Renault trafic

[patches]

Hi,

I am looking for advice please. I was out in my van, my passenger said that she could smell a "burning smell" intermittently, I couldn't smell anything. I had driven about 20 miles (M'way) pulled off to go into town and stopped for about 5 minutes, I then restarted the van, drove about 100 yards and had the minimum oil level warning light come on. I went straight to the garage and topped up with a litre of oil. The dipstick showed as on maximum, I started the engine again but the light did not go out. The engine did not feel as though it had full power and did not rev. I tried to drive the van and although it pulled away it then spluttered a bit, with a great loss of power, so I pulled over and phoned the recovery.

 

I have since taken it into the garage and the mechanic has looked at it. He states that the oil level sensor switch must be broken, that he topped up the van with a litre of oil as he said it was not up to the maximum level. He advises that replacing the sensor switch is going to be very expensive as it is positioned in the sump, and that if it was his van he wouldn't replace it.

 

I drove the van home, only a very short distance and it appeared to have the usual amount of power.

 

Would anyone offer advice on whether I should replace the switch or would it be ok to leave it? Is there likely to be another problem too as I don't know where the litre of oil I put into the van has disappeared to, the van does not leak oil and there is no smoke coming from the exhaust. Is there anything else I should be checking for?

 

Many thanks

 

Edited to add that it is a diesel 2500cc

[George Collings]

It always helps to know the vehicles age and mileage.

 

If the engine is well worn it may have gradually burnt the oil, I fear due to low oil level it ran hot and began to seize but you stopped before a complete seizure occured. The the rough running that went after the engine cooled indicates this may have been the case.

 

The extra oil added by your mechanic suggests it is still using oil. This may be due piston wear or a broken piston rings so that oil is passing up into the combustion chambers. In small doses this does not case to much smoke from the exhaust. In larger doses the smoke will be blue rather than black or white.

 

The best way to check for this type of wear is by a compression test. You may need to go to a diesel specialist as the pressures involved are much higher than a petrol engine.

 

Do not delay this test but if you do check the oil level evry 100 miles ( I presume you still have a dipstick)

 

Best of luck and I hope I am wrong.

 

 

 

 

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

With the engine cold, remove the coolant tank cap and make sure there is no oily residue either in the water or on the underside of the cap.

 

It used to be the commonly held belief that oil could only really disappear through the exhaust due to a worn engine or turbo, or on the floor through a leak but we have had to replace a lot of oil coolers (mostly on transits) over the last few years which normally have passed oil into the water system which then blows out the excess water via the overflow pipe until your coolant is replaced with oil, perishing the rubber hoses as it goes.

 

Just a thought, and it's easy to check especially if you are looking for over 2 litres of lost oil!

 

Nick

[patches]

George Collings - 2010-02-10 11:41 PM

 

It always helps to know the vehicles age and mileage.

 

If the engine is well worn it may have gradually burnt the oil, I fear due to low oil level it ran hot and began to seize but you stopped before a complete seizure occured. The the rough running that went after the engine cooled indicates this may have been the case.

 

The extra oil added by your mechanic suggests it is still using oil. This may be due piston wear or a broken piston rings so that oil is passing up into the combustion chambers. In small doses this does not case to much smoke from the exhaust. In larger doses the smoke will be blue rather than black or white.

 

The best way to check for this type of wear is by a compression test. You may need to go to a diesel specialist as the pressures involved are much higher than a petrol engine.

 

Do not delay this test but if you do check the oil level evry 100 miles ( I presume you still have a dipstick)

 

Best of luck and I hope I am wrong.

 

 

 

Many thanks for both of your replies.

 

The vehicle was first registered in 1995 and has done 33K., these are genuine miles and it has been regularly serviced.

 

Since the oil level sensor light came on, I drove the vehicle less than half a mile. I put the oil in at the garage and checked the dipstick straightaway - and then drove off the forecourt so the engine didn't have chance to cool at all.

 

Is there are likelihood that damage could have been caused to the engine prior to the oil sensor light coming on, as I only drove it half a mile with the light on?

 

With regard to the water coolant tank, there is no sign of any oil at all.

 

Once again thank you for your replies.

