Shortage of parking places.

[747]

I think that Tony Jones has made a very good point (or two) in his post.

 

Why do people want to spend several days, or weeks, parked up on a piece of waste ground or roadside while abroad. If they went off and spent the day enjoying themselves somewhere and then returned to a spot to overnight, a lot of the problems would disappear.

 

Some people seem determined to spend as little money as possible once they have bought their van. They flout basic hygiene by emptying grey and black water anywhere handy. I bet they do not do that when at home otherwise their property would be a cesspit. This happens regularly in the UK as well. It is often the big new vans with all of the accessories on the roof that are guilty and not just the older vans or self builds.

[Lord Raindrop]

I will never feel guilty regardless of what I have or what I earn. Every sole on this earth has the same opportunity to do and earn what he likes.

 

Those who keep grumbling about site costs want to try running one.

[GypsyTom]

I think that Brian Kirby may be right in that this guy is a wind-up merchant who starts controversial threads just to get a reaction.

People like this are quite clever in that they post something that could well be believable but is certain to cause controversy. They then sit back in revel in the fuss that they've caused.

I think that people such as this are really quite cruel but perhaps they were bullied or abused as a child and now feel that they have to treat others in the same way.

I'm with Dave Newell on this and feel that this man is best ignored.

I too am out!

[david lloyd]

I think that most of the contributions have been making good points - I say most because there are some that are quite odd.

 

For instance:

 

"Do you all really enjoy being on site, packed close together with other peoples noise, animals and children?"

 

Well no, but we use a mixture of aires (as they are intended to be used - for overnight stops rather than 'camping' for days at a time), stelplatze and sites. Unfortunately, some of the aires and stelplatze have been just like this quote says 'packed close together with other people's noise etc' Many are just glorified car parks and without roo to even open the habitation door without scraping the side of the next van!

 

On the other hand we have found some really nice, spacious and quite reasonable sites, particularly outside of the Jul/August period and have not found them crowded at all.

 

 

David

 

[Porky]

creakyknee - 2010-03-02 2:49 PM

 

1 At last someone with some comonsense.

2 my wife tells everyone we're not arguing we are having a heated discussion.

3 I think some of them must feel a bit guilty about the amount of money they have!

 

1 So anyone who disagrees with you has no common sense? What arrogance8-)

2 Obviously it is a habit!!!!*-)

3 Sour grapes?>:-(

 

Despite my better judgement I have risen to the bait, but I think I feel better for it . Hey ho.

 

 

[creakyknee]

Hi Tom, Nothing cruel about saying it as it is. I seem to remember I was called mean and greedy just because I want to do my own thing. I must have hit a raw nerve, sorry. :-(

[Tomo3090]

"They flout basic hygiene by emptying grey and black water anywhere handy." Now there's my own personal moan right there! What's wrong with emptying your grey water down a grid? It's only soapy water and doesn't do any environmental damage. I can understand the black water waste being emptied into a grid is a "no, no", but not grey waste. Doesn't anyone EVER wash their car or van on the drive and let the water just run away?

 

Last year when we "wild camped at Torrox for a couple of nights, (between sites), ourselves and othe vans were emptying the waste water & toilet cassettes into the main foul sewer adjacent to a toilet block. A British guy living in some nearby flats came over to have a word with me. He was complaining about the fact That the waste then went into the sea! I tried to show him it was a foul sewer and if it did go into the sea then that was the fault of the local authorities and not the people emptying their waste into it. He wouldn't have any of it, but when a Spanish guy also staying in his van told him it was nothing to do with him, it was his country he got angry and abusive, so I left the discussion at that point. But it really was a foul sewer and it wasn't our fault if it went into the sea.

[creakyknee]

Hi Stephen, Not usually too much trouble to find local sewage works, they are usually obliging and for a couple of euros will fill van with fresh water. Expect I could get away with one euro because I'm mean! Not good to tip black water where chemicals will get into sea, very often oyster beds nearby, ie some quayside toilets.

[creakyknee]

1 So anyone who disagrees with you has no common sense? What arrogance.

 

I didn't say that. So now I'm mean, greedy and arrogant, just because I want to park my van. Thanks.

[747]

Just a bit of information for tomo 3090.

 

Not every roadside grill goes to a water treatment works. They are there to facilitate the run off of surface water. Sometimes they go directly to rivers and streams, sometimes soak aways.

