Fiat motorhomes

[Brian Kirby]

greem - 2010-03-21 6:55 PM Many thanks in all your prompt replies. I think the decision will be to buy Rapido and probably the 903......our problem will be size and even with all we have learnt today the sad truth is that to keep below 6.5m length we may well have to buy fiat as we cannot find a merc base under 7m. life appears to be one big compromise!! thanks to you all. :'(

Not knowing how far your researches have so far gone, I'll offer this in the hope it will help.

The X250 variants all suffer from a reverse gear ratio that is too high.  In practise, this means that reversing presents one with a series of uncomfortable options.  A. Fully engage the clutch with the engine turning fast enough to run smoothly, which propels the vehicle backwards at a speed most judge to be unsafe.  B. Slip the clutch to keep the engine turning smoothly, which allows the vehicle speed to be kept down, but the clutch has low tolerance of this treatment and quickly overheats generating smoke and nasty smells, and ultimately expiring.  C. Fully engage the clutch while allowing the engine revs to drop, so as to slow the vehicle, which generates a vibration, resonance, or judder. 

How/what exactly causes this phenomenon is doubtless by now fully understood by Fiat, but they have neither developed a foolproof cure, nor revealed exactly what is the cause.

The heavier the van, and the more the resistance that has to be overcome in reversing (for example reversing up hills or over soft or uneven ground), the worse the problem becomes, since progressively higher engine revs are needed to prevent stalling, so that the vehicle either reverses even faster, damages the clutch faster, or exacerbates the vibrations etc to the point at which some gearboxes have suffered serious internal damage.

The only variant that seems to avoid these problems is the automatic.  However, it is generally accepted that the auto is, in fact, a standard manual clutch and gearbox that are operated remotely via the on-board computer.  It seems the resident software is able to sense the onset of the vibration and avert it before it becomes apparent.  Logically, it must do this by slipping the clutch while reducing the engine revs to the bare minimum to avoid a stall, but it seems able to strike a balance that drivers of the manual versions cannot "feel" or maintain.

There is a residual suspicion, therefore, that the autos may suffer premature clutch failure due to accelerated wear, but probably only where extensive uphill or uneven ground reversing manoeuvres have been executed.  However, since there are not that many autos around as motorhome bases, there is presently insufficient data available to indicate whether this suspicion is well founded.  Al in all, therefore, there is a high probability that manual versions will suffer as described, and an unquantifiable risk that automatics may suffer premature clutch failure.

[bobalobs]

On Seven Ages of Britain on BBC1 last night David Dimbleby showed Austin 7 cars reversing up steep hills rather than going forwards as their reverse gear ratios were lower than first. How times have changed------ for the better?!

[Mike88]

Brian. With regard to your comments about the Fiat auto box you might like to see the link below which suggests the gearbox is not an automated version of the manual box but a completely new box built from the ground up. (link kindly supplied by Mel)

 

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2008/cars/fiat_professional/11/ducato_australia/0411.html

 

This, I agree flies in the face of what everyone has been saying about this gearbox unless its PR from Fiat that is disingenuous in its claims.

 

 

 

 

[Jodi]

We've made a decision and we are buying a 4 year old Autocruise Stardream with a Peugeot engine. If the right style of van at the right price had a Fiat engine, I think we would have gone for it. What van we bought was highly dependent on whether it worked for us as far as the habitation was concerned. If we had found the right van with a Ford engine, hubby would have been very happy as we used to have a ranger pick up which gave us no trouble whatsoever. We pick it up in 3 weeks time and are planning a short shakedown trip away near the dealers, just in case.

The dealer has told us that the handover will take 2 hours and the van will be serviced (a full one) and MOT'ed and detailed, before handover. Feel confident that we have found the right van and a good dealer. Just looking at little cars to tow behind it now as we have decided that the Fiesta will be too much.

[Rayjsj]

Jodi,

Congratulations, Hope the van lives up to your expectations. Is your 4 year old van (2006) a 'New' style' Bug eyed, or the older style ?

(if the older style) they were at the peak of their developement before the change, with all (most) of the 'wrinkles' ironed out. If the 'new' make sure it has had the 'Fixes' done to the gearbox.

I know that 'Layout' is voted most peoples 'Reason to buy' but for me if the base vehicle isn't 'Right' I'll pass it by.

That being said apart from Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen there isn't a lot of choice. Have a great Time ! :-) Ray

 

PS It's never been the engines that were the problem.

[colin]

Mike88 - 2010-03-22 8:59 AM

 

Brian. With regard to your comments about the Fiat auto box you might like to see the link below which suggests the gearbox is not an automated version of the manual box but a completely new box built from the ground up. (link kindly supplied by Mel)

 

Not nessararly, the box for 3l may have been designed from outset to be both manual and automated. I think maybe nick might have better idea if this is true.

[euroserv]

Mike88 - 2010-03-22 8:59 AM

 

Brian. With regard to your comments about the Fiat auto box you might like to see the link below which suggests the gearbox is not an automated version of the manual box but a completely new box built from the ground up. (link kindly supplied by Mel)

 

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2008/cars/fiat_professional/11/ducato_australia/0411.html

 

This, I agree flies in the face of what everyone has been saying about this gearbox unless its PR from Fiat that is disingenuous in its claims.

 

 

 

Mike,

 

That is a very interesting article and at first glance it would appear to be misleading, but it is not really, just a clever bit of manipulation of the truth;

 

The gearbox for the 3.0L Ducato was designed from the outset to be automated (or not). If it was not, it could not have been easily modified later, could it?

 

It is an absolute and verified fact that the two versions share a common gearbox with the comfort-matic having electro hydraulic actuators bolted on and a computer that works with the engine management to perform the changes. Even the clutch that is inside is exactly the same in both versions.

 

I think the article was written by PR people that are trying to create an illusion, but it is not too hard to see past.

 

Nick