euroserv Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hello all, We in the world of van rental had a tough year in 2009, and as a precaution purchased few new vehicles but now I have in my posession a price list for 2010 which has proven very enlightening; If you wished to purchase a Comfort Matic gearbox up to now you would have had to first of all stump up for the 3.0L engine which was and still is about £1600 more than a 2.3L You also had to have the 'ESP' option as well as the 'Comfort-matic' which was £325 plus £1100. Now these options are £203 and £233.35! To be clear.... These prices are from the 2009 UK options price list which I am assured is current for 2010 and was sent to me by Fiat UK along with the 2010 van price list. The reductions were applicable from September 2009 and are only valid for UK supplied vehicles but I am certain that similar reductions would have been in place elsewhere in europe. (When did the UK ever get a better deal?) The prices stated are plus Vat and don't forget that even the smaller converter would be getting at least 35% off those prices as well. This is just food for thought and I would hope it would help you to get a fair deal on your new vehicle. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Could this be Fiat trying to encourage all 3 litre purchasers to purchase the Comformatic so as to reduce the pressure on them to resolve the "denied" problems with the 3 litre manual?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Honestly? I can't think of any other reason because they can't be making any money out of it! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Spot on! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 That's good news for new purchasers but not so good for existing owners as the premium an auto attracts will be lost. That said I wonder how much the converters will charge for the Comfortmatic? One thing is certain, they will want a lot more than the figures Nick has quoted because they know we are all ripe for being ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Why does nobody ever consider NOT BUYING ONE as a viable alternative to being ripped off? Vote with your feet and your cheque books for goodness sake! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 euroserv - 2010-03-17 3:10 PM Why does nobody ever consider NOT BUYING ONE as a viable alternative to being ripped off? Vote with your feet and your cheque books for goodness sake! Nick Well Hooray to that!!!! If everyone just refused to buy the things, Swift et al, who refuse to build on anything else, would soon wake up & smell the coffee! And who knows, maybe even Fiat would actually DO something about it. (Ducks whilst pigs fly by). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Nick. You are right; that is exactly what we should do. But we are all barking and the manufacturers know it. Talk about being ripped off ...........I've just been sold a set of Fiat locking wheel nuts for £76. I know I'm mad but life is too short. Fiat might sell cheap vehicles but they more than make up for it with ludicrously expensive spare parts. I'm clearly not alone as there are very many mad motorhomers out there especially amongst Fiat owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 And if everyone votes with their feet Fiat will reduce the price of the comfortmatic to that of the manual and soon claim the manual sales have dropped to such a level that it is being discontinued. Problem solved for Fiat but what about existing owners of manuals with "denied" problems? Final stage is when the comfortmatic increases in price due to inflation/ exchange rate/ unforeseen market variables(?)/the punter will pay or any reason they like to conjure up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Sorry. No idea where the yellow question mark came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Ok, let's really stir things up a bit then; The Ducato chassis cab 3.5T with a 3.0L engine is £22510 but the coachbuilts with the al-ko rear end are sold as a 'back to back' cab at about £20,700. These prices are before VAT and are subject to discounts of at least 40% meaning that your base vehicle costs them about £12500! They will get less discount on a SWB 3000kg chassis with the 2.2L engine and that would come to them at about £11000 The economics of the conversion process elude me somewhat but I expect that you get gold plated taps and nappa leather seating, plasma tv's and a set of solid silver steak knives for the money you are charged?? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi Nick, Fantastic info, But have you any idea what a Ford or Merc chassis would cost a converter as a comparison? Keith. PS I for one will never, ever be buying a F**t (I can't even bring myself to say that dreaded word). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 euroserv - 2010-03-17 3:10 PM Why does nobody ever consider NOT BUYING ONE as a viable alternative to being ripped off? Vote with your feet and your cheque books for goodness sake! Nick Sorry Nick, but in my case it is because the vehicle I wanted is only available on Sprinter or Ducato. The Sprinter is far too high for my carport and, I believe, is way overpriced when directly compared to all the favourable bits of the Ducato. After giving it all due consideration the choice was quite easy really and I quite enjoy the Comfortmatic too. I don't condone the behaviour of Fiat regarding the handling of the recognised problems but, ultimately, each of us has to choose the vehicle right for us. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I wonder how the price 'rationalisation' will affect those base vans already made and in the UK and washing about in the system waiting for conversion - not a lot is my guess so don't hold your breath waiting for the new price to filter down - if it ever does! The only thing that works in capitalism is supply and demand and when demand slumps prices fall! Nobody HAS to buy a new van as there are plenty of very fine slightly used and hardly run in vans out there - even if they are all manual gearboxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Could some of the cost reduction be due to the fact that a great many more are now ordered as auto and with that, the cost of buying in, in bulk is now greatly reduced as most 3litres are now auto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 jhorsf - 2010-03-17 7:43 PM Could some of the cost reduction be due to the fact that a great many more are now ordered as auto and with that, the cost of buying in, in bulk is now greatly reduced as most 3litres are now auto? Always possible? However since when did increased supply mean lower prices in a free market economy - increased supply just means increased profits. On the other hand as Fiat are known for their benevolence and charity work among the poor motorhome users of Europe I might be wrong - I hope so but am not holding my breath! I might even consider one myself but for I don't want an auto and I don't need 160bhp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Tracker - 2010-03-17 7:46 PM jhorsf - 2010-03-17 7:43 PM Could some of the cost reduction be due to the fact that a great many more are now ordered as auto and with that, the cost of buying in, in bulk is now greatly reduced as most 3litres are now auto? Always possible? However since when did increased supply mean lower prices in a free market economy - increased supply just means increased profits. Its been a long time since I studied economics but the answer to your statement ......"since when did increased supply mean lower prices in a free market economy........................." the answer is that you omitted to consider the effect of "demand" on price. A basic element of the law of supply and demand is that if the supply rises without a corresponding rise in demand the price will fall. I don't think this necessarily takes the discussion further forward or alters the conclusion reached but thought that I would point it out anyway as the question was asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I Have just been on to Fiat and they are quoting £1,390.91 today? As I have just ordered a new motorhome with the comformatic option at the Feb NEC I would like to know where you got the prices from if you could let me know I would be grateful. ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 The list that i have is the Fiat Auto Uk options price list effective Jan 2009 and the price changes are clearly marked as 'orderable' from November 2009. (I mis-read it as September yesterday..sorry) I am told that this list is still current by Fiat Fleet. Dualogic (or comfort-matic) is option 407 and has to be taken with ESP which is option 392. Total price before VAT is £532.88 This was e-mailed to me by Fiat Professional Fleet this week. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 That, I think, is the explanation. What Nick is revealing (naughty Nick, watch your tail!! :-)) is the fleet prices, and what anyone else gets are the retail prices from franchised dealers before any discount is applied. What price applies to the converters is anyone's guess, but I suspect comes from another price list, and the converters merely charge on the options at the full retail price. Realistically, I guess they would, though as the autos seem to generate fewer problems than the manuals, one might wonder at the logic of taking that route. Sell cheap autos and avoid the manual transmission problems? Could this become the new black? Well, it might if all those with juddering manuals went to their dealers with their complaints, instead of to Fiat, so that the dealers rammed the complaints back to the converters who, of course, buy the chassis from the likes of Fiat. But you won't, will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Brian, Not true. The list that I have is the same as the list that each and every Fiat Professional dealer is working from. I have set discounts for each weight of vehicle that are not shown on this list. Ask your Fiat dealer to show it to you or give you a copy 'to consider your options' and he will not be able to refuse. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Then my apologies Nick. But you did say "This was e-mailed to me by Fiat Professional Fleet this week." So, as fleet prices have generally been far lower than the full retail version, I guess I jumped to the the wrong conclusion. Silly me! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Brian, That is, I think the most important issue regarding these faulty Fiats (and Peugeots). If you had a faulty hard drive in a new computer you would take it back to where you bought it; not start persuing the makers of the drive! Your contract is with whoever sold the goods to you. Tell them to take it to the manufacturer's representative for repair and ask for a replacement vehicle while they have yours. I will no doubt be lambasted for this but this is another example of we Brits just rolling over and politely accepting whatever bull is shovelled over us. It has got to stop. I am not suggesting that macho, agressive behaviour should ever be the norm but you have a right to expect certain standards and are fully backed up by the law. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I, for one, shall not lambaste you for that comment, Nick. However, I don't think this is so much a case of us accepting the bull, but just being out of date in our thinking. I think a lot of people are stuck in the distant past, when your only hope of rectifying a defective product was if it came with a manufacturer's guarantee. It is absolutely the seller who is legally liable for the goods he sells. The guarantee given by the manufacturer is, or should be, treated as just a cherry on the cake. Instead, it seems it has been very widely treated as though it were the cake.The problems arise when the seller refuses to comply with his legal obligations, and the buyer seeks legal redress. However, as virtually no-one has taken that road (or at least, no-one has declared doing so), I won't go into those problems here. As you say, there is no point in being aggressive, and it is unwise to start off threatening legal action, but the selling dealer is exactly where the buyer should go first. In view of the persistent and recurrent nature of this problem, I think buyers should refuse to take their vans to Fiat/Peugeot garage for repairs, but politely insist on demonstrating the problem to the motorhome dealer, and then ask them to have the necessary repairs carried out themselves. This is, after all, their legal obligation and, until more of them are forced to face up to the problem, it will simply continue to fester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 On Fiat Pro website still shows esp at £348.50 & Comfortmatic at £1,183.75 all + VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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