 

If you have been chucking your grey water down these then you are totally in the wrong. It is acceptable to throw it into the back of a hedge etc. and let the water be filtered out but never down a drain.

 

Of course you might have just thrown in a controversial point and you are now sitting back waiting for people (like me) to bite. :D

[Brian Kirby]

John, you are an angry man.  Many of us are also angry men, for a variety of different reasons, but with some common ground here and there.  You are losing places you used to favour as wild camping spots.  Mainly that is because more people find they can afford to follow your example, but also because growing wealth in the countries you favour, and their increased accessibility for visitors, means increasing demands on land.  You wild camped on bits that had little to no value.  Increased affluence has now given that land a higher value, it is no longer undeveloped, and you can no longer stay there.  It is just the story of urban development, to a large extent it is life.  Things change, which many rue, but others welcome.  You can't alter that.

Your finances have been strained by recent events.  Is anyone immune to that?  It certainly isn't your fault, but neither is it ours.  It is a feature of human stupidity that markets over stretch and then collapse.  The economic cycle.  It is sad it has hit you, and many, many, millions of others just now.  The impact is uneven, but how could it be otherwise?  Again, it is life.

Some are wealthier than you.  Amen to that!  So it is for all of us.  You imply that there is an injustice in the skilled man being unable to make as much in his working lifetime as some others have made, notably, it seems bankers.  So, when you were choosing careers, why did you not chose banking?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  We can all see where we should have gone in hindsight: only the lucky few look back and say "I made the best possible life decisions I could possibly have made".  Most of us end up with regrets about careers, partners, missed opportunities, bad judgements, things we said or did, or failed to say or do.  Once more, it is just life.

So, finally, welcome to life in all its messy, unpredictable, unfair, accident-prone glory.  We did not inflict your present predicament on you, any more than you are to blame for our predicaments.  However, for all its failings, it surely beats the alternative, do you not think?  Let's just get on with it, and stop beating up ourselves and everyone else because it didn't quite work out as we wished.  If it has turned out wrong that is ultimately because, just like the rest of us (mostly) mere mortals, you made bad decisions in the past.  We all live with the consequences of our past errors, it is futile to blame ourselves for that, they are in the past, and so, unalterable.  Go in peace!

[silverback]

ere ! ere!! Brian

thought of running for parliament!!! i'd vote for you

jonathan

[Guest Tracker]

Every day I wake up I say thank you for another day (to myself - not to any deity I might add) as I am so happy with my lot in life.

 

I have a nice home, several nice toys, a lovely wife who loves me (I think / hope), a lunatic border collie (who thinks I am the bees knees) and we are all warm, well fed and safe (well as safe as anyone else in this fair land).

 

Others have more - others have less - others have broadly the same - I could with hindsight have made more money - or less - over a working life - but so what - we are happy and content with our lot and that counts for a lot to me.

 

Why get angry or bitter - these are negative emotions that serve no useful purpose - better to get even by ploughing your own furrow, enjoying every minute and finding the places that the other 'voyagers' cannot reach.

 

Life's too short for bitching! If we can't park anywhere we just say 'sod you too' and go elsewhere to spend our cash - the open road always beckons!

[creakyknee]

Crikey Brian you've certainly gone to town on me, do you think I should book in and see a psychiatrist? I only wanted to park my van without being ripped off. When I said the site-owner by definition had enough money I was thinking he probably had 2 or 3 million, which I think is quite enough. If you want to be on the side of these bankers with their millions that's up to you. Just think Brian about this recession, the money didn't disappear into thin air, someone has it. Lord Ashcroft has his share and it's all legal according to the electoral commision.

 

Big business is keen to sell new motor-homes. Have you seen the adverts showing the motor-home on a deserted cliff top, at the back of a beach, on a mountain side. Dream on folks you'll get a ticket parking like that.

 

I really do feel sorry for people coming up to retirement. With a squeeze on their pensions and little interest on their savings the chances of them doing long trips every year will be slim for the majority. Where we used to pull up and have lunch there are now big signs 'No Motor Homes'

On the Med. motor-homes are a no no. The big marinas with their yachts and their forest of masts aren't an eyesore why should motor-homes be?

Oh I know! money.

