hallii Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Does the 2.2 engine /gearbox suffer with the dreaded judder or is it, as I am assured by a salesman, "not affected by judder in any shape or form." I am also told that the 2.2 100PS engine is in fact a Ford engine. Am I being told porkies? Thanks Hallii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 hallii - 2010-03-14 12:25 PM Does the 2.2 engine /gearbox suffer with the dreaded judder or is it, as I am assured by a salesman, "not affected by judder in any shape or form." I am also told that the 2.2 100PS engine is in fact a Ford engine. Am I being told porkies? Thanks Hallii I have had a 2.2 engine/5 speed box since 2008, now covered some 19000 miles with no problems and no judder, engine is Ford. Have heard of a few with reverse problems re this engine & box combination but do not really understand why as they should all be the same. The engine also has a cam chain rather than a belt and solid flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 This sounds the same engine I had in my 56 reg Elddis Autoquest. The engine never missed a beat and reversed without judder. The only problem I had with the gearbox was it would not go into gear when the temperature was below zero. At worst, I only got 3 gears. It was driveable and once the box warmed up (after about a mile) everything was back to normal. They could have fitted a different box in the meantime. Why I do not know as the ratios were good and I got decent mpg, unless I had a headwind.(it was an overcab). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Lifted from 'main' thread. Geoff Tuckley - 2010-03-11 2:26 PM First time on this thread but I have taken my van today to have a "Technical Assessment" by the FIAT Dealership. My van is a 2.2 diesel multijet. Since 2008 when it was new I have been on to FIAT again and again like most of you. All that happened is that every time I phoned they gave me a new reference no. In October last I received a letter from FIAT saying that although THERE IS NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE 2.2, I was to take it to my local FIAT dealership who would test it out for the judder. Did this and went out in the van with a mechanic who had been schooled by FIAT to say that the revs must be kept really high and there would be no problem. He said this tongue in cheek. We agreed that there is a judder and that slipping the clutch for any distance or going like hell in reverse is not the answer. The agents said they would report the case to FIAT that day and are sympathetic to my case. Lovely, now we might get somewhere. No such luck! Phoned FIAT last week to tell them we are back from winter break so the van is available at any time for them to repair. They sent me a reply asking me to take the van back to the agents for a "Technical Assessment". Took it this morning and was asked to leave it and return for it tomorrow. When I enquired as to what the assessment consisted of I was told it is just the same as last time. The agency is sympathetic and I suppose it makes work for them but neither of us seem to be able to get any forward movement from FIAT. A local builder has just had his 2.2 van done and is really pleased with the result. I suppose I am just another frustrated FIAT customer but it is disapointing when having bought a van for our retirement it does not measure up to the basic standards you would expect from any new vehicle. If you get a 5 speed and it judders there is no fix for this, as you will note Geoff has kept quiet about this it would seem hoping Fiat would come up with a fix, this I have noted elsewhere that owners have not reported the problem, well it might say in that story book 'the bible' that "the meak will inherit the earth" but unless these owners start kicking up a fuss they will not get a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Hello, Folks, Forgive my ignorance but I have a FIAT 2.2 100 Multijet with a right good judder. How do I know if this engine was manufactured by Ford or is it a completely different engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Colin, You could not be more wrong! The van was registered in 2008 and from the time it went in for its first service I have been onto FIAT on more occasions than I can count. Yes, I realise that there has been a fair time between then and now but I never regarded that as being a NO from FIAT. There are obviously a lot of vehicles which need attention and it is equally as obvious that there are vehicles which have been repaired by FIAT and their owners are happy with them. Try reading all the threads! By the way, there is nothing meek (correct spelling) about this guy - so let's keep the record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Hallii, Looks like you were being told 'porkies', whatever you decide, Make sure that you give 'Your actual Van' ( not just a demonstrator) a test drive before handing over the money. Because as been said, although they are all meant to be the same, they are not. Ray :-( ps If the Demonstrator doesn't judder maybe, get that one.