Shortage of parking places.

[GJH]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 3:06 PM

We would all like more aire type parking - even in this country. Well,I know that it can be done but only, as you say, if motorhomers are prepared to take that cause up and engage with local authorities to persuade them it would be a good thing to do. This comes down to personal responsibility rather than waiting for 'someone ' to do it.

 

 

So David, what have you done about it?

David was the prime mover behind overnight stops for motorhomes being allowed in Guisborough - see Here. He worked tirelessly with council members and officers - which is why he is able to say that he knows it can be done.There are various reasons why height barriers are in place, some of them valid and some not so valid. It does absolutely not good at all, though to rant or whinge at local authorities because it is too easy for such approaches to be dismissed as simply not constructive. Positive approaches making the case for parking (day, overnight or both) can work and have worked as Roy says.Graham

[creakyknee]

Hello Tom, Thought you were out of this on page two, welcome back.

[Brian Kirby]

creakyknee - 2010-02-28 8:58 PM I have been reading posts and hearing from campers in Portugal and Morocco complaining of shortage of places to stay. They appear to have been harassed by the Police and fined heavily. We have been Wintering in Portugal for the past nine years with no problem, only staying where the locals approved. I'm afraid I will not be going again, not to live waiting for a 60euro knock on the door. I think this will have serious consequences for the motorhome manufacturers and dealers. I for one will not be buying another motorhome. It seems that campsite owners have become too greedy and have pressured politicians to ensure we are all corralled.

Just a reminder of where this started, and what it was about. 

Now, if all these motorhomers, from all over Europe, leave nothing but their tyre prints when they leave, keep their gatherings to a maximum of maybe three vans, keep a low profile, keep back from the shore line, and seek out stopping places where they are difficult to see, what could possibly provoke the restrictions?

Ah, but alas, they are not so neat and tidy as John believes.  The naughty ones have sneaked away when he wasn't looking, and chucked their black water into ditches, hedges and the sea, sometimes after dark.  Why after dark?  Good question, but it is a bit difficult to believe it is just because they forgot while it was light, so perhaps it was because they wished not to be seen.  Maybe just a little bit of guilt, then?

Then there are the ones who drive around with their grey water dump valves cracked open, leaving that little tell-tale stream of wet down the road behind them that non-motorhomers almost invariably believe to be toilet waste.  There are of course the blatant others, who dispose of toilet waste onto motorway services areas truck parks.  Hasn't any one else caught the odour of Elsan, or Thetford, on a nice warm day when stepping outside?

Then there is poor, benighted, Morocco.  Its winter beaches strewn with hundreds of freeloading motorhomers, and a huge and growing rubbish tip of plastic bottles, broken glass, discarded packaging, food waste and other detritus a few hundred yards further on.  When the vans left, the authorities had to clear up that little lot after them.  Not to mention all those "holes in the sand" for the toilet waste!  It was, of course, cheap while it lasted, and completely wrong of the Moroccan authorities to spoil the fun for so many Europeans, despite the health risks they created.

And then there are the accumulations of vans along French quaysides, that have driven other visitors away, because they stay day and night, and have hogged all the parking places and blocked the sea views from the restaurants.

And on, and on.  I'm sure John hasn't done any of these things, but the growing numbers of selfish clots who have, as is always the case, have overdone the liberty taking, and the local populations have turned, just like the proverbial worm.  Who is to blame?  The selfish clots of course.  But how to discriminate between the selfish clots and the considerate motorhomers?  Both drive large, usually white boxes.  They mix in with each other, sometimes for company, sometimes for camouflage, sometimes for security, and sometimes because they are just too lazy to find somewhere else.  Then, of course, the selfish, thoughtless, ones upset the locals, and up go the barriers.

Why should the locals tolerate the abuses?  It is far easier to just ban the lot - so they do.  It is a shame that many small liberties are being lost, but it seems the thoughtless selfish minority always has, and presumably always will, abuse privileges until they are withdrawn.  Why do supermarkets put up height barriers?  To keep out motorhomers? 

No.  To keep out travellers, who they find it very difficult to evict, who put off their usual customers, and who often leave a trail of abandoned rubbish in their wake when they go.  They too, think they should be allowed to stay where they like, without charge, because it is their traditional right, established when their caravans were horse-drawn the horses grazed the wayside verges.  They simply can't understand why anyone would want to exclude them, why people own land and have possessions and get angry when the land is occupied without authority and possessions go missing.  The problem is, in the eyes of the great European public, motorhomers resemble travellers in their vehicles, their expectations, and rather too often, their habits.

