moyne Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Whilst I may have been silent for sometime I remain vigilant to the cause. One of these days my case will brought before a court and I will at least get a fair hearing and trusting in the obvious those that have suffered the continuous difficulties like myself will be vindicated. Glad to see some respondents still in there. Life would be boring without those that challnge us ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Nice to hear from you again moyne, I do hope you get there in the end. It will require a significant shift in attitudes but you purchasers of motorhomes must remember that the contract into which you have entered is with the dealer and is for a complete motorhome. If you are not happy with it, you must take it to the dealer (or if they are any good, get them to collect it) and make it clear that they must get it repaired to your satisfaction or you will expect a replacement or a refund. You do not have a contract with the maker of the chassis on which the vehicle is based, you should not have to come into contact with the agents of the manufacturer unless you are having it serviced. There is much legislation that supports you in any claim against the seller of a defective product but your case will be weakened considerably if you accept that you have a warranty offered by the chassis maker alone, and start trying to sort things out yourself. Many months may pass during which you will probably not be able to use your vehicle and you will be losing money all the time. There is no difference when it comes to purchasing a used vehicle either. If it proves to be defective, take it back and if it does not get sorted to your satisfaction, get your money back. Don't piddle about with the chassis maker and their warranties. You bought it from a dealer who is responsible for selling you a defective vehicle and that is the end of it. If you buy something that you know has a problem you still have rights, but you pretty much deserve whatever happens to you and your investment. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Nick, I know that you are correct about the Dealer being the first 'point of contact', but looking at other threads here it looks like quite few Dealers might not 'be around' to honour the manufacturers warranty. What then ? The manufacturer's nominated 'new dealer' will often be many many miles from the customers home. More Hassle, (and the dealer feels that he 'owes you nothing' because you were not HIS customer) More reason to deal directly with Converter and Chassis manufacturer. We are talking about a 'New' product to the customer.We deserve better. Ray I know this isn't about 'Judder' but it's 'longwinded' resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Who put me on page 3 BUMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Just got back from my second holiday of hiring a motorhome this year, the first was in a Ford fwd 3.5ton 6.3m long, no problems reversing, this last one was in a Ford rwd 5.2ton 7.6m (o.k. it was slushbox) no problems reversing, but apparently according to some sales persons it's my driving thats the problem with causing judder when reversing a Fiat. A little aside, some have commented on problems with stalling/wheelspin on Ford fwd but I found no problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Brambles Fiat driving School. Just think if we worked out the technique we could make a fortune..... Driving all vehicles is not the same, come along for tuition and learn how to reverse a Fiat transmission without judder. £50 an hour, by appointment only. Contact: First_Independant_ Academy_(of)_Transmission@brambles.biz otherwise known as FIAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Once again Nick has given you a straight answer. The manufacturer has no legality with the end user neither you with them. Return the vehicle to the dealer as not fit etc: like you would when buying a shirt from M&S. If the shirt has half a sleeve no one would be expected to contact the maker to complain and ask for an explanation. If you decide after 6 months however that its not suitable, tough as you have accepted the article and used it. Same difference. art euroserv - 2010-05-12 5:09 PM There is no difference when it comes to purchasing a used vehicle either. If it proves to be defective, take it back and if it does not get sorted to your satisfaction, get your money back. Don't piddle about with the chassis maker and their warranties. You bought it from a dealer who is responsible for selling you a defective vehicle and that is the end of it. If you buy something that you know has a problem you still have rights, but you pretty much deserve whatever happens to you and your investment. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Jon, The old 'it's your driving style that's at fault' came soon after 'It's a characteristic of these vehicles' in the long list of Evasions from Fiat in the early days of this problem, for 3 litre manual gearbox versions they are STILL saying it. I am quite disgusted that almost all UK converters are using these base vehicles exclusively. I am especially disapointed with Autosleeper who have closed down production on Ford based Conversions, taking away a choice of something other than an X250 based UK coachbuilt. (I know that IH and Marquis/AS do Mercedes based vans ,but at a very high price.) And now the Used market has many X250's with a question mark over their gearbox/Clutch longevity. Not a good time for Inexperienced buyers. Be careful out there. :-( Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Hunt Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hi Sad to report our Peugeot based Auto Sleeper does judder when reversing on damp grass. The vehicle is new (April 2010 registered) and had no problem reversing uphill on good tarmac surface but discovered horrible judder on grass this weekend. Just had 1k 'service' and although the Peugeot dealer could not confirm the van's factory birthday, as A/S had not processed this information onto the Peugeot website (so said the Peugeot dealer) as they should have, he did say that since 2009 all vehicles have been factory modified and mine did not flag up the need for modification when the computer was fed the vin number suggesting therefore it was modded at birth. So no further mods available, he claimed standard vans OK now but those with the conversion on the back could still pose a problem in certain circumstances. So it would appear we have not yet really moved on. I do wonder whether the flimsy (by comparison) construction of coachbuilts amplifies the resonance but as a counter to this it did seem to offer the shaking immediately as soon as the clutch engaged and with very little backward movement yet underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Sorry to hear your news. Your Nuevo is a small coachbuilt so any argument that too large a conversion has been fitted to a chassis can not apply. As we have vans of similar weight and age it would help if you could be more specific as to the circumstances when the judder occured. Was the grass wet or wet? Was it uphill and if so unusually steep or the usual slightly sloping pitches often found on sites. As you know ours is a Fiat but I shall be interested to see how ours behaves in similar conditions. On our travels tomorrow so hope to hear before as your problem worries me and I am sure many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Sorry. Should read " was the grass wet or long?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Hunt Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hi Robert, The grass was short, wet after Saturday's rain, although a well drained and not at all muddy site. There was a small incline, front of van to back and the reason I was reversing was to drive forward onto ramps to level the van. It was not a steep incline and we had already slept in the van two nights without using ramps, to give you an idea of the rise and fall. To clarify further the vehicle is a 6 speed 2.2, 130bhp. Hope you do not encounter the same problem, the Fiat gearbox and engine is different I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Neil Hunt - 2010-06-02 1:32 PM So no further mods available, he claimed standard vans OK now but those with the conversion on the back could still pose a problem in certain circumstances. His claim of 'standard' vans being OK is incorrect, there are still panelvans coming out of the factory that judder. As I've always stated, never had a problem with judder on tarmac even on early vans, but its when they get on grass that the problems start. If you feel it's a problem you must now take it up with dealer to get it fixed, even if they haven't got a fix and will proboly just pass you on to Peugeot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 colin - 2010-06-02 7:39 PM /QUOTE] His claim of 'standard' vans being OK is incorrect, there are still panelvans coming out of the factory that judder. As I've always stated, never had a problem with judder on tarmac even on early vans, but its when they get on grass that the problems start. If you feel it's a problem you must now take it up with dealer to get it fixed, even if they haven't got a fix and will proboly just pass you on to Peugeot. I don't think that Andy S. was reversing on grass when his van juddered and then 'Ate' the gearbox. I find it very depressing that they still have not conclusively fixed this fault yet, and even new vans are still not 'right'. Why are we still buying them ??? why are the converters still using them ?? It all seems a bit 'Hobsons choice' to me. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 The simple answer, if you want to totally avoid this problem, is do NOT buy a motorhome on them! We changed our van recently and purposely got one which was NOT on a Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot. Yes, it limited our choices but we found exactly what we wanted but with a slightly better layout on the Ford base as opposed to the same manufacturer's layout on a Fiat (which was also more expensive). If we hadn't found this we would have stayed with what we had until we found a MH we wanted. You can talk about it until the cows come home but there is simply no way to GUARANTEE that the van you are buying hasn't got a problem until you get to use it in the situation which is likely to cause the problem (eg reversing up a 1:4 or greater slope etc). I'm not being flippant as I really sincerely wish there wasn't a problem with them, so that everyone could use and enjoy their vans as intended, but wishing won't make it go away unfortunately. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 any one got any thing to say . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Looks like they are all fixed, 'some hope'Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 We were at a very large dealership the other day. As current fiat based owners on a third gearbox we are naturally looking at a Transit. If only Honda made motorhomes :'( Anyway we were told they have sorted all the gearbox problems and a point was made that Hymer would not put a 80k fiat based vehicle on the market if it were not the case! We smiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 The Fiat reversing judder problem problem first came to light in 2007, since when the whole of the Hymer group has continued building vans of all types and sizes on Fiats. So, why stop now? One day, maybe, the motorhome industry as a whole will stop treating the buying public as complete idiots. Question is, will that be within my lifetime? Answers on the back of a postage stamp, please! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 "anyone got anything to say?" Perhaps the owners of the "modified gearbox at birth"vans are keeping quiet and their fingers crossed whilst they test out the limitations if any of their purchase for fear that if they say all is well some major breakdown will occur. I am sure posts will come as soon as they feel there is cause to complain. For what it is worth we have now done 900 miles in our 2.3 litre 6 speed Maxi long wheel base Fiat panel van conversion and so far no reversing problems. What we have noticed is that first gear feels a lot lower than that in our previous 2.8 litre 3.3 ton van. Is this because it is a maxi and designed for a heavier load? I thought the Maxi 16 inch wheels offset the lower drive ratio? Or is lowering the final drive ratio part of the overall modification? Net result is that the reverse ratio does not in my view feel abnormally high. Fiat advised in the past to use at least 1300 Rpm when reversing but many posted that this was dangerously high. This is not our experience which supports my feeling that that the final drive has been lowered. I shall be interested in any views particularly from owners of "recently born"vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I had my " fix " done 4 weeks ago 700 miles later in France the gearbox dropped its oil through bad workmanship at Fiat Dealer see my other post " no more motorhoming " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I wonder when the next model is due out, hopefully with a fix for the box problem, mind you there will no dought be other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 No consolation for those with judderers, and still an untried product, but the New Renault Master/Vauxhall/Opel Movano looks increasingly interesting. The van bodies are about the same sizes as the SEVELS, but there are rear wheel drive models as well, as with the slightly smaller Transits, so potentially good pickings for the panel van converters. Beyond that, however, both platform cab and chassis cab versions are being sold into the UK market, so should appeal to the coachbuilders. Robotised automatic gearboxes are available on, I think, all engines, and there is even a limited slip diff, and rumoured to be a full air rear suspension, option among all the usual stuff.So, all the silly clots now have to do is market it effectively. Why silly clots? Because I put in enquiries to both Renault commercial and Vauxhall, to see if I could have sight of some decent scaled drawings to evaluate its suitability for a panel van conversion idea I'm kicking around. Answer? No, we've never been asked for that before, that's an engineering matter, customer services have no contact with engineering, and no, they couldn't be bestirred to direct me to someone who does have the necessary contacts.On another thread there is much conversation about public sector jobsworths, compared to private sector go-getters. This is a recession, and in recessions motor manufacturers need sales, no? Apparently not! Don't hold your breath. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 You might, only just a might, have better luck contacting Renault Conversions 0845 0500546 or by emailling conversions@renault.co.uk. Renault approved convertors certainly have access to detailed drawings but whether they will supply to individuals I do not know. Seems crazy if they do not as so many customers need detailed dimensions for a a number of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Brian Kirby - 2010-06-18 11:55 PM Because I put in enquiries to both Renault commercial and Vauxhall, to see if I could have sight of some decent scaled drawings to evaluate its suitability for a panel van conversion idea I'm kicking around. p>Intersting...will this be a home build? or will you sub out the work. I want to downsize and may be interested :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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