Is 75 to old to drive?

[GypsyTom]

teflon2 - 2010-03-09 7:56 PMGT age concern are a limited company and not a charity they therefore have a vested interest in selling the appropriate insurance. As to the U.S.A. they drive on the wrong side of the road anyway and their youngsters seem to get a driving licence with their cornflakes so where is the similarity. As to the proof you claim is available if any of it comes from the department of transport just remember they were forced to apologise for giving the minister for transport false information about the number of motor cycle accidents which he had given in parliament. :-S John

With respect this is typical of the sort of comments that have dominated this thread.

Age Concern is a registered charity - look it up. It sells insurance to older drivers who find it difficult to get insurance because of their age - look it up.

In America they drive on the wrong side of the road! I give in!

You're all correct - as people get older they do not lose any abilities. Chaps of 95 are just as good a driver as chaps of fifty. Old people do not have any more accidents than young people. In fact 90-year-old drivers are the finest in the world and never have any accidents, never accidentally mount the pavement or go the wrong way up a a motorway.

Are you happy now?

[Guest Tracker]

I have read your response Gypsy Tom and in order to bring it to a closure I have referred the matter to the Moderator for his opinion.

 

If he feels that I am at fault no doubt he will tell me and I will accept his experienced judgement with good grace as I know him to be a fair minded man with the interests of the forum and all of it's members at heart.

 

I therefore have no more to say to you on this matter.

[GypsyTom]

Tracker - 2010-03-09 8:09 PMI have read your response Gypsy Tom and in order to bring it to a closure I have referred the matter to the Moderator for his opinion.If he feels that I am at fault no doubt he will tell me and I will accept his experienced judgement with good grace as I know him to be a fair minded man with the interests of the forum and all of it's members at heart.I therefore have no more to say to you on this matter.

Bully for you! I'm still waiting for you to tell me when I said that only people over 75 cause accidents, which is the comment that started this off.

[bob b]

Tracker - 2010-03-09 6:04 PM You have had your say and I have had mine and in due defference to all other forum users I think that we should let it rest there. The readers will be the judges of who is aggressive and confrontational and I would be most interested to hear the unbiased views of others? Let me add that I will not be having a go at them for expressing their opinions - so come on folks - tell us what you think!

Well, I don't consider Gypsy Tom "aggressive or confrontational" in his posts. He just states his views in a clear and concise way, albeit robustly!, and I often agree with him. It seems to me that, on this particular thread, there doesn't appear to be that much difference between the contributers views.

[teflon2]

GT, my brother in law works for age concern and I would hope that he would know if he worked for a charity. As to the U.S.A. comment it was my attemt to lighten the tone of this thread. John ;-)

[GypsyTom]

teflon2 - 2010-03-09 8:24 PMGT, my brother in law works for age concern and I would hope that he would know if he worked for a charity. As to the U.S.A. comment it was my attemt to lighten the tone of this thread. John ;-)

Then your brother is ignorant of the details of his employer. Age Concern is a registered charity. Its number with the Charity Commission is 1128267. 

I apologise for not realising that your 'wrong side of the road' remark was intended to be humorous but I've been wound up by a certain person - again!

[GypsyTom]

bob b - 2010-03-09 8:22 PM

Tracker - 2010-03-09 6:04 PM You have had your say and I have had mine and in due defference to all other forum users I think that we should let it rest there. The readers will be the judges of who is aggressive and confrontational and I would be most interested to hear the unbiased views of others? Let me add that I will not be having a go at them for expressing their opinions - so come on folks - tell us what you think!

Well, I don't consider Gypsy Tom "aggressive or confrontational" in his posts. He just states his views in a clear and concise way, albeit robustly!, and I often agree with him. It seems to me that, on this particular thread, there doesn't appear to be that much difference between the contributers views.

Thank you for that and I'm grateful. This is a tactic that Tracker uses many times. He says things that are blatantly untrue or wrong. When challenged he never admits that he may be wrong but diverts the thread into accusations similar to those above. I have asked him three times to justify what is a blatantly wrong and unfair statement that he accused me of making. As soon as I challenged him on this off he went on one of his usual diversions.

If there is a real bully on this site it's not me!

