rupert123 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Dawki afraid they are, just depends what the problem is. I can remember several problems with Mercedes and BMW that were denied. You will probably know the very well publicised one of the 'A' class Merc. when it first came out. Merc. denied it until a journalist turned one over in what became known as the elk test. BMW had a much more recent one with wheels breaking up, they are still to an extent denying it. Toyota had problems recently with brakes and steering, denied it until some Americans decided to sue. I can quote you loads but their have also been lots of cases of car recalls, including ones by Fiat that were done with no prompting. Why are some denied and some not, no idea, they just are. If you or anyone else thinks Mercedes, Renault, Ford etc are paragons of virtue you are very naive. It just so happens this is a M/H forum and one of its members, Andy, decided to take a stand, rightly so, but it has masked other makes with their own problems. I have seen recently on here suggestion's people look at the new Renault, how daft is that, anyone with an ounce of sense will keep clear, at least for a year. Is it right, of course not, but car/van makers are a cynical lot in a very competitive business, none go out of their way to mess up but they do. If you have one of these then you will feel pretty hard done by but everyone has the chance to do something about it, although few seem to. I have an X250 which has now done 23,000 miles with not a hint of trouble, would i buy another, certainly I would. Would I try it in reverse before parting with cash, dead right I would, but it certainly would not put me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 neil malcolmson - 2010-08-20 5:07 PM rupert123 - 2010-08-20 12:50 PM Melvin - 2010-08-19 6:46 PM Rolandrat, I am one of the many poor soles with a duff gearbox, despite the bodged atempts at a repair. So no, even though I like the Autotrails, I am not in the market for another Fiat. Melvin curious about your bodged attempt at repair bit, how was it bodged and if it was why have you not taken it back to repairer. The two people I know who had the job done are perfectly happy with it, indeed most posts about it on here and other forums people are happy. I accept Fiat did not handle this very well but what is new there, all motor manufacturers do the same thing. What has to be acknowledged is that if you want a new M/H and rule out Fiat you choice is very limited. Fiat remains the choice because it is simply the best base vehicle and M/H makers recognised that and continue to do so despite the problem with a few. Am also mystified about your inability to reverse even with the the modification done, your van must be very heavy indeed. How can something that has so may faults be simply the best. I think the words you needed to use are simply the cheapest. Really, perhaps you can enlighten me with some price comparisons or is this just bad guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil malcolmson Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Fiat chassis cab £20025 Ford Chassis cab £21045 merc Chassis cab £23495 all from official web sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 To be honest, the only problem to date (my van has only done 4000 miles) is the reversing problem, I really like the van. However, in October 2009 when moving house we hired a new X250 boxed van, we could not stop laughing, the empty van juddered like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Guys, A little perspective please, before this gets personal.... The comment that the Fiat is the cheapest is not quite right when considering the consumer, but it is most certainly very cheaply provided to the converters and that constitutes a compelling reason to build everything on them. The other point about the 3.0 litre being a completely different animal is absolutely true. I personally think that they are wonderful with either comfort matic or manual, except for the fact that one of mine had a failed differential before it was 2 years old and with only 30,000 miles on it. Alarm bells are definitely ringing at Eurotruck! The subsequent repair has not been satisfactory because it whines in 5th and 6th gear and it has gone back to the dealer. Apart from this, there are camper vans out there with judder problems that are well documented and Fiat has done diddly squat to resolve them. That is a sorry state of affairs and should cause ANY prospective owner to question whether Fiat are honourable enough to do business with. I have my doubts but for us Fiat Ducato vans still represent the best in the marketplace (all others have some problem or other that just rules them out) so we will be staying with Fiat for the near future and are ordering vans now for delivery early next year so that we avoid the Euro 5 engines that are being introduced in April 2011. I definitely do not wish to be one of the first to own those! The potential increase in resale values of the later engines is totally eroded by the risk of being treated as unpaid test drivers for new technology, and the inevitable complaints about the customary worsening of fuel economy. This does not add up to the smug feeling of environmental consciousness that you should feel when you do the right thing, or at least what the