Is 75 to old to drive?

[GypsyTom]

I find it quite amazing that so many people say "Age has nothing to do with it and my great grandfather was still driving when he was 119'.

There will always be exceptions but of course age has something to do with it!

Do you seriously think that if you tested 100 drivers aged fifty and then tested another 100 aged 90, that the results would be the same?

Of course they wouldn't! But that's not to say that people shouldn't be allowed to drive if they are 90, as long as they are competent and can prove it.

I hope that none of you ever meets some confused codger coming towards you on the wrong side of the motorway at a combined speed of 140mph!

[jhorsf]

I think computers should be removed from old people :D

[davenewellhome]

nowtelse2do - 2010-03-07 9:35 PM

GypsyTom - 2010-03-07 8:28 PM

No age doesn't come into it but individual ability does. I see drivers daily that shouldn't be let loose with a teat trolley let alone a car or motorhome, D.

OK, where can I get one of those trolleys? I want one!

 GT.

It's in his garage, with a Cosworth in it.

When are we going to get a up date on it Dave, havn't seen one for a while.

Dave

Hi Dave, semiregular updates can be found on the website I set up for it:www.cossie.davenewell.co.ukD.

[chas]

I would hazard a guess that if a compulsary driving test was brought in at say 75, then you would see far less senior citizens on the road. I have never understood also, why one can take a driving test in say a Devonshire town, and presumed that you can then drive in a crowded large city in the U.K. Test centres should be in busy congested citys as near as possible to an applicants home as is possible.

[naittaw]

If the criteria is the number of accidents caused within an age group perhaps we should insist on annual tests for 20 year olds !

[Colin Leake]

So may be after September I should stop driving our motorhome all over the length and breadth of the UK even if that means my wife and I will have to give up fell walking. And may be I should stop cutting our 18ft high hedges from ladders using a powerful engine powered hedge trimmer and may be I should refrain from going on to the roof of our house to fix loose tiles. Mind you I must admit the latter backfired on me when the wife came home from shopping earlier than expected and caught me up there. "You silly old" were three of the four words she used and the fourth had six letters.

 

So I'm against it then. Well no actually I've been diabetic for the last 25 or so years and as a result can only drive up to 3,500 kg and have to have my licence renewed and a form filled in by my doctor every three years and quite right to. I have no desire to kill myself, my wife or anyone else so when as he will inevitably will one day my doctor says no I will have to accept his decision with good grace. Mind you I've got plans for what to do after that happens.

 

What does not make sense to me is that it should be age related. There are plenty of younger drivers who have either problems or potential problems out there. I have no idea how hold you are and I wish you well but have you had a check up lately? For all you know you could pass out at the wheel tomorrow so why make it age related?

[GypsyTom]

Two weeks ago in Accrington, Lancashire, a driver had a heart attack, mounted the pavement and killed a baby in a pushchair. There are so many recorded accidents of people doing similar things, losing control through illness, becoming confused and driving the wrong way up a motorway.

And what's the common denominator in all these things.They were all old people!

You freely admit that you have problems that preclude you driving normally and that you have to be restricted. What has caused these problems? Are you a youngish man or are you, as I suspect, getting on and possibly in your seventies?

Of course age should be considered when talking about testing drivers' abilities - it's so self evident that it beggars belief that people can say "Age shouldn't come into it."

Whether you regularly test everybody is a completely separate argument and I would actually be in favour of that but, until that happens, it's time that we made people over 75 prove that they are competent to drive. 

If you have all your faculties and are confident of your ability then what have you to fear from a simple test?

Finally, yes I can pass out at the wheel tomorrow, but every year that passes makes that eventuality more likely. There are far fewer incidents of younger people suffering heart attacks and strokes whilst driving. Not surprising really, as heart attacks and strokes tend to occur when you get a lot older. And please, don't start telling me about someone who had a heart attack at 40, we know it can happen but it happens a lot more at 80!

[davenewellhome]

GT, I think you are missing the point a wee bit. The question posed in the title of this thread is "Is 75 too old to drive?" and most of the contributors to this thread have said similar things, i.e. age is not the only criteria, a driver's ability should be judged individually and not solely based on age. I don't dispute there are probably more old drivers who pose a risk through age related problems failing eyesight for example but there are plenty of younger drivers who have health issues meaning they pose a higher risk as a driver.

 

All we're trying to say is age shouldn't be the ONLY criteria taken into account over anyone's abilities as a driver.

 

D.

