Fiat motorhomes

[jhorsf]

Brian its a pity you did not read all his posts or maybe you did i read it many moons ago when first posted As you are incapable of understanding my reasons for dismissing the only post I personally have ever seen of this kind I will tell you

 

1 the guy does not know what systems are fitted to his van or how they work

 

2 he does not even know what is fitted standard and what he has ordered

 

3 he says the van juddered he says he wheelspun at 2000 rpm everywhere

 

4 a form of traction control is fitted to stop this

 

5 ask anyone who OWNS OR DRIVES but him and they will tell you different

 

6 he says he at times had no drive to set off? this happens when people think they can just plug into the electronics their own obd fault reader and reset egr fault lights etc he tells you he does this every time a fault light comes on!

 

7 when you have faults or do stupid things to prevent damage the van will shut down or go into limp mode

 

8 why would you fiddle with electronic systems on a brand new van he obviously thinks this is better than using the warranty to reset fault lights etc this is the main reason I think his problems were self inflicted

 

 

9 he says all was well sometimes maybe this was when he did not continually think he knew better than Fiat about the electronics in his van

 

 

maybe I am entirely wrong and he did have a genuine problem?

if so is he the only one it has been stated by a another they know different but then its gone very quiet on the proof front and now I have you asking me what is a fact when you must know it is the truth

 

 

–noun

1.

something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2.

something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3.

a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4.

something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5.

Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.Compare question of fact, question of law.

—Idioms

6.

after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.

7.

before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.

8.

in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

 

 

 

 

[Mike88]

Without going over old ground the Morrocan judder experience seemed to have been due to wheelspin on loose ground and had nothing to do with the gearbox. There were other "eccentric" issues as has been pointed out. On my front wheel 140 bhp Astra the vehicle shudders mercilessly when the front wheels spin on any terrain so on loose ground the experience would I imagine be ten times worse.

 

Its probably best for the sake of sanity to await hard evidence of Comfortmatic problems before condemning the gearbox out of hand. The evidence to date has been positive but that is not to say problems will not arise later on. My fingers are firmly crossed! The problem is that Fiat's reputation for owning up to problems is so bad we - or at least most of us -are suspicious of anything branded with the Fiat label.

[Colin Leake]

jhorsf - 2010-03-16 11:58 AM

 

well MelB still waiting for one or the other!

 

jodi

you call it a minor point I would say peoples jobs at risk through lies is not a minor point

 

 

all I asked for were the facts proof but it seems to be in short supply the fact is Fiat do not have problems with the comfortmatic gearbox and MelB you are incorrect to say so

 

I'm sorry but they do. We have a Rapido and were comparing notes on our van with another Rapido owner. He was delighted with his van but upset that the clutch failed early on. Turned out he had a 3l with comfortmatic. At first Fiat blamed driver error until he told them it was the auto. To be fair to Fiat the clutch was replaced under warranty quite quickly but he told me he still could occasionally smell the clutch and was concerned about how long the new one would last.

 

I know this may be an isolated instance but it does show that there is a problem.

 

Since you are so definite about it I would be very interested to know where you got such positive information from. On the Fiat stand at a show perhaps if so we've all been there

[Colin Leake]

Mike88 - 2010-03-17 9:11 AM

 

Without going over old ground the Morrocan judder experience seemed to have been due to wheelspin on loose ground and had nothing to do with the gearbox. There were other "eccentric" issues as has been pointed out. On my front wheel 140 bhp Astra the vehicle shudders mercilessly when the front wheels spin on any terrain so on loose ground the experience would I imagine be ten times worse.

 

Its probably best for the sake of sanity to await hard evidence of Comfortmatic problems before condemning the gearbox out of hand. The evidence to date has been positive but that is not to say problems will not arise later on. My fingers are firmly crossed! The problem is that Fiat's reputation for owning up to problems is so bad we - or at least most of us -are suspicious of anything branded with the Fiat label.

 

It has only happened to us once but I do agree front wheel drive vehicles can judder in reverse when the lose traction. We had it once with our 5 speed Fiat Rapido on trying to back up a steep slope on wet grass. Fortunately the circumstances were such than I could have a second go and give it some welly and still stop clear of the tree behind me. Had the wife worried though.

[jhorsf]

there is a guy works down the chip shop swears hes Elvis

[Colin Leake]

jhorsf - 2010-03-17 4:39 PM

 

there is a guy works down the chip shop swears hes Elvis

 

Great so having accused others of not providing proof you are not prepared to do so yourself and tell us where you got your information that Fiat definitely do not have a problem! For my part I would rather rely on the first hand information I was given by an owner. Incidentally we were comparing our Rapidos and it was he who brought up the clutch problem not me.

