consent to such a ludicrously risky and financially disadvantaged deal? 5 MONTHS; NO MONEY; NO VAN! Madness! I am sorry, but I just could not contain that any longer. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 It must be awful being the type of person who wakes up every morning thinking that someone is going to rip him off! Rolandrat says: "It now looks as though the dealer hadn't sold the motorhome...." but in the dealer's post above he states quite clearly that he did sell it on to another dealer and has a paper trail to prove it. Fortunately he was able to buy it back. As for this 'madness' that Euroserv goes on about perhaps if he had contained himself a bit longer and thought about it he may have worked out why it should have benefited every one. Poppy agrees to a part-ex in say November. The dealer is confident that the new motorhome will be here in March, because that's what he's been quoted by the importer. Now Poppy has no holidays planned until Spring and by letting the her old 'van go in November she gets another thousand or so because the 'van is five months younger than if it sat on her drive doing nothing for that five months, plus she doesn't have to tax and insure it for that period. Everybody wins, Hartleys get a bit longer to sell it or trade it on, whichever suits them at the time. Poppy gets a higher trade-in price and doesn't have to worry about storing and insuring the 'van during a period when she isn't using it anyway. Regrettably, it all went wrong when Hobby let everyone down and failed to supply the new motorhome as originally promised. Hartley's, being a respectable and old-established business immediately went into overdrive to try to salvage the situation and they appear to have done so. I suspect that Hartley's may have done similar deals before which have gone through smoothly to everyone's benefit. Will they do it again? Possibly not. Having been badly let down by Hobby they may well never do a trade-in until the new 'van is in their showroom. What is obvious here, and what the usual suspects refuse to accept is that there was never any intention to cheat anyone. I also suspect that they did not 'demand' the part-ex but merely suggested it, but of course that doesn't sit well with the conspiracy theories of some of our forum members. The attitude of some of you is summed up in one telling phrase by one person earlier on when he said: "Hartley's have probably sold it at a fat profit". Not sold it at a profit you understand but a 'fat profit' as though every transaction a dealer does is somehow corrupt and unfair. Why are people so unfair, unkind, suspicious and downright insulting? Not all businesses are run by charlatans. Customers are often the biggest thieves and many of them will lie and cheat with the best of them if they can put a few extra quid in their pockets. If a dealer lies and cheats he has a lot more to lose than a customer. If his reputation is shattered he has a damn site more to lose than any individual client. Finally, it goes without saying that if you do enter into a similar arrangement with a dealer whom you trust, you get paperwork signed that proves that the 'van is yours until the deal is completed and that any monies obtained in the meantime are held in your name. It shouldn't be too complicated to get a signed agreement with those points outlined and agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hello Waite & thank you for your contribution explaining Hartley's position. However despite the reputation of any dealer (large or small) the old adage of "Buyer Beware" has to be expressed in the circumstances applicable in the original & this thread. It has to be considered unusual for a dealer to request a customer's M/H at the time of order, then plus a deposit. The Motorhome on top of a deposit is IMHO over the top, invites cyniscism & to many participants in this thread startsed the alarm bells ringing. One question:- If Hobby accepted Hartlet's Order for Poppy's new motorhome, surely they are in breach of contract and should be pursued as such.? They can hardly claim insufficient capacity if their employees are on a 3 day week. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I think valuable lessons have been learnt here. but really think its time to put the recriminations and thread to bed :-D had never heard of E S Hartley which is positive in some respects as you only really get to hear about the poor dealerships. I hope this puts them on the map and is a positive for them. Other forum have a dealer presence maybe we have now as well :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Tom Once again you make some good points but it would be kinda nice if you could make them in a less abrasive manner please, as your points would then have more value for being made in answer to the subject matter without having a go at the person. I hope that is not an unreasonable suggestion just because it came from me as I have no antagonism towards you - unless you decide to have another go at me that is! On the basis of the way this seems to have turned out I would be happy to buy a van through Hartleys - but no way would I part with my van whilst waiting for a new one given the propensity for delays that the delivery of new vans seem to be burdened with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Totally agree Tom, Hartleys have acted in good faith and have even come on here to put their point of view. The offer to examine the paper trail, which no one will take up, points to everything being above board. Nick at Euroserve may service a few vans but plainly has no idea of how the sales business in m/h works. The idea of giving the dealer a van early over the winter months is fairly common, I did it myself two years ago with Spinneys. I did have a few safeguards it is true but have no reason to think anyone was trying to rip me off. What a sad sorry lot some of you are and it is nice to see that Poppy kept her sense of pospective and did not take some of the very bad advice offered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Poppy - 2010-02-11 12:33 PM I even sympathize with Hobby Germany.The motorhome industry on the continent has all but collapsed.Hobby have put all their workers on a 3 day week but to their credit they are keeping everyone on, they are also keeping their excellent apprentaship scheme going as well which is important for so many reasons.Its the recession, its still biting sadly. I wouldn't worry too much about them Poppy, remember YOU are their reason for existance, 'A paying customer, eager and waiting for one of their products' If they can't and wont satisfy YOU, then they have no hope. They should be 'bending over backwards' to keep your order. Think of how many other 'potential orders' in the UK this stupid decision will have cost them, and a worthless full page Ad. in the MMM won't have come cheap either. Fair Play to Hartleys though, hope you end up satisfied. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 euroserv - 2010-02-11 6:45 PM I completely agree, and.... If as the dealer states Poppy agreed to give the part exchange to the dealer to sell 5 MONTHS before they expected to get their new van without receiving the part ex money to put in their own bank while waiting then one or both parties are completely barking! Whatever the reputation of the dealer and their good intentions.... is someone winding me up? Why the hell would anyone consent to such a ludicrously risky and financially disadvantaged deal? 5 MONTHS; NO MONEY; NO VAN! Madness! I am sorry, but I just could not contain that any longer. NickI quite agree Nick. Madness is puting it mildly. You know the old saying? there's one born every minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Please guys - don't let this end up as yet another p*ssing contest or slanging match! We all have our views, and it is obvious that not everyone thinks the same thing, but one thing we should all agree on is that Poppy is now getting the matter sorted out and hopefully will be happy with the outcome. Ultimately it is up to Poppy and her husband as to what they agree to with Hartleys, so lets not risk upsetting what is currently a 'more level' apple cart for her, and wait for her to report back on progress. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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