[teflon2]

In 2years time I will have to have a medical in order to retain my right to drive my doctor will make sure that I am medicaly able to drive. Will this happen to a 30year old who drives with their mobile phone fixed in their ear? I dont think so. I see daily drivers of all ages who should not drive as they do but would they drive this way on a test? Yes the elderly are more prone to ailments and some should not be driving but please do not tar us all with the same brush. Tragedy struck on the A 11 yesterday when a white van man crashed into the back of a caravan and its tow vehicle which had broken down on the verge of the dual carriageway, the wreckage was strewn for a long distance along the road and the road had to be closed for 10 hours to clear the wreckage you couldn't see that it was a caravan so by you criteria should all drivers of white vans be tested anually. Our thoughs localy go to the victims at this time who are in Addenbrooks and the West Suffolk hospitals. These people were entertainers and brought much pleasure to many people. John. (!)

[GypsyTom]

davenewell@home - 2010-03-08 7:40 PMGT, I think you are missing the point a wee bit. The question posed in the title of this thread is "Is 75 too old to drive?" and most of the contributors to this thread have said similar things, i.e. age is not the only criteria, a driver's ability should be judged individually and not solely based on age. I don't dispute there are probably more old drivers who pose a risk through age related problems failing eyesight for example but there are plenty of younger drivers who have health issues meaning they pose a higher risk as a driver.All we're trying to say is age shouldn't be the ONLY criteria taken into account over anyone's abilities as a driver.D.

No I'm not missing the point! This thread is about people over 75 driving and I'm arguing for old people having to prove their fitness.

Where have I ever said that age is the only thing that should be taken into account?

And people have not said that age is the only criteria, they have stated quite clearly that it should not be a factor!

What I have said is that older people (over 75) should be tested regularly to ascertain their fitness to drive as there is ample evidence that, as they grow older they are more likely to have an accident or suffer confusion or illness at the wheel.

This thread is not about whether young people should also be tested regularly. This is a red herring that you and others keep introducing. I have no problem with younger people, or all people, being tested more often but that's not the debate.

The debate is, 'Is 75 too old to drive?' - I think that I've made it clear that my view is that 95 isn't too old to drive, as long as that 95-year-old has, by an annual or biennial test, proved his fitness to do so.

Can I be any clearer?

EDITED TO SAY:

I've found this and a lot more evidence on the web.

Many retired people look forward to the freedom of not having nine-to-five jobs. They can spend their time travelling and enjoying sights they had always wanted to see but couldn't before, whether at home, or abroad on vacation. Statistics worldwide indicate that persons of retirement age while not involved in most accidents are involved in more on a per-mile-travelled basis. Nine drivers over seventy are reported killed per one hundred miles driven, and are involved in three times more accidents than drivers aged forty-five to sixty.

Warning Signs

Below are some signs that could indicate that age is affecting your driving:

• Being in increasing numbers of accidents and near misses
• Decreased mobility or less coordination of hand and feet movements
• Stopping when there is no need, especially where it dangerous, such as at a green light or in the middle of moving traffic
• Becoming fearful of driving
• Decreased vision, hearing or concentration

Drivers over seventy are involved in THREE TIMES more accidents than drivers aged 45-60. Of course drivers aged 18-24 are also involved in far more accidents but that is not the subject of this thread. How can anyone argue that older drivers should not be subject to more rigorous testing than they have at present?

[creakyknee]

GT. I suspect that a lot of drivers have not had their blood pressure or blood tested in the past 12 months. Many of us that have are then penalized by insurance companies. Even though we are on medication to control blood pressure. others are driving around with high blood pressure ignorant of the fact. If older drivers are to be subject to tests isn't that an ageism rather than a safety issue?

By the way,I had my first heart attack at 48 fortunately I was on my push bike at the time.

 

[teflon2]

The original post asks is 75 too old to drive a motorhome I think the overwhelming response is NO (!) John

[davenewellhome]

Sorry GT but you are just too vociferous in making the same arguments as the rest of us and then you go and put words in my mouth.

 

Its a Dragon's Den moment again for me, I'm out!

 

D.

[GypsyTom]

davenewell@home - 2010-03-08 8:31 PMSorry GT but you are just too vociferous in making the same arguments as the rest of us and then you go and put words in my mouth.Its a Dragon's Den moment again for me, I'm out!D.

Please tell me where I put words into your mouth. In your first two posts on this thread you clearly and unequivocally stated that age should not be a factor in deciding who is fit to drive. 

This is what you said:

Why does age even come into the discussion? My father is 80 and drives a brand new Kia hatchback.

No age doesn't come into it but individual ability does.