 

Seems when someone comes up with the first hand information you asked for all you can do is hide behind a factious comment about Elvis rather than providing the information I asked you for.

 

How about telling us, or may be you can't!

[Brian Kirby]

jhorsf - 2010-03-17 2:02 AM Brian its a pity you did not read all his posts or maybe you did i read it many moons ago when first posted As you are incapable of understanding my reasons for dismissing the only post I personally have ever seen of this kind..........

You assume I am incapable of understanding what you can understand.  On what do you based that assumption?  Does in not strike you as gratuitously rude to so portray a stranger?  I don't think I have impugned your intelligence, have I?  So why do so to me?  To provoke?  By why? To stir up yet another spat?  Why would you want to do that, I wonder?  Pleasure?  Do say.

when you must know it is the truth –noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. 2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact. 3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth. 4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable. 5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.Compare question of fact, question of law. —Idioms 6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact. 7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact. 8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

A perfect definition, so far as I am concerned.  So, where are your facts?  In the final analysis, all you have is what a total stranger has written.  It may all be true, it may not.  It is not verified: however, it is a first hand account.  It is confused, and confusing, and you have illustrated its shortcomings as a story.

My point was, however, that you have dismissed the story out of hand, on no better basis than your own reactions to it.  I don't say you are necessarily wrong: but what I am saying is that you have no better basis for stating, as a matter of fact, that his story is wrong, than anyone else has for quoting it as correct.  It is, simply, an unverified story. 

It seems odd to me that having bought an apparently expensive van, and taken it to Morocco, anyone would take the trouble to "diss" it if it had run perfectly, just as it strikes you as odd he should have resorted to fiddling with its electronics.  But then neither you, nor I, were actually there, driving that van, were we? 

So, why fiddle with the electronics if it was working properly?  Is that not an equally valid question, though it is not, of course, based on any facts.  :-)

[Mel B]

Hi guys

 

Sorry for not getting back with more info, I have been out of action to a great extent these last few days, due to private matters/illness/neighbour's funeral etc, so only able to pop on occasionally for the odd posting.

 

Jhorsf - I apologies for saying you were someone else - despite your writing styles being extremely similar and your new avatar, I accept your word when you say you are not the man I thought you were, and do not wish to insult you by disbelieving you.

 

With regard to the information I supplied earlier about the “Morocco man’s” problem, backed up now by Colin Leake’s conversation with a 3L auto Rapido owner who has problems too, are those who were dismissive of the problems with the 3L auto now willing to accept that there have been some instances of gearbox and/or judder problems with this combination?

 

After being lambasted on here, it would be good to know if they are willing to accept that problems do exist - there may not be many, or if there are, not many have been reported, but this does not mean they are immune unfortunately. I sincerely hope that those with 3L autos do not have the horrendous problems that some with the manual versions have had. I would also hate to think that some have specifically paid more than they initially wanted to by choosing this combination to be guaranteed it will be fault free without at least some thought as to whether there might (albeit it a very small chance) be the risk of it not being perfect.

 

To gleam some more info, there are also the following links:

 

1) On the below, look at the post from Derek in Buckinghamshire who had an auto gearbox fail - I haven't been able to make contact to find what the exact cause of the problem and rectification was.

 

http://www.roadtestreports.co.uk/car-reviews/2008/Fiat/Ducato/

 

2) On this thread, from O&A live, there are genuine concerns from respected parties about the longevity of the auto-gearbox as the consensus seems to be that the reason they may not suffer from the judder/gearbox problems so much is that the auto-changer is slipping the clutch to do this, this may not bode well for clutch life if this is the case.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/printer-friendly.asp?tid=14995&mid=

 

3) Not to do with problems, but the below is information about the Fiat and the 3L auto which some may find interesting to read:

 

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2008/cars/fiat_professional/11/ducato_australia/0411.html

 

 

[jhorsf]

Brian you appear to have taken my post as nasty in some way that was not my intention it was born out of frustration.I tried to say anyone who buys a new van and fiddles about with it resetting fault lights ie egr etc. should realise this is bound to have some effect on the performance I would label then more harshly than this but not here,That was my main reason for dismissing this as a gearbox problem and no I was not trying to upset you in some way,it is very difficult when you cannot see someones face to tell from a few words what the intention is ie BOGOF in a post following mine could be seen as rude but I think you are not that sort of person because I have seen lots of your posts.

