Madmaggott Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Motorcaravan/ Perhaps members might wish to sign the above petition on the No10 website requesting that local authorities remove height/width barriers from their carparks etc to enable motorhomes to use them in the same way that all other private vehicles may? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Duly Filled in ! Ray :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Elswood Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Yep! Just signed, I hope this petition adds some weight to the cause, but I doubt it! We all live in hope!! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 As you say, worth a try! Better than endangering one's health by fuming with impotent rage when trying to find somewhere to park. After all, we're only trying to access their shops/restaurants/cafes in order to spend some money!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 This petition was mentioned on another forum last December. As was pointed out then, local government implement the barriers not national government. As the government said themselves in this response to an earlier petition: "Responsibility for policy on parking rests with the relevant local traffic authorities and it is for them to decide on appropriate policies that balance the needs of local residents, emergency services, local businesses, and those who work in and visit the area." The current government - and the one we have later this year when the petition ends - will not bring in the primary legislation needed to make the change requested. I'm surprised that anyone from the Association of British Drivers is naive enough not to understand that. Persuading local authorities to use the powers they already have by providing positive examples of why it will be beneficial is much more likely to have the desired result. Only trouble is finding people willing to provide those positive messages. Judging by the responses to previous similar threads most motorhome owners do not wish (for whatever reason) to do so. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Not wanting to be negative,But if the Barriers where removed who do you think would be there before you could get in and who are the worst people to remove,certainly not you or me, it was tried in the town where I used to live and the Traveling Fraternity filled near all the car park,s without barriers and it was hell and all to remove them and when the where eventually removed the rubbish they left took weeks to shift. now all the barriers are back,its not you and me they are after stopping parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 That's about the sum total of it, the M/H users are not the problem, any petition to lift barriers just aids those who produce a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 So why not make them open to people who have PAID their Road Tax, (should be electronically possible) that should keep all the travellers out ! Penalising law abiding people, because there are lawbreakers about, means that the law needs Enforcing properly or re-writing. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Rayjsj - 2010-03-22 8:09 PM So why not make them open to people who have PAID their Road Tax, (should be electronically possible) that should keep all the travellers out ! Penalising law abiding people, because there are lawbreakers about, means that the law needs Enforcing properly or re-writing. Ray I don't know how many "travellers" have paid their road tax or not but to make it electronically possible would, I expect, be pretty costly - especially as most height barriers are fixed and current tax discs include no electronics. On the second point of rewriting legislation, though, this is what I and a few others keep banging on about. The problem is that to achieve such a rewrite requires sufficient people to make positive, evidenced approaches to the relevant authorities. That is where it falls down. Very few people, for whatever reason, are actually interested in putting that sort of effort in. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 GJH - 2010-03-22 11:00 PM Rayjsj - 2010-03-22 8:09 PM So why not make them open to people who have PAID their Road Tax, (should be electronically possible) that should keep all the travellers out ! Penalising law abiding people, because there are lawbreakers about, means that the law needs Enforcing properly or re-writing. Ray I don't know how many "travellers" have paid their road tax or not but to make it electronically possible would, I expect, be pretty costly - especially as most height barriers are fixed and current tax discs include no electronics. On the second point of rewriting legislation, though, this is what I and a few others keep banging on about. The problem is that to achieve such a rewrite requires sufficient people to make positive, evidenced approaches to the relevant authorities. That is where it falls down. Very few people, for whatever reason, are actually interested in putting that sort of effort in. Graham Couldn't agree more Graham. The occasions I have tried to encourage participation/action (eg aires for England) the response was terrible. I am still in email contact with Exeter Council (presently awaiting a reply to my last) and if this was replicated across the country we would achieve some results. Any success can be used as pressure on reluctant councils. I am afraid to say though that the whinge and whine brigade are too busy with other things to do anything useful*-) Councils have budgets and any changes have to be costed so any approach needs to bear this in mind and putting your name to a petition to the wrong people aint going to work. Waste of time. Now writing to right the people with a carefully compiled letter requesting a meeting to discuss the matter is much more constructive. Oh yes and telling us here what is happening will be even better(lol) Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Porky - 2010-03-24 1:52 PM Couldn't agree more Graham. The occasions I have tried to encourage participation/action (eg aires for England) the response was terrible. I am still in email contact with Exeter Council (presently awaiting a reply to my last) and if this was replicated across the country we would achieve some results. Any success can be used as pressure on reluctant councils. I am afraid to say though that the whinge and whine brigade are too busy with other things to do anything useful*-) Councils have budgets and any changes have to be costed so any approach needs to bear this in mind and putting your name to a petition to the wrong people aint going to work. Waste of time. Now writing to right the people with a carefully compiled letter requesting a meeting to discuss the matter is much more constructive. Oh yes and telling us here what is happening will be even better(lol) Roy Fuller Thanks Roy, hope you're successful in the end with Exeter. If more people who profess to want more facilities for MHs put the same sort of effort in, rather than just whinging and whining, I'm sure success would follow. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 GJH - 2010-03-22 11:00 PM On the second point of rewriting legislation, though, this is what I and a few others keep banging on about. The problem is that to achieve such a rewrite requires sufficient people to make positive, evidenced approaches to the relevant authorities. That is where it falls down. Very few people, for whatever reason, are actually interested in putting that sort of effort in. Graham Err, I thought that is what signing this petition was about, trying to get relevent authorities to change the law.?? If you mean going to local public meetings to try to influence County Councils, I've tried that, a whole meeting (in Fishguard) voted against 'Pay and Display' charges as being 'the Death Knell' for local business's. Not one vote in favour ! Guess what ? 'Pay and display' starts 1st April, against 100% opposition from ALL local councillors ! only 'Direct Action' seems to have any effect. 8-) 8-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Rayjsj - 2010-03-24 2:08 PM GJH - 2010-03-22 11:00 P Guess what ? 'Pay and display' starts 1st April, against 100% opposition from ALL local councillors ! only 'Direct Action' seems to have any effect. 8-) 8-) Ray But just because that was a failure that does not mean it is the wrong approach, and you can't get more direct than at local level. The more removed people in power are from anything that directly affects them the less likely they are to be interested. My old gran used to say if at first you don't succeed......>:-) Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Rayjsj - 2010-03-24 2:08 PM GJH - 2010-03-22 11:00 PM On the second point of rewriting legislation, though, this is what I and a few others keep banging on about. The problem is that to achieve such a rewrite requires sufficient people to make positive, evidenced approaches to the relevant authorities. That is where it falls down. Very few people, for whatever reason, are actually interested in putting that sort of effort in. Graham Err, I thought that is what signing this petition was about, trying to get relevent authorities to change the law.?? If you mean going to local public meetings to try to influence County Councils, I've tried that, a whole meeting (in Fishguard) voted against 'Pay and Display' charges as being 'the Death Knell' for local business's. Not one vote in favour ! Guess what ? 'Pay and display' starts 1st April, against 100% opposition from ALL local councillors ! only 'Direct Action' seems to have any effect. 8-) 8-) Ray No Ray, I certainly don't mean going along to public meetings (which I have done myself in the past). They tend to be narrowly focused, often bring forth non-constructive, emotive comments and - as you found with P&D - can give attendees the impression that what happens at the meeting will have a greater weight placed upon it than other factors. The way to approach councils is to contact them by writing (in Roy's words) "a carefully compiled letter requesting a meeting to discuss the matter". E-mail can be used these days, rather than a letter, and is actually preferable sometimes as it can be copied to all the relevant officers and members. Where a meeting can be useful is at an early stage, where it is one on one at a local councillor's surgery, as that could help to bring the ward councillor(s) on board and facilitate negotiation with officers and other members. The provision of MH facilities (daytime or overnight) in any given area will not happen overnight or as the result of a single meeting but only as a result of people putting in the necessary effort over (probably) several months and several meetings and letters/e-mails. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Car park facilities could actually be an earner for councils. I would happily pay to park overnight en-route and if there were a coin slot power supply so much the better. Barriers could still be fitted to get around the 'travellers who don't move on' problem; these would automatically raise when the valid ticket is read by the barrier. (These type already are in use at various park and ride car parks that I have used.) A waste disposal point within coin operated WC block would be useful as well. All of these would earn revenue from car parks that normally stand empty overnight and in the evenings. It is just far more convenient to be able to pull into a car park for the night than to have to try to find a site to stay overnight en-route. The idea of a MH is to be able to roam freely and we sold our caravan because we do not want to stay for days on end in the same place hence it is difficult to know in advance where we will end up at nightfall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Madmaggott - 2010-03-25 5:12 PM Car park facilities could actually be an earner for councils. I would happily pay to park overnight en-route and if there were a coin slot power supply so much the better. Barriers could still be fitted to get around the 'travellers who don't move on' problem; these would automatically raise when the valid ticket is read by the barrier. (These type already are in use at various park and ride car parks that I have used.) A waste disposal point within coin operated WC block would be useful as well. All of these would earn revenue from car parks that normally stand empty overnight and in the evenings. Those are certainly interesting points. Have you approached any councils to point out the extent to which car parks could be an earner (over and above set-up and running costs)? Unless someone does so, how are councils to know? I've used P&Rs but only in other areas of the country (we don't have any around Tees-side) but have never heard of those tickets. How would one ensure that 'travellers who don't move on' couldn't get hold of them? It is just far more convenient to be able to pull into a car park for the night than to have to try to find a site to stay overnight en-route. Yes, it may well be convenient for motorhome owners but is it convenient for the rest of the population which councils have to serve? We have to remember that our requirements are not shared by everyone. On a similar thread on another forum a few days ago it was pointed out that the proportion of the population (and visitors) having motorhomes in France is much higher than it is here. Hardly surprising then that provision of facilities in France is more of a fact of life because, unlike the UK, local authorities are aware of the demand. Once again, there is a requirement for people to provide structured evidence to councils in order to show the demand that is there. The idea of a MH is to be able to roam freely and we sold our caravan because we do not want to stay for days on end in the same place hence it is difficult to know in advance where we will end up at nightfall! I'm sure that the idea of many people when they bought a motorhome was that they would be able to roam freely. I admit that I never realised that daytime parking might be so difficult in some cases. However, is the ability to roam freely really a realistic idea or more of an assumption which is not founded in fact? As regards knowing where one might end up at nightfall then I feel we have to be practical. Unless there is a change in this country resulting in more stopping places then we have to work on the assumption that there will be nowhere convenient to stop for the night, if we just travel on spec, and plan our travels accordingly. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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