Before you go please answer just one question. Do you believe that people should be allowed to carry on driving regardless of their age and that they should not be subjected to some form of tests when they reach a certain age, be that 75, 80 or even 85?

If you believe that they shouldn't be tested then you are ignoring all the evidence, some of which I've shown in my previous post, that older drivers have three times more accidents that those between 45 and 60.

If you do agree that some form of test should be applied later in life then age quite clearly does come into it!

I await your response with interest and cannot accept that my 'vociferous' argument has driven you away. Perhaps you've realised the weakness of those earlier comments?

[Mel B]

So does that mean if you're over 75 and your Fiat judders in reverse it IS your driving skill that is lacking? Whereas if someone who is only 50 has a Fiat that judders in reverse it is the vehicle that has the problem and not the driver?

 

I can see Fiat grinning from ear to ear at that one! :-S

[GypsyTom]

teflon2 - 2010-03-08 8:24 PMThe original post asks is 75 too old to drive a motorhome I think the overwhelming response is NO (!) John

Mmmm, not quite! We all agree, especially me, that 75, or even 85 is not too old to drive a motorhome. What many of us obviously feel though is that no driver, of any vehicle, should be allowed to carry on driving into very old age without some form of testing.

Anyone who would let people simply carry on without any form of checks is totally ignoring the evidence and is putting lives at risk.

[GypsyTom]

Mel B - 2010-03-08 9:18 PMSo does that mean if you're over 75 and your Fiat judders in reverse it IS your driving skill that is lacking? Whereas if someone who is only 50 has a Fiat that judders in reverse it is the vehicle that has the problem and not the driver?I can see Fiat grinning from ear to ear at that one! :-S

Sorry, but you've got me there! I've no idea what you're getting at.

Are you also saying that drivers' skills are never impaired as they age? I would remind you of the statistic that three times more drivers over 70 are killed in accidents than drivers aged 45-60! I wonder why that is?

[Mel B]

What's the phrase ... "Lies, dammed lies and statistics" ... or summut like that! It would be interesting to know of the number of older drivers killed in accidents, how many of those were involving younger drivers too and who was the actual cause of the accident.

 

Not saying you're wrong GT but I would imagine it is also more likely that older drivers would be more likely to die due to their injuries as they are less able to survive them, unlike a younger person.

 

I know from personal experience that some older drivers should NOT be on the road. Only the other day when we were out on our scooters and rode into shopping outlet car park an old chap started reversing out of a parking bay just a little way in front of me. I managed to stop but despite me and my husband blaring both our scooter horns, he kept going and I had to actually push my scooter backwards to stop him reversing into me. When he did eventually stop his reversing manouvre, I rode to the side of him and asked him if he had seen or heard us ... he had not!!!! I don't think he even looked in his rear view mirror at all and he must have been deaf to boot.

 

There was also the time when the old dear parked her car with the front pushing 6 inches into the bumper of our Rapido motorhome! She didn't even know she had done it and we had to get her to step out of the car to show her before she agreed to move her vehicle. The frightening thing was that she had her very young grandchild with her!

 

But then again, I've seen how some younger people and middle aged peple drive too ..... and some of them definitely should not have been on the road either!

 

[creakyknee]

 

Are you also saying that drivers' skills are never impaired as they age? I would remind you of the statistic that three times more drivers over 70 are killed in accidents than drivers aged 45-60! I wonder why that is?

 

 

 

GT Probably because they were cut up by these young whipper snappers! Most of the old codgers can't use a mobile and drive at the same time,lots don't even have a mobile. Regarding driving MHs, shouldn't think we can resolve this without knowing how many fatalities there have been with MHs driven by elderly drivers.

 

[GypsyTom]

This debate is getting silly! That's two people who've suggested that the reason that old people have more accidents may be because it's young people cutting them up!

Does this mean that young drivers only cut up old folk and never middle-aged ones? 

I wish that people would either read my post above showing the statistics taken from government tables or that they'd simply do a bit of research themselves.

Old people's faculties dim, their judgement becomes impaired, their eyesight fails and many of them fail to realise that the time has come to stop driving. It will happen to you, it will happen to me and unless legislation changes to make sure that they are tested regularly lives will be lost needlessly.

And yes, I know that young people can be worse but we're talking about old people in this thread!

I hope to be driving my motorhome when I'm 85 but I am quite happy to accept that I should be tested every year or two to prove my competence. I am not so vain as to think that I'm a perfect driver and that I will continue to be so in my eighties and nineties.

[jhorsf]

creakyknee - 2010-03-07 1:13 PM

 

Have read about 75 year old lorry diver who killed a couple in a road accident. Do you think 75  is too old to drive a motorhome?