[jhorsf]

MelB sorry to hear you have not been well thank you for your apology that is very gracious of you.If you feel I have been rude to you then for that I am sorry I have read many thing about the auto box and people are free I suppose to have their own views I have yet to be convinced they have a problem due really to a lack of evidence.I may have been a little over the top in my posts sometimes but sometimes we are all interpreted in a way we did not mean and sometimes I have been know to be a grumpy bad tempered bu88er hence the avatar meant as a joke

[Mike88]

Thank you Mel for posting these links.

 

I may have my head in the sand here but I think if there was a genuine widespread problem Nick of Euroserve and Andy Stothert would have heard. Up to now they have been qualified supporters of the Comfortmatic but they, as all of us, believe that in terms of long term reliability the jury is out. Some of the posts on your first link seem a bit worrying in terms of vehicle reliabilility and the Fiat dealer who refused to have the Comfortmatic motorhome on his forecourt should be shot. Are you watching Fiat?

 

I found the Australian link particularly interesting. Previous threads I have read suggested that the Comfortmatic was a robotised version of tha manual gearbox but this does not seem to be the case. The articles states its a new box and hopefully the gearbox ratios might be lower thus avoiding the high gear ratio problems experienced by manual gearbox versions of the 3 litre.

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello.......Just done my usual"dip-in" to see what's happening on the forum.....

 

Seems like "spat" time again......

 

I have to admit that I do find them interesting......sometimes!

 

I am not taking sides but I have a "fact" to offer.........

 

A relative has a Fiat 3ltr auto and it judders when reversing uphill.

 

One more fact....... it has been registered with Fiat and they are attending to it!

 

Oh.........If this is upsetting to anyone......sorry, but I don't care......

 

It's just a fact of life..........

 

:-D

[jhorsf]

Colin Leake - 2010-03-18 11:00 AM

 

jhorsf - 2010-03-17 4:39 PM

 

there is a guy works down the chip shop swears hes Elvis

 

Great so having accused others of not providing proof you are not prepared to do so yourself and tell us where you got your information that Fiat definitely do not have a problem! For my part I would rather rely on the first hand information I was given by an owner. Incidentally we were comparing our Rapidos and it was he who brought up the clutch problem not me.

 

Seems when someone comes up with the first hand information you asked for all you can do is hide behind a factious comment about Elvis rather than providing the information I asked you for.

 

How about telling us, or may be you can't!

 

 

 

 

 

 

First hand to who?it has to be your van for that , you think what you like its what people do, but if you cannot see my point then you cant, the comment I made about Elvis was very relevant imo at least as relevant as your comment you made about you van, if you do not like what I say you are always free to ignore it as I have done with your ****facts****.as far as I know we dont have thought police yet everyone has an opinion its just that some are based on facts and some are not.But expressing an opinion should not be done on here and presented as a truth when peoples livelihoods are affected by what you write .As regards telling you I dont believe anyone could tell you anything but then I may have got you all wrong it would not be the first time as I am only reading this and cannot see you so its difficult to know if you are just trying to be argumentative or genuine

[Brian Kirby]

jhorsf - 2010-03-18 7:53 PM Brian you appear to have taken my post as nasty in some way that was not my intention it was born out of frustration.I tried to say anyone who buys a new van and fiddles about with it resetting fault lights ie egr etc. should realise this is bound to have some effect on the performance I would label then more harshly than this but not here,That was my main reason for dismissing this as a gearbox problem and no I was not trying to upset you in some way,it is very difficult when you cannot see someones face to tell from a few words what the intention is ie BOGOF in a post following mine could be seen as rude but I think you are not that sort of person because I have seen lots of your posts.

I'm afraid that was the way it came across to me.  Explanation accepted!  :-)

I don't necessarily disagree with you regarding fiddling with the electronics, and it struck me as odd that a "normal" driver with a new van would a) know how and be equipped to do so and b) would want to risk invalidating their warranty and prejudicing their route to possible redress by so doing.

Re the BOGOF, I'm sorry if that expression is unfamiliar to you; I had thought it would be understood as meaning Buy One Get One Free - my response to yet another involuntary double post, and not as a possible response to your post!  Hope all clean now.