[Guest Tracker]

In days gone when the oil warning light came on it was to tell you that some damage had already been done due to lack of lubrication and the next thing to happen would be catastrophic failure if you did not stop forthwith!

 

All you can do is ensure that the oil is up to the dipstick mark and the oil is black not brown through emulsification with coolant - do not overfill as this too can cause damage - and the radiator topped up with clean unemulisfied water and anti freeze and try it again.

 

Clouds of blue smoke will tell you that you have an oil consumption problem and loud noises will tell you you have bearing, oil pump, water pump or camshaft problems!

[Brian Kirby]

First, does that warning light have any secondary warning function?  Many do.  Handbook should say.

Second, are you using a Renault dealership?  I ask because the reply that the oil level warning sensor "must be broken" sounds odd.  If it is defective, it should show so on the Renault diagnostics.

Third, you do not say, but I assume you checked the oil level on the dipstick before adding the litre of oil?  (You imply that you only checked the level after adding the oil.)

At the garage, your van took another litre of oil to bring it to the full mark.  What is the stated difference between the low oil and full marks on the dipstick?  Most handbooks will quote a figure, otherwise a Renault garage should be able to tell you, or find out.  This will tell you how far into the danger zone you may have strayed.

When was the van last serviced (miles and time)?  33,000 is a very low mileage for its age (15 years).  Have all of the time related servicing function been carried out (brake fluid changes, coolant changes, cambelt change etc)?

Do you normally rely on the oil level indicator, rather than using the dipstick?

Is the oil level warning light still on, or has it now gone off?

If there is no oil in the coolant, and vice versa, and all the other indicators are favourable, it would seem the oil level must have fallen substantially, causing the oil to overheat and thin, leading to greater than usual consumption, so further lowering its level.  If true, your engine was at the point of seizure when you stopped, and the remaining oil will have been "cooked".  Is it possible the filter, or even the filler cap, was not properly tightened last time the van was serviced?  Those two litres of oil (assuming they were put in!) must have gone somewhere, if it was not down the exhaust pipe.

Assuming all of the above can be answered favourably, I think you would be wise to get the present oil, and the filter, changed at the earliest opportunity, as a safeguard against any further damage.  Then take it for a good run to thoroughly warm it up, stop the van with the engine running for 10 minutes or so, and then rev it firmly and watch the exhaust.  If it produces bluish smoke when revved in this way, there may be a problem since, at the mileage, there should be negligible wear on piston rings,  valve seals, and turbo shaft seals.  However, after 15 years, at an average of only 2,000 miles per year, it is possible age has taken a toll where wear alone would not.

If all is OK, and there is no blue smoke, ignore the oil level monitor, and keep a sharp eye on the dip stick for a while and, above all, drive it!

[patches]

Brian Kirby - 2010-02-12 5:51 PM

First, does that warning light have any secondary warning function?  Many do.  Handbook should say.

Second, are you using a Renault dealership?  I ask because the reply that the oil level warning sensor "must be broken" sounds odd.  If it is defective, it should show so on the Renault diagnostics.

Third, you do not say, but I assume you checked the oil level on the dipstick before adding the litre of oil?  (You imply that you only checked the level after adding the oil.)

At the garage, your van took another litre of oil to bring it to the full mark.  What is the stated difference between the low oil and full marks on the dipstick?  Most handbooks will quote a figure, otherwise a Renault garage should be able to tell you, or find out.  This will tell you how far into the danger zone you may have strayed.

When was the van last serviced (miles and time)?  33,000 is a very low mileage for its age (15 years).  Have all of the time related servicing function been carried out (brake fluid changes, coolant changes, cambelt change etc)?

Do you normally rely on the oil level indicator, rather than using the dipstick?

Is the oil level warning light still on, or has it now gone off?

If there is no oil in the coolant, and vice versa, and all the other indicators are favourable, it would seem the oil level must have fallen substantially, causing the oil to overheat and thin, leading to greater than usual consumption, so further lowering its level.  If true, your engine was at the point of seizure when you stopped, and the remaining oil will have been "cooked".  Is it possible the filter, or even the filler cap, was not properly tightened last time the van was serviced?  Those two litres of oil (assuming they were put in!) must have gone somewhere, if it was not down the exhaust pipe.