[jhorsf]

teflon2 - 2010-03-09 8:24 PM

 

GT, my brother in law works for age concern and I would hope that he would know if he worked for a charity. As to the U.S.A. comment it was my attemt to lighten the tone of this thread. John ;-)

 

 

 

your brother in law it would seem does not know who he works for see here

 

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/

 

 

 

 

 

Age Concern

the UK's largest charity working with and for older people

Just because you do not agree with someone I dont think there is any need for a personal attack on them I do not always agree with GT but think some people have gone to far this time you know who you are I think you owe GT an apology for being so nasty. Well you did ask!

[teflon2]

GypsyTom. I must apologise you are correct Age Concern is a charity and my brother in law is now my brother outlaw. :-S John

[rupert123]

GypsyTom - 2010-03-09 5:31 PM

Again your research is flawed the USA has no bearing on this. I should explain I have a motor traders insurance so have access to the motor insurers database where I can register any car bought or sold. On here I can get the figures for risk of various groups. I never at any point suggested as we get older driving skills will not suffer, I did in fact make the point that reaction times will be affected. Suggest you read posts properly before shouting. I am only answering the original question, is 75 to old to drive. I repeat, no of course not, but like drivers OFF ALL AGES this is subject to health and more important your past driving record.

Why has the USA no bearing on this? Are our older drivers somehow genetically different from American drivers? This is a worldwide phenomena, the older you get the more impaired your faculties become.

And as for telling me to read your post I would remind you of what you wrote, which was:

Their is no proof that UK drivers of over 75 have more accidents and impractical for all to retake a test. 

There is mountains of proof, it's everywhere! And why is it impractical for people to have to be tested every two or three years? Please explain to me why this cannot be done. We employ more testers, it's as simple as that! The one thing that government is good at is employing more civil servants.

Finally, this is what you said in your first post:

What does not make sense to me is that it should be age related.

You appear to totally rule out that older people are more likely to have an accident and yet you yourself admit to having your driving restricted by what are generally age-related health problems! I'm afraid that you've completely lost me!

Like others I am going to pull out of this because you now appear to be making things up. Where do I say I have some sort of driving restriction due to health, news to me. I am not saying older people are less likely to have accidents the British insurance industry is. Before you say it I do not mean the increasing age you keep quoteing, up to 95 now, you have the figures for average insurance quotes I gave and their source, if you chose to dis-believe them fine but they are from today not some survey taken in the last century from the USA. Employ more testers, sure, I believe Brian Kirby gave a pretty good summing up of this one. Two things out of interest people from differant countries do in fact age in a faster or slower way to us, again on average, they also drive in a differant manner. In the USA they do in fact drive on the wrong side of the road, if you mean less people drive on the right than the left worldwide. Nothing really to do with this but thought I would put it in anyway.

[GypsyTom]

teflon2 - 2010-03-09 8:53 PMGypsyTom. I must apologise you are correct Age Concern is a charity and my brother in law is now my brother outlaw. :-S John

No problem, you obviously accepted what your brother told you at face value, which is not unreasonable.

[The Decorator]

Gypsy Tom,

 

I’ve read with great interest your comments over several days and my thoughts on your ranting are that you are simply a bully, aimed towards anyone whom you feel like attacking.

 

You purport to be a pillar of society in aiding those most unfortunate, one wonders if your aim is simply to gain brownie points in your locality.

 

True you make some good points but it does not come over as interesting, why are you so aggressive, as a bystander this comes across as a great weakness.

 

No doubt my comments will be construed as not exactly Motorhome friendly, however I for one would prefer you to be a little more subdued in your comments to others for I see it as counter productive to this forum which is a very constructive forum.

 

I openly publish my comments with the forum members in mind as the situation is degenerating to a point were the site may be closed and everyone is a loser.

 

Best wishes

 

Jon

 

 

 

[GypsyTom]

rupert123 - 2010-03-09 9:03 PM

GypsyTom - 2010-03-09 5:31 PM

Again your research is flawed the USA has no bearing on this. I should explain I have a motor traders insurance so have access to the motor insurers database where I can register any car bought or sold. On here I can get the figures for risk of various groups. I never at any point suggested as we get older driving skills will not suffer, I did in fact make the point that reaction times will be affected. Suggest you read posts properly before shouting. I am only answering the original question, is 75 to old to drive. I repeat, no of course not, but like drivers OFF ALL AGES this is subject to health and more important your past driving record.