[Colin Leake]

jhorsf - 2010-03-19 2:09 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2010-03-18 11:00 AM

 

jhorsf - 2010-03-17 4:39 PM

 

there is a guy works down the chip shop swears hes Elvis

 

Great so having accused others of not providing proof you are not prepared to do so yourself and tell us where you got your information that Fiat definitely do not have a problem! For my part I would rather rely on the first hand information I was given by an owner. Incidentally we were comparing our Rapidos and it was he who brought up the clutch problem not me.

 

Seems when someone comes up with the first hand information you asked for all you can do is hide behind a factious comment about Elvis rather than providing the information I asked you for.

 

How about telling us, or may be you can't!

 

 

 

 

 

 

First hand to who?it has to be your van for that , you think what you like its what people do, but if you cannot see my point then you cant, the comment I made about Elvis was very relevant imo at least as relevant as your comment you made about you van, if you do not like what I say you are always free to ignore it as I have done with your ****facts****.as far as I know we dont have thought police yet everyone has an opinion its just that some are based on facts and some are not.But expressing an opinion should not be done on here and presented as a truth when peoples livelihoods are affected by what you write .As regards telling you I dont believe anyone could tell you anything but then I may have got you all wrong it would not be the first time as I am only reading this and cannot see you so its difficult to know if you are just trying to be argumentative or genuine

 

Let me assure you I am genuine. I simply reported the information that I received unsolicited first hand from the owner of the 3l Rapido. I see no reason why the information he gave to me should be anything other than genuine. Why on earth would he lie to me. Technically in doing so that information is now second hand I'll grant you but it is still valid. Next time perhaps I should ask him to come to a solicitor and swear an affidavit!

 

I'm not having a go at anyone or trying to mislead anyone. I hope I'm doing a service to those who read what I have written by reporting the facts honestly as they were given to me. I also made a point of saying it may well have been a one off and that Fiat fixed it quite quickly.

 

You though made a very positive statement that Fiat do not have a problem but seem determined not to give a positive answer to my question as to where that information comes from and why you are so sure about it.

 

I take your point about protecting jobs but how about the owner who reads and believes your statement then spends say £80,000 and find he has a problem?

[jhorsf]

Colin I do not doubt your sincerity for a moment my remark was a little flippant and meant to lighten the mood

 

 

 

[Rayjsj]

jhorsf - 2010-03-17 4:39 PM

 

there is a guy works down the chip shop swears hes Elvis

 

I met him, he eats deep fried Mars bars. Yukkk !

 

I sincerly hope that all the people that have opted to pay the extra money for the the Comfortamatic, to avoid the gearbox problems on other X250's

are OK, and that their decision works out.

A lot of us watch this forum to find out exactly what the situation is with these Vehicles. Because the dealers have to try and sell them to stay in business, and don't always point out the Bad points. This is the 'Horses Mouth' so to speak. long may it be so ! Ray

 

[greem]

Hi All

 

I've just joined the forum as my wife and i are looking to come back into motorhoming from caravanning. This thread has just scared me to death!

We were seriously looking at the Rapido 903 on a fiat standard base (2.3 engine)

The original question i was going to ask was what is the real difference between the standard fiat chassis and the fiat alko chassis with double floor.

Still want to ask the question but now i'm seriously going to look at the merc option!!

:-(

[The Decorator]

Hi Greem.

 

Get a Merc.

 

You will not find many Merc snags or problems on these forums. Its hard to understand why some still choose the FIAT. However many find them perfect, but there's too many questions to warrant them a satisfactory purchase!!

 

Be pleased you have done your homework, many do not, the final decision is yours but read well the comments published and decide accordingly.

 

Jon

[Rayjsj]

Graeme,

There are a lot of differant opinions here, both for and against the Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen X250 'Sevel' base vehicle, If you do go for one make sure that you give the one you are going to buy(as opposed to the demonstrator) a good test drive, which includes reversing up a fairly steep hill at a 'Safe' speed. To make sure you are happy with it. Before parting with your Money.

:-( Ray

P.S.Really, I agree get a Merc. it could work out cheaper in the long run.

[Colin Leake]

greem - 2010-03-21 2:43 PM

 

Hi All

 

I've just joined the forum as my wife and i are looking to come back into motorhoming from caravanning. This thread has just scared me to death!

We were seriously looking at the Rapido 903 on a fiat standard base (2.3 engine)

The original question i was going to ask was what is the real difference between the standard fiat chassis and the fiat alko chassis with double floor.

Still want to ask the question but now i'm seriously going to look at the merc option!!

 

Firstly we have had a Rapido for the last five years and they are brilliant. We have simply had no problems with ours. Do make sure you keep the fibreglass in good condition and do use proper marine grade polish as car polishes containing silicon can attack the American Gel coat that Rapido use. We use Starbrite but any good marine polish will do.