Assuming all of the above can be answered favourably, I think you would be wise to get the present oil, and the filter, changed at the earliest opportunity, as a safeguard against any further damage.  Then take it for a good run to thoroughly warm it up, stop the van with the engine running for 10 minutes or so, and then rev it firmly and watch the exhaust.  If it produces bluish smoke when revved in this way, there may be a problem since, at the mileage, there should be negligible wear on piston rings,  valve seals, and turbo shaft seals.  However, after 15 years, at an average of only 2,000 miles per year, it is possible age has taken a toll where wear alone would not.

If all is OK, and there is no blue smoke, ignore the oil level monitor, and keep a sharp eye on the dip stick for a while and, above all, drive it!

Hi BrianThanks for your reply.The warning light according to the handbook is the minimum oil level warning light and is completely separate from the oil pressure warning light. On this occasion I got the breakdown driver to drop me off at a local garage. It is one I have used in the past for other vehicles and has a very good reputation locally, but no it is not a Renault dealership.Sorry, yes I checked the oil level before putting any oil in and it was about halfway between the minimum mark and the maximum mark.The handbook doesn’t give me a figure between min and max on the dipstick but capacity is 6.0 litres.The van was last serviced August 2008 at 29,000 miles, from the paperwork I have it appears that it has been serviced at the prescribed intervals, it had a cambelt changed at 24742 miles. This is a campervan which could explain the low mileage.I normally check the oil via the dipstick, not having used the camper a lot during the winter months, I have to admit it probably longer since I last checked it that it should have been. :(The oil level warning light is still on.The filler cap when I opened it was screwed on very tight.With regard to the 2 litres of oil – I know I definitely put in one litre and the garage didn’t charge much for their litre so I don’t think they were charging me for something they hadn’t put in.

[Brian Kirby]

Then, for my money, the oil level is not, and never was, the problem.  Halfway between max and min is just that: within the normally accepted range for the engine to be safely operated.

The interval since the last service sounds a bit long.  I would have thought, especially with such low mileage, that annual changes would be a safer bet.  However, I wouldn't expect that to have contributed to the rough running you experienced.

All of that suggests to me, on the assumption there are no unusual noises from the engine, that the problem lies with the electrics/electronics.  Is this a "drive by wire" electronically controlled injector, engine?  If it is, it may have been an injector protesting at being used after standing idle for some time.  I have experienced that on our Scenic, which I believe has a similar engine.  It was the consequence of standing for a couple of months while we were away.  Apparently the injector seals get a bit sticky, and the mechanism doesn't react as fully, and quickly, as it should.  Once back in regular use it gradually reverted to normal performance. 

Otherwise, possibly connected with the turbo (assuming it has one) and its management system.

If it now seems to drive OK, apart from the oil level warning light, I think continue driving it, as often as possible, and have a general look around under the bonnet after each trip, and especially at the dipstick, for the next few weeks.

The hot smell may just have been accumulated contensation drying off after it had stood unsused for some time.

If the light is just a warning light, and it would really be necessary to drop the sump to replace it, which again sounds odd, try disconnecting it, and revert to periodically checking the dipstick.  It's good to stick one's nose under the bonnet from time to time, if only to see how many bird's nests one can find!

[George Collings]

From memory your Trafic was the early model with the engine ahead of the transmission. The engine is probably a non turbo unit with a purely mechanical fuel injection system.

 

I just wonder if the rough running and oil level indicator problem are seperate issues that just happened at the same time.

 

I once had rough running on a similar diesel that appeared to be fuel starvation (which was correct) but in fact was caused by a loose eelctrical connection to the injection pump stop solenoid. Sqeezing the terminal cured the problem. In your case work on the oil indicator may have restored electrical continuity to the pump ( for a time ?)

[patches]

Thanks once again for your replies.

 

Even though it has been winter the van is driven at least once every two weeks on a 40 mile return journey.

 

I am arranging for it to have its next service and also finding out the price of replacing the oil level sensor switch - if that isn't too high a sum I will have it done - I really don't like driving with a red light showing.

 

Your advice has been helpful and is most appreciated, thank you. :-)