Are all these people bankers, or rich, or some other easy target hate group we can blame for all our ills?  Of course they aren't.  They are just ordinary, decent, home loving people, with a sense of community, a pride in where they live, and a desire to get on with their lives unmolested.  They are just like us, and some of them even own motorhomes.  It's just that some of us have behaved rather badly, and upset them, and they've had enough.

So I'm sorry for the curtailed freedoms, and lost innocence, of a golden age of motorhoming.  Argue it how you will, golden ages end, and the world always seems less colourful when they pass.  Remember when you were a kid?  All those things you could do then, that you can no longer do, because you grew up, because the innocence went, because you grew older, and became infinitely wiser?  Well, maybe motorhoming too is being forced to grow up, in just the same way.  Lost youth, eh?

Now, where shall we go next?  :-)

[Guest Tracker]

Fer crying out loud fellas - give it a break and let's talk about something sensible like Gordon's funding of the Iraq war!

[creakyknee]

Hello Rupert123, Blue Pirate's Wife was referring to a "Parking Place" on a site. Most sites in Spain are now £20 and more. Your experience of sites is obviously better than mine, Honfleur Aire is five star compared to some of the sites in Portugal. The whole point of my post is that we are being forced to use these sites.

     With regard to Road Fund Licenses these were supposed to fund the upkeep of roads in the UK. If your license is going to expire whilst you are away you have a problem. Some campers believe RFL is not required abroad and that their insurance is still valid, this is open to debate.

 

    Rupert, if you are reduced to name calling I believe you have lost the plot.

[creakyknee]

Hi Brian, Enjoyed your post of 5th March 7.49pm. I think you covered it all quite well. I must admit I am really surprised by the ill feeling, whipped up by this wild camping thing. If we are hated so much by other motorhome owners then it's understandable that the general public are anti. I wonder if their mothers were sold some faulty clothes pegs by a gypsy!

 

      Not much hope of a united front to persuade councils to provide parking. Perhaps we should enlist the help of our EU brethren, they seem to get things done by direct action. There again most folk here can't be a**ed.(bothered).

 

 

 

[rupert123]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 8:17 PMHello Rupert123, Blue Pirate's Wife was referring to a "Parking Place" on a site. Most sites in Spain are now £20 and more. Your experience of sites is obviously better than mine, Honfleur Aire is five star compared to some of the sites in Portugal. The whole point of my post is that we are being forced to use these sites.

     With regard to Road Fund Licenses these were supposed to fund the upkeep of roads in the UK. If your license is going to expire whilst you are away you have a problem. Some campers believe RFL is not required abroad and that their insurance is still valid, this is open to debate.

 

    Rupert, if you are reduced to name calling I believe you have lost the plot.

Name calling, who me, what did I say? I sort of gathered he was refering to sites and how would you know about sites you never use them. I have never ever paid £20 for a site, anywhere, even in August and I use them most of the time. However if you think Honfleur aire is good I am beginning to see the standard you require, fair enough, but not mine I am afraid. If you feel Portugal is no longer welcoming, well Europe is a big place go somewhere else.

[Mel B]

Could it be you referring to him as 'creakybrains' perchance? :-S

 

Road tax - it is my understanding that in order for your vehicle to remain 'road legal' you have to continue to keep it taxed, whatever European country you are travelling in, otherwise you could find it is a let-out clause for your insurance company or worse.

 

I can't blame Portugal and the like for clamping down on the so called motorhomers who are causing problems, ask yourself, if you had one of these massive 'motorhome parking places' a few hundred yards from where you live, would you be happy???? I certainly woudn't. What if a load of foreign motorhomes invaded your favourite British sea-side resort and made it impossible for you to go and spend a bit of time there - you certainly would not be very pleased.

 

I do, however, use official aires and on the odd, rare, occasion that I park overnight in an 'unofficial' place, I make sure it doesn't cause any problems for anyone else or me!

[colin]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 8:17 PM

  With regard to Road Fund Licenses these were supposed to fund the upkeep of roads in the UK. If your license is going to expire whilst you are away you have a problem. Some campers believe RFL is not required abroad and that their insurance is still valid, this is open to debate.

 

No "open to debate" about it, your vehicle has to conform to the regs in the country it's registered, in Greece a few years back they had a crackdown on this, some of the islands where 'littered' with UK registered cars with out of date RFL and no MOT's.

 

 

[creakyknee]

Oh Rupert, Please don't park your superior motor-home anywhere near those rough type. I know my place. I must get the family crest put on the van and a sign saying 'tradesmen use other door'. Could you please post a picture of your van I would hate to offend by parking in your vicinity.

I bet you empty your loo and other campers gather around to inhale the scented air! I hope I can rely on you not being at Honfleur next time I am there or anywhere else.

 

[creakyknee]

Hi Colin, Heard lots of tales about RFLs. Do you know of anyone who has been fined for no RFL whilst abroad. Not MOT or other offences, just no RFL.