 

When Rapido say the standard Fiat chassis they mean the special camper chassis which is brilliant in all respects other than the questions on reversing judder. Before this was introduced the Al-co chassis gave better handling. Now the only advantage is the double floor which gives more space and tends to keep pipes from freezing in very cold weather.

 

Do ask yourself if you really need an A Class. They are very nice but have potential problems. If a windscreen needs replacing it is no use ringing Autoglass and expecting one to be fitted the next day. They have to be ordered and can take some time to obtain. They are also expensive and some people have found that their insurance policy has a limit on windscreen costs and will not cover the full costs. Have a minor front end accident and it will be difficult to get repaired, even the headlights are special. You will also find that whilst most Fiat commercial agents will carry out mechanical services on vans with the standard cab they don't like A class ones with engine access problems.

 

Now that Rapido do standard lowline motorhomes with drop-down beds similar to those used in the A class vans much of the reason for buying A class has been negated.

 

I don't know where you live but most Rapido owners will tell you to buy from the supplier based in Wokingham they have a very good reputation for preparation and customer service. We bought our present one from Brownhills but will not go back there when the time comes to replace it.

 

Don't be too afraid of what you read with regard the judder problems. Firstly Fiat have gone a long way to dealing with the problem provide you make sure you get a new van rather than one Browhills may have had in stock for months or even years. If you are likely to want to back up VERY steep hills there may still be a problem. Likewise if like use you have a difficult drive to back up as the reverse gear is still to high and regularly slipping the clutch will do it no good in the long run.

 

The Merc is a good option but they do tend to roll about a bit on the road even when mated to the Al-co chassis so is any of you are subject to motion sickness try a test drive before you decide which to buy.

 

Good luck. We changed from a caravan to a motorhome just before I retired and it was one of the best hings we ever did.

:-(

[The Decorator]

We have the 987M and don't find any undue rolling motion; in fact I had not given it a thought but will do so when out next week.

 

Returning to the option of what vehicle to purchase. When I buy any vehicle it’s with the objective of NEVER having ANY of the slightest mechanical problems in the future. Surely one doesn't buy anything then have to act in a certain way just because it has a built in fault for which there is no full proof answer, just a remedial additive.

 

That's how manufacturers get away with a product that's 'not fit for the purpose'. The purpose here being to drive and move a Motor Caravan on all levels and inclined planes at any time without due stress on the assembled components.

 

There should be a clause in the FIAT advertising to the effect that "on occasions care must be taken when reversing"

 

I don't doubt there are hundreds of FIAT owners quite satisfied, but how many will admit to making sure that they avoid certain parameters in their driving and parking arrangements, and trust to ‘gawd’ himself that they don’t get caught out!

 

It very simply should not be part of the acceptance of choosing FIAT.

 

 

[greem]

 

Many thanks in all your prompt replies.

 

I think the decision will be to buy Rapido and probably the 903......our problem will be size and even with all we have learnt today the sad truth is that to keep below 6.5m length we may well have to buy fiat as we cannot find a merc base under 7m.

 

life appears to be one big compromise!!

thanks to you all.

 

:'(

[silverback]

hi greem,

i am probably gonna get lambasted for my next comments, but i dont care :D

the fiat has a problem...they always have! mines 2001 and im getting the box reconditioned

the facts are, put simply, fiat produce the most base vehicles for motorhomes off the top of my head probably 80% so it follows that if you have all these fiats on the road they will report problems, ford, mercs have problems(probably) but they are the minority so problems dont get highlighted, like whats been said before drive the differant vehicles and then make your decision

and the 80% figure includes peugeot/ citreon base vehicles cos they use the same gearbox

the majority of fiats are very good vehicles so dont be influanced buy what you read on here.. keep an open mind and decide

jonathan

[The Decorator]

jonathon,

 

You're likely about right with your percentages and comments that the FIAT system produces so many. My own dislike of them goes back some 45 years but they should have been better at it by now, even their customer services appears to fail by the non responces we hear.

 

One thing is for certain they 'aint never going to stop, its impossible. Their US financial backers will make sure of that.

 

Like many disasters all through history "it was a saving of money" no doubt.

 

Regarding reverse gearing, on TV tonight on the Dimbleby programme there was justified evidence from an early Autin 7 reversing up a steep gradient with a comment 'because it is a lower gear ratio'.

 

Take note Mr FIAT its been around a long time.

 

Jon