 

 

 

YES

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

During my employment at the Medical Branch of a well known establishment, we were constantly reminded that "age is not an illness".

 

Interestingly, due to the Millenium Bug, drivers aged over 100 were regarded by the computer as being too young to have a licence.

 

My feelings on the matter are that young drivers rely on quick reactions to get them out of tricky situations, while older drivers avoid getting into such situations in the first place.

 

My insurance last year was £114. This year its £215. Was this because I have passed the magic 70, or is it because I told them my car has a bigger engine ..... with a turbo, and has bigger tyres.

 

Personally, I would be quite happy to take another driving test .... I frequently watch myself driving, and ask myself whether I would pass/fail myself. Er .... I don't watch myself literally, you understand.

 

Question. How many of you bounce your front wheel on and off the kerb when parking between two cars? Or do you still reverse into gaps like you did for your driving test? :-D

 

602

[rupert123]

Interesting debate this but probably a pointless one. GypsyTom's statistics quote does not mean much as he said it is worldwide so cannot be applied direct to the UK. The UK insurers do apply age as one guide but not age alone, it depends a lot on your past record. If you have a full no claims then the cheapest age for insurance in the UK is 60-65. It starts to go up at 70, but not by much, and it is interesting that at 80 it is still cheaper than at 30. I would point out again this is an average with a full no claims, so it would seem the insurance industry, probably the best guide, do not agree that age alone will cause accidents. Sure our reaction time increases with age but so does experience. Their is no proof that UK drivers of over 75 have more accidents and impractical for all to retake a test. I would point out that if you do have an accident, at any age, the court can make you retake a test anyway. So a big no, unless medical or accidents prove otherwise 75 is not to old to drive, but this applies at any age.

[GypsyTom]

rupert123 - 2010-03-09 10:01 AMInteresting debate this but probably a pointless one. GypsyTom's statistics quote does not mean much as he said it is worldwide so cannot be applied direct to the UK. The UK insurers do apply age as one guide but not age alone, it depends a lot on your past record. If you have a full no claims then the cheapest age for insurance in the UK is 60-65. It starts to go up at 70, but not by much, and it is interesting that at 80 it is still cheaper than at 30. I would point out again this is an average with a full no claims, so it would seem the insurance industry, probably the best guide, do not agree that age alone will cause accidents. Sure our reaction time increases with age but so does experience. Their is no proof that UK drivers of over 75 have more accidents and impractical for all to retake a test. I would point out that if you do have an accident, at any age, the court can make you retake a test anyway. So a big no, unless medical or accidents prove otherwise 75 is not to old to drive, but this applies at any age.

I'm just staggered that you can say that there is no proof that drivers over 75 are involved in more accidents. Have you taken the trouble to do the slightest bit of research?

I hope that you will accept that driving in the USA is similar to in this country. If anything it's easier as they have more traffic lights and no roundabouts.

Here's a link which gives statistics from government figures;

http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/older-drivers-elderly-driving-seniors-at-the-wheel.html

Highlights are:

Research on age-related driving concerns has shown that at around the age of 65 drivers face an increased risk of being involved in a vehicle crash. After the age of 75, the risk of driver fatality increases sharply, because older drivers are more vulnerable to both crash-related injury and death. Three behavioral factors in particular may contribute to these statistics: poor judgement in making left-hand turns; drifting within the traffic lane; and decreased ability to change behavior in response to an unexpected or rapidly changing situation.

In a 1997 NHTSA study, older people made up 9 percent of the population but accounted for 14 percent of all traffic fatalities and 17 percent of all pedestrian fatalities. NHTSA's "Traffic Safety Facts 1997: Older Population" (DOT HS 808 769)

 Moreover, 28 percent of crash-involved older drivers were turning left when they were struck-- 7 times more often than younger drivers were struck while making left turns.

Remember, this relates to the US so in this country it would be when they are turning right and often misjudge the oncoming traffic.

I find it worrying that people can blithely assume that as we get quite old that our driving skills do not become impaired. It's no wonder that old people go out and have horrific accidents if they cannot work out something as simple as this.

[Basil]

I believe that what comes across very clearly is that along with the lines nowdays of 'proving current competence' in the professional sense there maybe is a need to re-test ALL drivers say every three years, that might focus a few minds!

Bit like a vehicle MOT maybe with degrees of competence.

 

Bas

 

P.S. Incidently my brother in law held a class 1 HGV license but had to give it up after having three accidents that turned out to be caused by sleep apnea, he was 45 at the time.