Why has the USA no bearing on this? Are our older drivers somehow genetically different from American drivers? This is a worldwide phenomena, the older you get the more impaired your faculties become.

And as for telling me to read your post I would remind you of what you wrote, which was:

Their is no proof that UK drivers of over 75 have more accidents and impractical for all to retake a test. 

There is mountains of proof, it's everywhere! And why is it impractical for people to have to be tested every two or three years? Please explain to me why this cannot be done. We employ more testers, it's as simple as that! The one thing that government is good at is employing more civil servants.

Finally, this is what you said in your first post:

What does not make sense to me is that it should be age related.

You appear to totally rule out that older people are more likely to have an accident and yet you yourself admit to having your driving restricted by what are generally age-related health problems! I'm afraid that you've completely lost me!

Like others I am going to pull out of this because you now appear to be making things up. Where do I say I have some sort of driving restriction due to health, news to me. I am not saying older people are less likely to have accidents the British insurance industry is. Before you say it I do not mean the increasing age you keep quoteing, up to 95 now, you have the figures for average insurance quotes I gave and their source, if you chose to dis-believe them fine but they are from today not some survey taken in the last century from the USA. Employ more testers, sure, I believe Brian Kirby gave a pretty good summing up of this one. Two things out of interest people from differant countries do in fact age in a faster or slower way to us, again on average, they also drive in a differant manner. In the USA they do in fact drive on the wrong side of the road, if you mean less people drive on the right than the left worldwide. Nothing really to do with this but thought I would put it in anyway.

I would never make anything up I can assure you. I apologise unreservedly for saying that you have health problems that restrict your driving. This wasn't an invention but an error. It was Colin Leake who told us that bad health meant that he now had certain restrictions on his driving and in the number of posts going back and forth I confused the two of you. (Please see Colin's post earlier and you'll see what I mean.)

As for the evidence that older drivers have a far higher accident rate pro-rata to their numbers we'll have to agree to disagree about that I'm afraid!

[GypsyTom]

The Decorator - 2010-03-09 9:19 PMGypsy Tom,I’ve read with great interest your comments over several days and my thoughts on your ranting are that you are simply a bully, aimed towards anyone whom you feel like attacking.You purport to be a pillar of society in aiding those most unfortunate, one wonders if your aim is simply to gain brownie points in your locality.True you make some good points but it does not come over as interesting, why are you so aggressive, as a bystander this comes across as a great weakness.No doubt my comments will be construed as not exactly Motorhome friendly, however I for one would prefer you to be a little more subdued in your comments to others for I see it as counter productive to this forum which is a very constructive forum.I openly publish my comments with the forum members in mind as the situation is degenerating to a point were the site may be closed and everyone is a loser.Best wishesJon

I smell a rat here. You've been on this forum for two days but you seem to think that our robust little discussion will result in the forum being closed. Mmm, very odd!

It's funny how people think differently but what I'd like you to do is to go through this entire thread and point out to me where any of my arguments or comments fall under the definition of bullying.

Debating vigorously, putting your viewpoint and challenging others is not bullying, it's one of the things that a forum is for. What is real bullying is in fact posts like yours which accuse me of being a bully, which is a dreadful thing to say to someone, especially when there is no evidence whatsoever.

Please start at the beginning and read every post that I've made and tell me the 'bullying' ones.

Edited to say: You're not a Lord someone by any chance are you? It's just that your comments about me supporting charity, which is all I can think that you mean by me purporting to be a 'pillar of society' appeared well before you joined. No one in my locality by the way is aware of any charity that I support, it is all done anonymously and your comments regarding that are unjustified and rather bullying!

[GypsyTom]

A couple of interesting links in case anyone still has doubts!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article582391.ece

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ipm/2008/09/some_statistics_on_elderly_dri.shtml

I've made sure that these are from this country, from respectable organisations and this century!

And this is from the website of a large insurance company.

