Randonneur Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 We have a 2002 Fiat Ducato that has a control panel that automatically charges the leisure battery and engine battery without any manual switchover (according to Laika Italy) when plugged into the mains electric. It seems as though it is charging the leisure battery correctly but is not charging the vehicle battery. When the engine is running then charge is going into the vehicle battery and when we attach a stand-alone solar panel this is also charging the vehicle battery. We had a permanent solar panel fitted last year and are wondering if there is a problem with the fitting although it seems to be working ok. Anyone any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I am just wondering if maybe the volts is not getting high enough on the leisure battery so it auto switches to charging the vehicle battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi, Do you mean that you are plugged into mains electric at same time as engine is running?? Without mains electric hookup, and engine running, I would expect engine battery to be charging as a priority. Parked up on site, no engine running but connected to mains, then priority would be leisure battery, Solar Panel output could be charging either, depending on which is lowest voltage if it is designed to auto switchover, that would make most sense. Not sure if it helps though. tonyg3nwl edited by tonyg3nwl to add "solar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Brambles - 2010-02-23 2:48 PM I am just wondering if maybe the volts is not getting high enough on the leisure battery so it auto switches to charging the vehicle battery. Sounds good to me. I'd also be wondering whether the charging-system ACTUALLY "automatically charges the leisure battery and engine battery without any manual switchover" in the first place. Just because Laika says it does doesn't necessarily make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If your van has an Elektroblok system then it could be similar to my Burstner. When on hook up, the main charge goes to the leisure battery and only a float charge goes to the vehicle battery. I believe it may only be a couple of amps. When the engine is running, the vehicle battery gets precedence but the leisure batteries still get a good charge rate. If I have been wilding for a few days, the charging rate to the leisure batteries is almost off the scale on the ammeter, once I start up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys but I don't think I explained it very well. When engine is running it charges the vehicle battery and leisure battery. When on EHU it only charges the leisure battery. I have spoken to Laika and they say and also it is in the manual that it should charge both batteries automatically. Just as an aside, our Friends who have a Laika older than ours, have a manual switchover system to change from charging the Vehicle to charging the leisure battery. The solar panel that we had fitted last year only charges the leisure battery. We were asked if we wanted it to charge the vehicle battery as well but unfortunately we said no. Regretting that decision now. It would seem that there is a problem with the mains vehicle charging side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 At the risk of sounding glib - how do you know the mains charger is not charging the vehicle battery? Do you have the battery voltages for each battery both with and without engine running and both with and without mains charger in operation? You will also need to disable the solar input to get true readings. How old are your batteries as in my experience batteries are far less reliable than charging systems - and easier to replace! If your engine battery is in need of constant charging it may be on the edge of becoming Kaput unless you ahve a radio on a lot or a power hungry alarm system? Before condeming anything as disfunctional I would prefer to see some proof in the form of mesurements. Thanks to Jon Bramble's expert coaching I'm getting better at batteries - I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Am I right in thinking the suggestion here is in the fitting of the solar panel the fitters may have disabled the charging function of the engine battery from the EHU mains charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Possibly Jon, possibly? Or something else completely different? My thought was that in order to know what is not working it often helps to know what is working? I hope he has a digital multimeter - something that I would never leave home without! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 My Italian McLouis does exactly what your's does. On EHU only leisure charges, when on engine, both charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Brambles - 2010-02-23 8:13 PM Am I right in thinking the suggestion here is in the fitting of the solar panel the fitters may have disabled the charging function of the engine battery from the EHU mains charger? Maybe Jon, but is there any evidence that the mains charger was charging the engine battery before fitment of the solar panel? Randonneur, do you know if the mains charger actually charged the engine battery before the solar panel was fitted? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 What woud be useful to know is the make and model number if known of the control panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 One mains input, one charger, two outputs. The core of the charger is a transformer (or the electronic equivalent thereof). Two charging regimes, one controlled to maintain the habitation battery close to full charge, the other to "maintain" the starter battery, with lower output. Habitation battery is charging: ergo mains works, mains fuse intact, charger works. Starter battery not charging, but apparently starts engine OK (so has, and can retain, sufficient charge for this activity), and is being satisfactorily charged by solar or alternator. Ergo, starter battery not main suspect?Therefore, wiring, fuse, or charger output, to starter battery seem culprits. I have no nowledge of the "innards" of the Laika charger, so do not know how the output to the starter battery is controlled (if at all), but would suggest physically checking all wiring, (pos + neg paths) and fuses, between the charger terminals and the starter battery terminals. Continuity checks may then be required, to establish whether the circuits are broken. Then, if the circuits are OK, the fault must, surely, lie within the charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Again, many thanks for the replies. Both batteries are 2 years old, we have the receipts from the previous owner. Before we had the solar panel fitted we can't remember ever having a problem with the charging of the engine battery. We have an alarm fitted, which is a pain, so every so often we put the van on EHU ready for a few