[colin]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 10:26 PM

 

Hi Colin, Heard lots of tales about RFLs. Do you know of anyone who has been fined for no RFL whilst abroad. Not MOT or other offences, just no RFL.

Not personaly why should I, but I know it was reported that several hundred british car owners where prosecuted in Greece, IIRC about ten years ago.

With 'continious taxation' then any van returning to UK could face fines if anyone bothers to prosecute them.

[rupert123]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 10:11 PMOh Rupert, Please don't park your superior motor-home anywhere near those rough type. I know my place. I must get the family crest put on the van and a sign saying 'tradesmen use other door'. Could you please post a picture of your van I would hate to offend by parking in your vicinity.

I bet you empty your loo and other campers gather around to inhale the scented air! I hope I can rely on you not being at Honfleur next time I am there or anywhere else.

Think you can rely on my not being anywhere you seem to like to camp, glad to hear you know your place.

[Bazza454]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 8:17 PM  The whole point of my post is that we are being forced to use these sites.

Who is forcing you to use these sites? Surely you are capable of deciding whether you use a "recognised, authorised" site or aire, or decide to overnight on a bit of spare land, in a car park, in front of someones property, or in a lay by.

Whether you like it or not, the fact is that for every motorhome traveller that leaves absolutely no trace of staying in a particular spot, there are a number of others that leave a trail of destruction that either the local council or local residents have to clean up, and for that reason, despite all the good work of Graham and David in the UK and probably many others throughout Europe, the number of "unauthorised" overnight stops will decrease.

 

[Brian Kirby]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 8:58 PM Hi Brian, Enjoyed your post of 5th March 7.49pm. I think you covered it all quite well. I must admit I am really surprised by the ill feeling, whipped up by this wild camping thing. If we are hated so much by other motorhome owners then it's understandable that the general public are anti. I wonder if their mothers were sold some faulty clothes pegs by a gypsy!

      Not much hope of a united front to persuade councils to provide parking. Perhaps we should enlist the help of our EU brethren, they seem to get things done by direct action. There again most folk here can't be a**ed.(bothered).

The debate, for some reason, always goes a bit poisonous.  Someone who prefers to use sites invariably accuses those who don't of being freeloaders, or one of the anti-site fraternity does the opposite, and starts calling those who prefer sites rich snobs, or bankers, or similar.  Why the one set needs the other to confirm their choice of stopping place mystifies me.  Live and let live?

I think, in fact, there is far more support for overnight stopovers in UK than you may imagine.  Trouble is, many of those who might have registered their support also use sites, and your quips about their choice of resting place, and the implied associations with the idle wealthy, just may have caused them to keep their powder dry.  You don't often gain allies by first attacking them!  :-D

[creakyknee]

Think you can rely on my not being anywhere you seem to like to camp, glad to hear you know your place.

[/Quote]

 

Hi Rupert, Not so sure about that. YOU WERE at the aire at Honfleur, which you hated. Why weren't you on the campsite? There is also a newish hotel near the aire which I can recommend. As they keep saying on here, nobody is forcing you to stay on a particular site. A bit tight perhaps? Or are you fur coat and no knickers? Not seen Lord Ashcroft with a motorhome yet, I might think there are some posh folk camping when I do.

 

 

[creakyknee]

Mel B - 2010-03-05 9:22 PMCould it be you referring to him as 'creakybrains' perchance? :-S Road tax - it is my understanding that in order for your vehicle to remain 'road legal' you have to continue to keep it taxed, whatever European country you are travelling in, otherwise you could find it is a let-out clause for your insurance company or worse.I can't blame Portugal and the like for clamping down on the so called motorhomers who are causing problems, ask yourself, if you had one of these massive 'motorhome parking places' a few hundred yards from where you live, would you be happy???? I certainly woudn't. What if a load of foreign motorhomes invaded your favourite British sea-side resort and made it impossible for you to go and spend a bit of time there - you certainly would not be very pleased. I do, however, use official aires and on the odd, rare, occasion that I park overnight in an 'unofficial' place, I make sure it doesn't cause any problems for anyone else or me!

 

 

Hello Mel B, Have you checked with your insurance company regarding RFL? It doesn't affect the road-worthiness of the vehicle.

 

     Are you xenophobic? Why would you be worrying about foreigners camping in their vehicles a few hundred yards from you? You are more likely to get murdered by some nutter from here.(nutter meaning - yob, waster, early released con, or the other sort). Anyway I don't think you need worry on that score, I mean the foreigners not the nutters. Most of the foreigners I have spoken to have either been and found out how expensive and inconvenient it is or heard the same.