Senior car insurance for drivers aged over 80

Statistics show that drivers aged over 70 are 13% more likely to make a claim on their car insurance than drivers aged in their 40s or 50s. Because of this, motor insurance companies will consider you a higher risk and your premiums will increase. Drivers aged over 80 are considered a very high risk and you may find that some motor insurance companies will not be able to offer you a quote. Now could be the time to start contacting car insurance companies who specialise in car insurance for seniors as their policies may include extra benefits specifically for elderly drivers.

[jhorsf]

some motorhome insurance companies have an upper age limit I wonder why?

[W3526602]

Hi.

 

"Driver's in their 40s and 50s" covers a twenty year span. "Drivers over 70", can realistically cover a 30 year span. OK, the maths is more complicated than that, but statistics should should be based on more than such a broad statement. Similarly with "driver's under 25".

 

I agree that USA statistics should not be used against UK drivers. Why not? Because the USA is a huge country, where driving to visit your grand children can take several days. Also, pass your driving test in USA, come to UK, and try to exchange your licence for a UK licence. I believe a UK licence is assepted ANYWHERE.

 

I believe France demands drivers take a medical at age 85, but nothing happens at age 75.

 

To paraphrase, "If you have to ask if you are too old ..... you probably are"

:-D

 

602

[Colin Leake]

If Gipsy Tom and Tracker ever finish up pitching next to each other bags I get a pitch next to them. Should be even more fun than watching them have a go at each other on this Forum!

[Guest Tracker]

Colin Leake - 2010-03-10 9:03 AM

 

If Gipsy Tom and Tracker ever finish up pitching next to each other bags I get a pitch next to them. Should be even more fun than watching them have a go at each other on this Forum!

 

Sorry to disappoint Colin but we are probably both quite reasonable and sensible people in real life and would either get on quite well or totally ignore each other - either way I have an open mind and no malice or ill feeling!

[Colin Leake]

I'm off to the gym. You see I've just read in the Daily Telegraph that if you keep fit you should expect to be able to enjoy an active sex life well beyond 80. So if I can't drive I'll keep myself amused as a gigolo. If there are any ladies reading this who are interested please bear in mind that you may have to pick me up in your car and it will be helpful if the boot is large enough for my Zimmer Frame.

[Colin Leake]

Tracker - 2010-03-10 11:40 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2010-03-10 9:03 AM

 

If Gipsy Tom and Tracker ever finish up pitching next to each other bags I get a pitch next to them. Should be even more fun than watching them have a go at each other on this Forum!

 

Sorry to disappoint Colin but we are probably both quite reasonable and sensible people in real life and would either get on quite well or totally ignore each other - either way I have an open mind and no malice or ill feeling!

.

 

And you catch phrase is wrong as well. The truth is there is only one right way and that's my wife's and if you want to argue with her your a better man than me.

[Rayjsj]

If all the Bad tempered 'Ranting' is over ? I think that, yes, 75 CAN be too old to drive, Especially Driving for a living. But driving for leisure, If your Health and eyesight are ok, why not ? The Bad examples reported are terrible but they are not 'the norm'. Nearly all of the car accidents locally are young (mainly Men 17-30) taking stupid risks with excess speed and 'Running out of road' on bends. Thats why it hardly even makes the news anymore, if an 'Old Git' does somthing 'stupid' it does make the news. (probably because older people are meant to have better judgment). Ray

[J9withdogs]

Another slant on this argument -

 

LINK

[Patricia]

One or two thoughts: in France you do not lose your "rights" to drive over 3.5 tonnes but a farmer can no longer drive a tractor on the road after he has retired. I believe both these statements to be true but I have seen lots of very old retired farmers driving tractors, especially at harvest time! I think drivers who have a UK licence can just exchange it for a French one but American drivers have to take another test.

 

I am fairly certain that I read some years ago that a EEC directive was in the pipeline that throughout the EEC all drivers would have to retake a test after a certain number of years (was it 10?) and that people over 70 (?) would have to take a test every 5 years. Can anyone else remember this or is it another "senior moment"?

[Tomo3090]

Anyone over 75 will have forgotten what the thread is about now anyway if they tried to read through all four pages! :-D