days away. It is only recently that we have noticed that it is not charging the battery from the mains. We have an autoelectrician nearby so I think we will let him have a look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I think the next thing to do is check the charge voltage on the batteries when hooked up. It may not be rising enough. What you could do is disconnect one battery at a time and see if engine battery starts to charge. Won't need a volt meter for that test. Laika will send you pdf copies of the wiring diagram for your vehicle if you request them. It will help, it will also help the autoelectrician if you need him to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Randonneur - 2010-02-24 8:45 AM ...It is only recently that we have noticed that it is not charging the battery from the mains... I guess this means that your Laika's engine-battery is now going flat, despite you running the on-board charger, whereas previously it did not? My Hobby's on-board charger is said to give priority to the leisure-battery, with a low amperage charge being passed to the engine-battery. But I don't think there's any visual indication on the Hobby's control-panel that it actually does this, though the control-panel has the capability to show each battery's charge state. I've just assumed that engine-battery charging is occurring simply because that battery doesn't show any signs of flattening when my motorhome is standing idle for extended periods and being given the occasional few hours of EHU charging at home. As I can access the Hobby's engine-battery easily (but not the leisure-battery) I suppose I'd better multi-meter check that the system is working properly, rather than rely on assumption! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Brambles - 2010-02-24 10:20 AM I think the next thing to do is check the charge voltage on the batteries when hooked up. It may not be rising enough. What you could do is disconnect one battery at a time and see if engine battery starts to charge. Won't need a volt meter for that test. Laika will send you pdf copies of the wiring diagram for your vehicle if you request them. It will help, it will also help the autoelectrician if you need him to help. Thanks Brambles, we have the wiring diagrams in the back of our Laika manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 sorry for breaking in on this thread, but you have found yet another large hole in my knowledge! i always believed that on mains hook only the leisure battery was charged. it now seems quite common that some machines to also float the vehicle battery. does anyone know if this is true of my 04 adria coral? theres no mention of it in any of my paperwork (ive had it from new) and the batteries have never been a problem (but now seem to be in need of replacement). if my vehicle is on mains, and my vehicle battery is ok, would i get any noticeable indication of charging? how best to check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 KeithR - 2010-02-24 11:13 AM sorry for breaking in on this thread, but you have found yet another large hole in my knowledge! i always believed that on mains hook only the leisure battery was charged. it now seems quite common that some machines to also float the vehicle battery. does anyone know if this is true of my 04 adria coral? theres no mention of it in any of my paperwork (ive had it from new) and the batteries have never been a problem (but now seem to be in need of replacement). if my vehicle is on mains, and my vehicle battery is ok, would i get any noticeable indication of charging? how best to check? Easiest way to check is to measure the voltage on the engine battery after the van has been standing for a while then connect the mains if it is charging you will see an increase in voltage probably only be about ½ volt as it will only be a trickle charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSP Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I have owned a Laika 7.1 G 2002 Ducato pre cab face lift since 2002 with 400 miles on the clock when purchased. I can confirm that the mains charger on EHU will charge the auxillary battery but not the engine battery. Both batteries are charged when engine is running off EHU. I use a CTEK battery charger to ensure the engine battery is kept in a good state of charge when not in use as vehicle alarm draws enough to drain battery to 12v over approx 6 to 8 weeks. both battery levels are shown on the touch controll panel and if the link fuse by the engine battery is ok it will show engine battery voltage which will not increase when EHU is connected. I have queried this with Laika service Italy and they have confirmed that the the 230v supply will not charge the engine battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 KeithR - Certainly only the leisure batteries (and NOT the vehicle battery) on our venerable 1994 Aryal Autostar A-class (on a Peugeot J5 vehicle base) gets charged when on EHU. To counterbalance this, when I had an 85 watt roof mounted solar panel fitted about 6 months ago, I specified two regulators from it, so that it thus feeds both leisure and vehicle batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 RSP - 2010-02-24 8:02 PM I have owned a Laika 7.1 G 2002 Ducato pre cab face lift since 2002 with 400 miles on the clock when purchased. I can confirm that the mains charger on EHU will charge the auxillary battery but not the engine battery. Both batteries are charged when engine is running off EHU. I use a CTEK battery charger to ensure the engine battery is kept in a good state of charge when not in use as vehicle alarm draws enough to drain battery to 12v over approx 6 to 8 weeks. both battery levels are shown on the touch controll panel and if the link fuse by the engine battery is ok it will show engine battery voltage which will not increase when EHU is connected. I have queried this with Laika service Italy and they have confirmed that the the 230v supply will not charge the engine batteryMy 2007 Burstnr is also the same as yours and I do as you do and use a C.tek to keep the engine battery charged. I have it permanently attached to the rear of the drivers seat and plug it into a 13 Amp socket nearby. It's on EHU to my house , of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 thanks guys, i will get my brother to measure the battery (hes the brains) and if necessary i will take bfg's advice and finally put my hand in pocket and splash out on some sun power (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 thanks guys, i will get my brother to measure the battery (hes the brains) and if necessary i will take bfg's advice and finally put my hand in pocket and splash out on some sun power (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 i dont like repeating myself, honest :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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