 

     As regards sitting on a beach, the last time we went on the East coast there wasn't a square foot without litter. Ashamed to be British, yes I am.

 

[Porky]

creakyknee - 2010-03-05 8:58 PM    Not much hope of a united front to persuade councils to provide parking. Perhaps we should enlist the help of our EU brethren, they seem to get things done by direct action. There again most folk here can't be a**ed.(bothered).

 

 

Ok so please tell us what have YOU done. So far you have moaned, been rude, and seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder.Please don't come back with more abuse just tell us when and how you have approached local authorities (which ones) and how they have reacted. We wait with interest*-)

[Lord Raindrop]

I don't await with any interest. Why bother to make any comment in his direction, he's just a stupid old fart with nowt else to do except wind everyone up over his stories.

 

 

[Mickydripin]

Mel I think you have got that one wrong on road tax my son worked for a Dutch company as a continental lorry driver and the only time that he had to get road tax was when he was in holland they buy it from service stations on arrival in holland and they only brought it from day to day, when he was in the UK there was no Tax on his lorry

Maybe we should do the same charge all continental trucks when they come over hear

[creakyknee]

Ok so please tell us what have YOU done. So far you have moaned, been rude, and seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder.

Please don't come back with more abuse just tell us when and how youhave approached local authorities (which ones) and how they havereacted.

We wait with interesthttp://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Hi Roy, With regard to aires here I have not done much at all. I had no need. We have a CL which is as cheap as an aire. I did contact Amber Valley Council about parking  a motorhome and was told if they were contacted they would make arrangements. That is they would remove a height barrier or allow them to park on an area restricted to particular residents. This is not ideal because no one works at the council at weekends or out of hours. Having seen the animosity on this site I don't think anyone would take the job on of championing the provision of aires.

 

If Lord Raindrop is looking I have checked on any constructive input from him and  found ---- zilch. I  therefore suggest his title be changed to -  Chief Drip.

 

[Porky]

creakyknee - 2010-03-06 12:05 PM Having seen the animosity on this site I don't think anyone would take the job on of championing the provision of aires

But this is the whole point, it is not for "someone" to champion the cause, it is for each and every one of us to keep, and I mean KEEP pestering our own local authority to improve the provision for parking motorhomes. Initially this might just be parking not the full aire facility which the local authority would have to cost and evaluate the financial benefit of. This will not come about without a carefully submitted and costed proposal. If you do a search on this forum for aires for england you might get the picture*-)

[robertandjean]

Hi All,

Have followed this thread and in end could not resist replying! Most regular readers will know where we are coming from but here goes. Agree with Creakyknee that many sites are a rip off, particularly in the U.K., and best avioded. Do not agree that it is O.K. to park where we like as bound to get local populations backs-up in most countries. Solution as far as we are concerned is to stay on official stopover places in a country where motor homes are still welcome, that is the aires in France. And yes before some of you jump in with your size 10 boots, we know there are some indications of feelings turning against motorhomes in La Belle France but this is not the majority view. Feelings towards motorhomes in France are best illustrated by an incident that happened to us on a small village aire last year. A small child, with his Grandma pointed to our van seeing the British reg. Grandma came over to us and said a friendly bonjour; she then showed the child the aire point clearly describing how it worked before returning to her house which we were parked directly infront of. So a friendly acceptance and passing this on to the next generations. (In UK would maybe have told us to move on sharpish).

Regarding Honfleur then not worlds best aire, but hardly a slum, and as Rupert knows there are many great aires in France just waiting for him to visit. Aires in U.K.? Forget any large scale development, people are much too anti-motorhome and too many vested interests in sites . No, head to France and enjoy; we will be there soon thank goodness.

[creakyknee]

Well I think this subject has run its course for now. I'd like to thank those that have given me support and also those who have given a balanced view, Brian in particular. Even those against wild camping have provided information and we now see that they are not likely to come on the side of wild campers. Most have let slip that they do free camp on occasions. So what, we are all free to do what we want. I think the problem with these posts are that a lot of opinions are expressed where there is no real evidence. Whatever your opinion of me, I don't care. My conscience is clear. Please remember when you pull alongside, you may have a problem, it could be a fire, a heart attack, you may need help, perhaps during the night. I might need the same. I just hope we can rely on each other. Thank you all for your input.

 

[Mickydripin]

Robertand jean

I know that creekyknee has said that he wants to close this post now but I feel that I must point out that I do not think that people are against motorhomes so much in this country the problem all along has been about gipsys (or travellers as they now call them) parking and leaving all there rubbish that is why they put all the barriers up on suppermarkets and about every peice of spare land in our area at one time we were plagued with them and from what I read in the papers the south of the country was the same.

I for one would love to see motorhomers parked respectively around our area as long as they clean up after them