Tyre Pressures Autotrail Apache

[bromleyxphil]

Hi I have an 09 Apache 634u but can't find the correct tyre pressure in the literature. It has Continental VancoCamper 215 70 R15 Tyres which say 69psi on the side. I don't know if this is a max or optimum pressure but they have 75 + 80 in at the moment F + R this must have been set at the dealers when I bought it. Hope someone has or can direct me to the answer.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

[Keithl]

Hi Phil,

 

I know others will be along later saying take it to a weighbridge and then contact Continental but as a start try downloading the Motorhome tyre leaflet from TyreSafe and then look up your tyre size (make sure you use the page for Camper tyres) and estimate your axle weights. This will at least give you a guide as to what range of pressure you should be running at.

 

Hope this helps,

Keith.

[silverback]

hi, the 69psi on the sidewall if it says max next to the numbers, thats the max pressure the tyre should be

jonathan

[Wills Wagon]

On all the AutoTrails I have owned the correct tyre pressure is on a sticker on the passenger side door jamb near the locking point.

[bromleyxphil]

Thanks Wills mine has one but shows a panel van and says 79.5 psi all lettering in Italian.....I wonder if I got the one they forgot to replace.

 

Phil

[Brian Kirby]

Have you tried asking either Autotrail or the dealer who sold you the van?  Are tyre pressures not given in either the Fiat, or Autotrail, handbooks?  Our previous van was Ducato based, and both the Fiat and converter's handbooks gave tyre pressures for camping tyres (in that case Michelin).

[Derek Uzzell]

My 2007 Auto-Trail brochure provides the following details for an Apache 634U:

 

Length - 6.98m

Width - 2.26m

Height - 2.84m/Lo-Line or 3.05m/Hi-line

Chassis - Fiat Ducato 35 Light

Wheelbase - 3800mm

MAM - 3500kg

Max axle loading (front) - 1850kg

Max axle loading (rear) - 2000kg

Unladen Mass - 3045kg

 

Based on those data, it will be evident that a 634U is a quite substantial/heavy motorhome on a relatively light chassis and with a reasonable amount of rear overhang.

 

Continental's website says the following about the VancoCamper range of tyres:

 

"The VancoCamper is the ideal partner for your motorhome. It meets the demands of camping vehicle manufacturers, as well as campers and caravaners themselves. It complies to the special "CP" (Camping Pneu) tyre standard. Its base van construction gives you excellent mileage potential, whilst the use of extra reinforcement enables up to 5 bar of pressure ensuring optimum vehicle stability even under heavy rear payloads. Whether on or off-road, the VancoCamper gives you peace of mind with a smooth safe drive."

 

5-bar is around 73psi and the suggestion seems to be that this pressure should be considered maximum. (There is an exception to this 'rule' in the VancoCamper range, but it's not the tyre size used on Phil's Auto-Trail.)

 

The VancoCamper 215/70 R15 tyre is 8-ply rated with a Load Index of 109, which equates to a single-tyre maximum loading of 1030kg (maximum axle loading of 2060kg). I haven't got pressure-to-load data for this tyre but, based on Michelin's handbook figures for similar size/load-index tyres, I would estimate 60psi(front axle) and 65psi(rear axle) inflation pressures would be 'about right' for a 634U, just using Auto-Trail's weight details for that model.

 

As has already been advised, if the tyre's marking indicates a maximum pressure of 69psi, then it isn't designed to be inflated beyond that figure even though it may be technically capable of handling the extra pressure.

 

It will always be the case that, to obtain optimum tyre pressures, the motorhome will need to be weighed in FULLY-LADEN state to establish its actual axle-loadings. Once those loadings have been obtained, then the tyre manufacturer can be contacted for advice on what pressures to employ.

[Brian Kirby]

From Derek's post above, this would also seem to be a van with a minimal payload, especially for it's size.  Add to that the large rear overhang, and the minimal rear axle load limit, and it would seem to me a van that is highly vulnerable to overloading its rear axle and the rear tyres.

I have looked at the generic TyreSafe load/pressure chart published by the British Tyre Manufacturer's Association (BTMA), which gives data for 215/70R15 CP tyres, load index 109.  To match the axle maxima of 1,850Kg front and 2,000Kg rear, the pressures from this chart would be 60psi/4.2bar front, and 69psi/4.75bar rear.