 

I would have thought that motor-homers as a group could have brought some pressure to bear for councils to provide aires. Most of them have height barriers to stop MHs parking. Even staying more that 2 hours on a motorway services area will land you with an £8 bill. That's good value then, better to drive on and fall asleep.

 

Well that's my little rant for tonight, oh I do feel better, I don't think I'll bother with the psychiatrist.

 

 

 

(lol)

[Brian Kirby]

creakyknee - 2010-03-04 10:39 PM Crikey Brian you've certainly gone to town on me, do you think I should book in and see a psychiatrist? I only wanted to park my van without being ripped off. ..(lol)

You wrote, I reacted.  Is that not why you wrote?  With respect, I'd say you did not "only want to park your van without being ripped off".  That was in the past, it was what you had wanted at that time.

Now you write to us about it.  What you want now is to tell us, and complain that things had changed and there was now a charge.  What level of charge would you have been happy to accept, or would any charge have been a "rip off"?

From what you have written so far, you have created an impression of a person who sees fairness when it coincides with what he wants, and unfairness when it does not.  That inevitably leads to conflict, because what seems fair to you will, from time to time, impact on ordinary folk in ways they think unfair.  The restrictions you complain of reflect the annoyance of residents and other property owners.  The onus is on motorhomers to be discreet in where they park, and what they do.  Too many fail.  Therefore there are restrictions.  One has to accept that is an outcome of democracy.

[david lloyd]

creakyknee - 2010-03-04 10:39 PM

 

Crikey Brian you've certainly gone to town on me, do you think I should book in and see a psychiatrist? I only wanted to park my van without being ripped off. When I said the site-owner by definition had enough money I was thinking he probably had 2 or 3 million, which I think is quite enough. If you want to be on the side of these bankers with their millions that's up to you. Just think Brian about this recession, the money didn't disappear into thin air, someone has it. Lord Ashcroft has his share and it's all legal according to the electoral commision.

 

Big business is keen to sell new motor-homes. Have you seen the adverts showing the motor-home on a deserted cliff top, at the back of a beach, on a mountain side. Dream on folks you'll get a ticket parking like that.

 

I really do feel sorry for people coming up to retirement. With a squeeze on their pensions and little interest on their savings the chances of them doing long trips every year will be slim for the majority. Where we used to pull up and have lunch there are now big signs 'No Motor Homes'

On the Med. motor-homes are a no no. The big marinas with their yachts and their forest of masts aren't an eyesore why should motor-homes be?

Oh I know! money.

 

I would have thought that motor-homers as a group could have brought some pressure to bear for councils to provide aires. Most of them have height barriers to stop MHs parking. Even staying more that 2 hours on a motorway services area will land you with an £8 bill. That's good value then, better to drive on and fall asleep.

 

Well that's my little rant for tonight, oh I do feel better, I don't think I'll bother with the psychiatrist.

 

 

 

(lol)

 

Just two points to make:

 

1. You can't just assume that someone who happens to own a campsite has 2 0r 3 million pounds - the site may be worth a great deal but the owner may be struggling to make an honest living.

 

2. We would all like more aire type parking - even in this country. Well, I know that it can be done but only, as you say, if motorhomers are prepared to take that cause up and engage with local authorities to persuade them it would be a good thing to do. This comes down to personal responsibility rather than waiting for 'someone' to do it.

 

David

[Mickydripin]

Creakyknee.

 

I think I know where you are comming from even tho you have caused a bit of a stir you gave me a bit of a nock when you asked if I was a banker when I said that I had paid £240 for a site in Cornwall (if that was the word you were thinking about)

We are all a little mad at what they are getting up to most of all me and we are all mad that companies now dont want to earn millions they want to earn Billions for there share holders.

We are getting the same thing from the utility companies (gas,elictric, water, etc)and I think you are enraged that it seems to be happening all over the place and at times it encroches on our favorite pastime there are a lot of pensioners in the same boat me included but we know that when we buy a motorhome it is going to cost money I had a rant a while ago along your lines and Brian bought me down to earth with the saying that if you have a motorhome then you need to have a wedg in your back pocket should anything go wrong.

So it is nothing to do with how snobby or how big is your motorhome or how much it cost you it is all down to buying what you can afford and going out to enjoy yourself so that you have that wedg in your back pocket should any thing go wrong.