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Geoff, getting on to Fiat will only get you so far, the ONLY reason the 6 speed has the (half hearted) fix is because of the bad publicity on here and 'the dark side', you went public a couple of days ago, if there are more 5 speed owners with this problem and they also come forward there will be a fix. As I understand it your engine is part Ford, Andy I think has more details as to which parts are Ford and which are Fiat/Pug, is there any particular reason you wish to know origin of engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 hallii - 2010-03-14 12:25 PM Does the 2.2 engine /gearbox suffer with the dreaded judder or is it, as I am assured by a salesman, "not affected by judder in any shape or form." I am also told that the 2.2 100PS engine is in fact a Ford engine. Am I being told porkies? Thanks Hallii The only way the salesman could say with any certainty that they were not affected would be if he had checked out the situation thoroughly, not just via Fiat, and found no evidence of any judder cases - this is something which he can't possibly have done as there is evidence that some DO have judder problems. He is telling you LIES - not little porkies - great big fat LIES!. I would strongly suggest you DO NOT use that dealership! If the salesman is denying all knowledge then what would happen if you DID have a problem! Ultimately its up to you, but IMV the dealership is untrustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hello, To clear up any confusion I thought it best to add a few facts; The 2.2 engine used in all X250 vehicles (Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat) is a joint venture Ford/Peugeot design called 'Puma'. The gearboxes fitted to the X250 are completely different to the ones fitted to the Ford Transit. This applies to the 100hp version, the 120 and 130hp Peugeots are also this Puma engine while Fiat use their own 2.3 at 120 and 130hp. The 3.0 engine is used by all of the X250 partners and it is a Fiat unit that is also used in the Iveco Daily. The previous vehicle (2002 to 2006) also was available with a 2.2 which was a Peugeot/Citroen only design called DW12 which was actually just an enlarged 2.0 DW10 that was used in just about every PSA diesel car from about 1998! Only the 2.0 DW10 was used by Fiat; they had their own 2.3JTD which they did not share with PSA. In fact PSA also had to soldier on with their aging 2.5TD until Fiat finally let them use the 2.8JTD (which they called HDi) in 2001. Clearer? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Thanks, Nick, A whole lot clearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 euroserv - 2010-03-15 10:54 AM The 2.2 engine used in all X250 vehicles (Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat) is a joint venture Ford/Peugeot design called 'Puma'. The gearboxes fitted to the X250 are completely different to the ones fitted to the Ford Transit. Nick Hi , Does this mean that my van (autocruise Stargazer 2.2l 6 speed box) registered October 2008 has the Ford engine. and gearbox? is it also true that Ford based vans dont suffer the judder/vibration problems, If so, what is different ( chassis, ?mountings?) as Mine suffers the reverse up hill backwards problem and I am told there is no further known cure. It has been "fixed" (3 attempts to date), and I am running out of warranty time Could a ford box be fitted to my van, and if so would it become vibration proof. ( mine is front wheel drive vehicle). would Nick care to comment? tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Err, no. Without having dissected either variant I can say with some certainty that even though the 2.2L engines are basically the same in the transit and X250 there will be some differences in the way that the gearbox mounts to the engine block and in turn where the engine and gearbox are suspended from the chassis. If they were interchangeable I am sure that Peugeot would have been looking into this by now. In the same way as the previous 2.0 Transit engine is basically the same as a Mondeo unit but other than the cylinder head, most of the ancilliary items and gearbox are different. Sorry. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 So if the Multi-jet 100 is a Ford/Pugeot engine where do you get it serviced.. Ford, Pugeot or Fiat? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 David Dwight - 2010-03-15 8:53 PM So if the Multi-jet 100 is a Ford/Pugeot engine where do you get it serviced.. Ford, Pugeot or Fiat? David The best advice would be to look at the bonnet or front grille. On there you will find a large badge. If it says "Peugeot", you take it to a Peugeot dealer. If it says "Fiat", then you go to a Fiat dealer. :-D :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 emmbeedee, On the front of mine the badge says Autotrail. I use our local mechanic who has serviced all our cars etc for the last 20 years, he is Citreon trained, he started out specializing on 2CV's which he races. He does a good job and cheaper than most. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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