Continental is a member of the BTMA, and has previously advised me that they accept the published TyreSafe load/pressure data as relevant to their tyres.  However, in view of the following, I think it would be wise to double check with them in respect of (especially) the rear tyre pressures on your van.

The implication of the TyreSafe chart is that the front tyre pressure of 60psi is optimal for this tyre size/type (for a load of up to 1854Kg), while the rear pressure/load is at the top end of what is deemed permissible for a single, non-driving, wheel (the chart maximum for this tyre is 2,060Kg at 69psi/4.75bar).  Those rear tyres are going to be working very hard, and have no published upward margin.

Load your van with great care, and make sure those tyres are kept correctly inflated!

[Ris]

If your vehicle has an Alko chassis, then check the tyre pressures shown in the seperate Alko booklet that you should have been given.

[Derek Uzzell]

Ris - 2010-03-05 4:42 PM

 

If your vehicle has an Alko chassis, then check the tyre pressures shown in the seperate Alko booklet that you should have been given.

 

Just for the record, no Fiat X250-based Auto-Trail Apache model has an Al-Ko chassis.

[bromleyxphil]

Wow thanks for all of the help and info guys.

 

I am new to motorcaravaning and it seems I have a lot to learn. We bought the van because we liked it (still do) and to be honest didn't look too much into the technical stuff. The Autotrail handbook doesn't give any tyre pressures and my dealer says "60 to 70 psi and see how it handles". When we go away next time I will get the axles weighed (does anyone know a weighbridge near to Bolton) then use the tables suggested. Thanks again

Phil

 

Ps I think my tyres may have been over inflated for some time, how much damage can this do?

[Randonneur]

Raikes Lane Council Tip off St Peters Way used to have one. Give them a ring. Its a few years since ive been there.

[malcy]

Hi Phil. I see you are in B/X me too. As regards your tyres & pressures, good luck. As you probably realise by now it,s a bottomless pit of info & misinfo. Your dealer obviously hadn,t a clue which really doesn,t surprise me, you can read all the technical stuff you want inflate your tyres to whatever recommendation you,ve recieved & if( & it,s only an if) the worst does happen, your tyre will end up back at the manufacturer eventually who will in my experience claim that it was "over inflated, under inflated, kerb damage or whatever, either way you,ll be extremely lucky to get reimbursed.

 

I had years in the haulage business & for what it,s worth here,s how I went about it. On the tractor units - steer tyres new michelins,drive axles new michelins, trailers cheap new,(almost but not quite any brand). The important bit here is not the brand as that varied from vehicle to vehicle eg, Volvos got better mileage with mich,s Merc,s where better with continentals & so on ,but the fact that they were new, so what I,m saying is any of the recognisable big brands new tyres will be more than able to meet your demands.

 

An over inflated tyre will show more wear in the centre of the tread than than on the edges & I too have been to the council weighbridge at Raikes Lane, even catching them on a good day & getting a freebie.

 

I know that this doesn,t fully answer your question about your pressures but if you want to P.M. me I can maybe take a look at them.

 

Either way it,s up to you. Good luck with your M/home,I hope you get as much pleasure out of it as we have over the years.

 

malcy.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

bromleyxphil - 2010-03-07 8:51 AM

 

...Ps I think my tyres may have been over inflated for some time, how much damage can this do?

 

Inflating your motorhome's VancoCamper tyres to 80psi should have caused them no harm.

 

Genuine camping-car tyres (normally marked "CP" nowadays) are designed to tolerate the high inflation pressures needed to cope with heavily loaded vehicles and will necessarily have a large built-in safety margin as far as 'over inflation' is concerned.

 

(In fact, if your tyres had been Michelin "Agilis Camping", rather than Continental's equivalent pattern, and you had consulted Michelin for advice, you would almost certainly have been advised to use 80psi for your motorhome's rear tyres.)

 

There's a list (possibly not fully up-to-date) of weigh-bridges on:

 

http://www.chrishodgetrucks.co.uk/pageweighbridge/weighbridgeshome.htm

 

Once you've obtained axle-loadings for your Apache, I strongly suggest you contact Continental via e-mail and ask them to advise on what pressures to employ.