 

 

[creakyknee]

From what you have written so far, you have created an impression of aperson who sees fairness when it coincides with what he wants, andunfairness when it does not.  That inevitably leads to conflict,because what seems fair to you will, from time to time, impacton ordinary folk in ways they think unfair.  The restrictions youcomplain of reflect the annoyance of residents and other propertyowners.  The onus is on motorhomers to be discreet in where they park,and what they do.  Too many fail.  Therefore there are restrictions. One has to accept that is an outcome of democracy.

Good afternoon Brian, I wonder how far this unfairness will go before you react. When you go for a drive and find you cannot park because of restrictions on motor-homes. Already we cannot get on car parks because of height barriers. A lot of sea fronts and popular areas are out of bounds. Still there are more motor-home being sold with no where for them to park. We buy vehicles fitted out all self contained and then are charged on sites as if we are using all the facilities.

   No Brian I don't mind paying on aires, 3 or 4 euros is fair but 20 euros on a site is a rip off.

   Just because one or two people complain that they don't like the look of a few motor-homes we are banned (these are usually expats). I could complain that I don't like dogs(which I do). They crap all over the place and although some owners clean up there is still the odd accident. Do you think I should ring the Police everytime I see a dog in case it craps the same way that property owners ring the Police because they think a motor-homer will empty their toilet?

[creakyknee]

Hi Michael, Thanks for your input. I don't mind paying for services and work done. I object to paying a lot of money when I receive very little in return or when I am forced into paying. Broke down in France last year, told I must have a diagnostic check by insurance co. £700 and engine left in bits. Problem not found until van was repaired here, injector pump. Advice ,don't let them touch it, get it back home.

     The last time I went to a site with prices similar to what you paid. I told him I thought it was expensive. He said, "Yes but it's a very popular site" I said, " I see it is, you've got two vans on but you're not going to make it  three with mine." I think I wild camped that night.

 

      Yes, had the gas and electric bill this morning, so that's the ferry money gone(Winter heating allowance).

Sitting around a candle tonight, making shadows on the wall. It'll probably be better than what's on TV.

 

[creakyknee]

We would all like more aire type parking - even in this country. Well,I know that it can be done but only, as you say, if motorhomers are prepared to take that cause up and engage with local authorities to persuade them it would be a good thing to do. This comes down to personal responsibility rather than waiting for 'someone ' to do it.

 

 

So David, what have you done about it?

 

[Blue Pirates Wife]

Motorhoming Conundrum. With particular reference to the Algarve.

 

I would like to put a couple of points straight, and to put the cat among the pigeons! many of you seem to have missed something;

 

1) A “Motorcaravan” under EEC ruling is classed as a CAR! As a CAR a “motorcaravan” is entitled to park anywhere a CAR can park LEGALLY. What we do inside our motorcaravans is nothing to do with anyone else.

2) If a motorcaravan is legal in its home country, it is also legal in every other European country. A reciprocal agreement between EU member states. (this is why you should not cash your road fund licence in when bringing your motorhome touring in the EU)

3) We are NOT parasites. Apart from what is free to every other resident or tourist, we “take” nothing. We are tourists who bring our own accommodation with us. We also take our own accommodation away with us, leaving far less environmental impact than the 1,000s of monstrosities of apartment blocks and hotels that blot the landscape forever.

4) All motorcaravanners I know are very responsible people who dispose of their waste “responsibly” and as I mentioned before, often cleaning up the mess made by locals!

 

I suppose it is very easy to tarnish those targeted in some “hate” campaign, jumping on the bandwagon, without bothering to know or understand the facts. How many other minority groups would you herd into camps or fine for simply existing? …very dangerous ground!

 

So now knowing the facts, why shouldn't I be able to park my truck (I have an 814 Mercedes homebuild) legally where I want?

 

I think "creakyknee" is spot on. I too think €10 to €25 is robbery for a "parking space." why should I pay for a cold dirty swimming pool, or a kid's playground when i don't have kids, or some other poor facility I don't want. All I need is a tap and a toilet empty point.

 

As for those moaning about feecampers dropping grey water, what of those with "s**t machines" (dogs) who think nothing of letting them lift their leg up other's motorhomes, or let them s**t anywhere and not clear it up?

 

 

[rupert123]

Blue Pirate's Wife - 2010-03-05 3:56 PM

 

Motorhoming Conundrum. With particular reference to the Algarve.