 

As you currently have no documented tyre-pressure recommendations for your Auto-Trail, it would be sensible to obtain advice from Continental that you can print off and retain, together with the weigh-bridge read-outs, as proof (should you ever need it) that the pressures you will be using have been 'officially' provided by the tyre manufacturer, not just based on educated guesswork.

[Phill Fougere]

Hi folks, I operate A Dethleffs Globebus I3 on the Fiat X250 chassis. I also have the Continental Vanco Camper tyres 215/70 R15 CP. My normal operating weight is Front Axle 1600kg, Rear Axle 1650kg. I contacted Continental for advice on Tyre pressures. They replied Stating Rear Axle 62PSI, Front Axle 51PSI at the quoted normal operating weight. I queried the 51PSI for the front Axle. This is their reply:

 

Although there is only 50 kgs difference between the two axles of your

camper van, we recomend higher pressures on rear axles to allow for greater

weight transferences on the rear end of this type of vehicle when

cornering. Most camper van layouts inevitably result in a higher centre of

gravity than would be the case with the average goods van, and as most

campers have a single rear wheels, a noticeably higher pressure is

required.

 

If you wish to contact Continental. This email works: Trevor.Blake@conti.de

 

:-)

[RogP]

Hi Phil

 

not sure if this is any help.

 

I've got a 2007 Apache 700SE. Just had a read through my handbooks and the following is stated.

 

Firstly the Autotrail Handbook states to inflate tyres as stated in the chassis manufacturers handbook and to always inflate to a fully laden condition.

 

The Fiat handbook for 215/70 R15 seems to state 4.1bar Front and 4.5bar rear for fully laden. However this doesn't differentiate for Camping Tyres as the matrix for larger tyres does.

 

Whilst it may be help this is for a 2007 model year van so I'd certainly do as others recommend and check with both Fiat and the tyre manufacturer.

 

As for the dealers comments I'd take that with a pinch of salt , in 25 years of buying Cars , motorbikes , motorhome etc etc I've never once had one vehicle where the tyres were inflated correctly , my first port of call is always the nearest garage to check!!

[Derek Uzzell]

Phill Fougere - 2010-03-09 9:42 PM

 

Hi folks, I operate A Dethleffs Globebus I3 on the Fiat X250 chassis. I also have the Continental Vanco Camper tyres 215/70 R15 CP. My normal operating weight is Front Axle 1600kg, Rear Axle 1650kg. I contacted Continental for advice on Tyre pressures. They replied Stating Rear Axle 62PSI, Front Axle 51PSI at the quoted normal operating weight. I queried the 51PSI for the front Axle. This is their reply:

 

Although there is only 50 kgs difference between the two axles of your

camper van, we recomend higher pressures on rear axles to allow for greater

weight transferences on the rear end of this type of vehicle when

cornering. Most camper van layouts inevitably result in a higher centre of

gravity than would be the case with the average goods van, and as most

campers have a single rear wheels, a noticeably higher pressure is

required.

 

If you wish to contact Continental. This email works: Trevor.Blake@conti.de

 

:-)

 

It's perhaps worth adding that Michelin has quite often recommended a 10% increase in front-axle tyre pressures based on 'static' axle-loadings. This is to help deal with weight transfer when the motorhome corners/brakes.

 

Just for the record, when I asked Continental about the ambient temperature to which tyre inflation-pressure recommendations applied, I was told:

 

"As for the 'Cold' tyre pressure, the benchmark within Europe is 20ºC, however please take this with a 'pinch of salt' and use whatever the ambient temperature at the time is."

 

I very much doubt that motorcaravanners take ambient temperature into account when inflating their motorhome's tyres. Nevertheless, if you inflated the tyres to, say, 65psi, on a below-freezing morning in the UK and then drove to, say, a balmy Morocco and re-checked the pressures, they'd be well into the 70psi range.

 

All this proves is that motorhome tyre pressures shouldn't be considered an exact science. Assuming that you've got tyres that are suitable for your vehicle and that are in good condition, there are only two absolutely vital things to consider - that you don't overload the tyres beyond their design limits and that you don't under-inflate the tyres for the load being placed on them.