 

I would like to put a couple of points straight, and to put the cat among the pigeons! many of you seem to have missed something;

 

1) A “Motorcaravan” under EEC ruling is classed as a CAR! As a CAR a “motorcaravan” is entitled to park anywhere a CAR can park LEGALLY. What we do inside our motorcaravans is nothing to do with anyone else.

2) If a motorcaravan is legal in its home country, it is also legal in every other European country. A reciprocal agreement between EU member states. (this is why you should not cash your road fund licence in when bringing your motorhome touring in the EU)

3) We are NOT parasites. Apart from what is free to every other resident or tourist, we “take” nothing. We are tourists who bring our own accommodation with us. We also take our own accommodation away with us, leaving far less environmental impact than the 1,000s of monstrosities of apartment blocks and hotels that blot the landscape forever.

4) All motorcaravanners I know are very responsible people who dispose of their waste “responsibly” and as I mentioned before, often cleaning up the mess made by locals!

 

I suppose it is very easy to tarnish those targeted in some “hate” campaign, jumping on the bandwagon, without bothering to know or understand the facts. How many other minority groups would you herd into camps or fine for simply existing? …very dangerous ground!

 

So now knowing the facts, why shouldn't I be able to park my truck (I have an 814 Mercedes homebuild) legally where I want?

 

I think "creakyknee" is spot on. I too think €10 to €25 is robbery for a "parking space." why should I pay for a cold dirty swimming pool, or a kid's playground when i don't have kids, or some other poor facility I don't want. All I need is a tap and a toilet empty point.

 

As for those moaning about feecampers dropping grey water, what of those with "s**t machines" (dogs) who think nothing of letting them lift their leg up other's motorhomes, or let them s**t anywhere and not clear it up?

 

 

Not sure where you got all this from but we have four vehicles. Three of them a motorhome, 4x4, and a small Ford are all classed as private/light goods, the forth as a motorcycle, the class 'car' in the UK does not exist. The class usually has nothing to do with the right to park, it is usually defined by length or sometimes height. Why would anyone cash their road fund licence in, have never heard of this one. Personally we have never paid 10-25 euro for a parking place. We have paid up to about 18 Euro's for a pitch with electricity, lovely clean swimming pool, toilet/shower facilities, securiety and a nice space with distance between us and our neighbours. Admitted campsites sometimes have facilities I do not use but it is our choice. I have also stayed on aires like those slums at Honfleur and paid 7 euro's with my next door neighbour parked about two feet away. Their are poor campsites but you do not have to stay, their are a lot more aires we would not stay on at any price. Your remarks, like creakybrains are well 'over the top'. All you require is a tap and waste dump point is it, as long as someone else pays for the installation I assume.

[747]

You sound like you want to lump all dog owners and their dogs into one category. Do you want to put that minority group into a camp.

 

Dangerous talk comes easy when you have a pet hatred (excuse the intended pun).

 

The first part of your post was quite good. The rant spoiled it though.

 

Give me your reg. no. and I will make sure my male dogs christen your vehicle. It will be a first for them. :D

[GypsyTom]

Here we go again! Has someone put a huge sign up somewhere saying:

Are you a tight, moaning, miserable and selfish old man? If so, 'Out and About Live' wants your input.

[Porky]

Blue Pirate's Wife - 2010-03-05 3:56 PM

 

I think "creakyknee" is spot on. I too think €10 to €25 is robbery for a "parking space." why should I pay for a cold dirty swimming pool, or a kid's playground when i don't have kids, or some other poor facility I don't want. All I need is a tap and a toilet empty point.

 

As for those moaning about feecampers dropping grey water, what of those with "s**t machines" (dogs) who think nothing of letting them lift their leg up other's motorhomes, or let them s**t anywhere and not clear it up?

 

 

Oh dear. Is this rant of the week? Are there more to come? Everyone has a free choice. No one is frogmarched into the campsite and told hand over your money or we let your tyres down. So why should you pay you ask. Well don't is the answer to that. Everywhere there are examples of one business charging more than another, or offering an inferior product. Most people will quietly go about spending money and make their own choices based on what they perceive as value for money.

I am trying to get our local authority (Exeter) to make facility for motorhomes. I even posted a thread on this forum asking for support. The response was poor. Some success has been achieved with Dawlish and Exeter are waiting to see how that goes. GJH has done more than most to improve things. What have you done?

 

Roy Fuller