eurocretins have decided is best for us all. The emphasis should always have been REDUCE FUEL CONSUMPTION! Everything else is irrelevant since exhaust gasses are reduced when you use less fuel. How can it be that we have to reduce certain gasses at the expense of using more fuel? Idiots. Rant over. Have a nice weekend. Nick PS. Before you ask, there are no specific details or specifications yet, just the start date. I expect a 2.3 and 2 3.0 versions to be on offer but the future of the 2.2 which is a PSA/Ford joint venture looks uncertain because it cannot acheive Euro 5 without additives. PPS While I was writing this there have been other postings, one includes prices; Mercedes will give about 20% discount to converters, Ford about 30% and Fiat give a whopping 45% to their european converters. Does that make it clearer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Well put Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Someone mentioned earlier that they might consider a Renault base vehicle. In 2007 I was thinking of buying a SWB van as I have a number of dogs and it was to be sightly converted, something like the American Day van. I asked the users of different types of van and was put off the idea because there were problems on all of the new ones at that time. Renault vans had gearbox problems as well as ECU trouble. Ford were recalling their vans (I forget the reason now), Vauxhall vans could not take a hammering. Ironically, it was only the Fiat vans that seemed the most trouble free. I have said before on here that I never ever buy a vehicle until it has a proven track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Rupert, how can you state that FIAT is the best base vehicle when there are so many unhappy owners and STILL the complaints keep arising? What you mean is for its cost its the best, but it can never be THE best, that's pushing things too far. Remember every one the aim of FIAT is to dominate the market and a few blips is nothing to them, they are backed by certain body's in the USA and they 'aint gonna give way for no one! For a given cost its difficult to avoid FIAT. Unfortunately a large number of M/H owners are not engineering minded and believe that pretty things are best. ----------------- Derek, by drilling a hole at the TOP of an enclosed light holder should allow evaporated moisture to escape, provided of course its not directly lined up to the rain. I've worked as a contractor to Hella at Banbury but do not have any knowledge of the lighting assemblies you mention. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Nick Using more fuel to achieve a certain gas reduction is so true. To me its like Tesco and others advertising “Save the poor planet” by reducing plastic bag use when they then bring on stream thousands of new bag samples which have to use additional fuel to be manufactured and also have a plastic mix interwoven in the fabric threads. ---------- 747. Well buy a Merc then. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Derek Uzzell - 2010-08-20 8:38 AM ...............or the affected light could be removed, a hole drilled in it, the water shaken out, the light warmed up to dry its interior and then the hole resealed to stop rainwater blasting in. I did the latter, but it's not a satisfactory cure. Hmmmmm! :-) I had a feeling your original comment was uncharacteristically passive, and that you would have attacked the offending items in some way! Oddly, I think our front and rear HL, and amber side, markers are LED units. The large combined rear/brake/indicator/reversing lights seem to have sufficient internal volume not to mist up, let alone fill up. Motorhomes are wonderful vehicles, aren't they? They make you realise how far the 'umble motorcar has progressed since the days of headlights that filled with water! Ah well. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 neil malcolmson - 2010-08-20 5:52 PM Fiat chassis cab £20025 Ford Chassis cab £21045 merc Chassis cab £23495 all from official web sites Sorry Neil but this means nothing. The base used for M/H is differant from the normal chasis cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well as the confusion over 'juddering' sevel vans has reared it's ugly head again, I would direct those new to this problem to read page 1 of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Brian Kirby - 2010-08-20 10:19 PM ....Oddly, I think our front and rear HL, and amber side, markers are LED units. ... Suggest you take one off and check. I'm near certain that your Van's side marker-lights are identical to my T-600's and I'm pretty sure the HL ones are also the same. And all of those lights on my Hobby definitely have old-tech bulbs inside. I've now treated the inner surface of the rear lenses with Rain-X to encourage any condensation to slither off and dribble out of the lower drain-hole. This seems to have improved matters, though I don't think it will prove to be a miracle cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman1201 Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Hi all i have 2008 autotrail apache700 on 2.3 fiat its has had the A & B mods done but seems to have whining noise in 4th 5th & 6th gears has anyone had the same thanks Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 That sounds like it was not re-assembled properly. We had one do just that after a diff repair. Take it back to where it was done. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This thread seems to have gone very quite of late. Does this mean that Fiat have cured the problems on their latest production. I certainly hope so as we have a new motorhome due in March. Not I may add one that is over the 3,500Kg mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Colin Leake - 2010-11-19 6:58 PM This thread seems to have gone very quite of late. Does this mean that Fiat have cured the problems on their latest production. I certainly hope so as we have a new motorhome due in March. Not I may add one that is over the 3,500Kg mark. OR Maybe Like me got shot of the dreadful Fiat, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Colin,in this months MMM two new sevel motorhomes are reviewed,one had no judder the other one did. It seems that not all newly registerd sevels have had the mods done.Maybe there's old stock still out there. Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 fireman1201 - 2010-09-21 8:26 AM Hi all i have 2008 autotrail apache700 on 2.3 fiat its has had the A & B mods done but seems to have whining noise in 4th 5th & 6th gears has anyone had the same thanks Adrian I had mine done by Platts Stoke-on-Trent in 2009 3000 miles ago, no whinning or problems at all, except reverse is still too high for 2.3 Maxi chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 brendan robbins - 2010-11-05 12:12 PM Hello I took delivery of 508cl hymer on 2.3 130 chassis,in June this year,chassis is 2008. discovered dreaded reversing problem a few weeks later.anyway.....the usual rigmaroll ....the van is booked in for the 'modifacations'. basicaly would appreciate any feedback on how these modifications have turned out. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scramblers Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 rupert123 - 2010-08-20 12:50 PM Melvin curious about your bodged attempt at repair bit, how was it bodged and if it was why have you not taken it back to repairer. The two people I know who had the job done are perfectly happy with it, indeed most posts about it on here and other forums people are happy. I accept Fiat did not handle this very well but what is new there, all motor manufacturers do the same thing. What has to be acknowledged is that if you want a new M/H and rule out Fiat you choice is very limited. Fiat remains the choice because it is simply the best base vehicle and M/H makers recognised that and continue to do so despite the problem with a few. Am also mystified about your inability to reverse even with the the modification done, your van must be very heavy indeed. My first motorhome was a second hand Fiat based Burstner and we ran it for 7 years without problem. The 2.0 jtd engine was a little underpowered for the 3.5t vehicle but that was Burstner's fault for using that engine and I overcame the problem by having it 'chipped'. This year we decided to change the vehicle for something a little more modern but still second hand. Late 2007 or 2008 suited our pocket. Unfortunately this was the time when Fiat had the problems and seemed to spend more time denying the issue rather than fixing it. This flavoured our preference when looking at the range of motorhomes so much so my wife refused to counternance any Fiat based vehicle. She was also sceptical of any vehicle from the SEVEL factory as they may use a Fiat engine and gearbox even though they may not be badged as Fiat. After many months and several motorhome shows we found a motorhome that ticked all our boxes, a Transit based Burstner. How many sales Fiat based vehicles have lost in total is hard to work out but it is at least one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 In the event that Fiat do check this thread, I got rid of my 2008 bought brand new,a Burstner Aviano i684 / Fiat 2.3, fed up with all the Fiat Problems and the length of time it took them to solve it, I would NEVER buy anything from Sevel again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 This thread isn't finished yet folks, as this month's MMM will prove. I won't labour the point, as I have already described it on another, recent thread (c.f. 'Mike & Jane Jago's retirement'), just refer you to P.11 & 12 -- the letters section, where a Mr. Alborghetti describes his £47,000 Fiat - based coach built motor home -- which he was unable to reverse into his drive, so he cut his losses and, luckily for him, like |Corky (above) was able to trade it in for a Mercedes- based motor home, with which he is well pleased. I wonder how the next poor unlucky purchaser has fared with it? there must be uncountable numbers of similar 'judderers' out there on dealer's forecourts! The reviews/tests of both new (Auto-Sleepers Cotswold EB) and second-hand 'vans (see Di. Johnson's mention of the problem r.e second-hand Fiats) Show that this issue will (and should) 'run & run'! Happy motor homing for the New Year/season folks! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi, Just to keep this paticular 'Pot Boiling' I had the rare oppurtunity to be able to buy a new motorhome at the end of last year, after much looking and agonising (because of this fault on Sevel vehicles and the contempt shown by Fiat to their customers) I ended up buying a second hand one instead, as any choice NOT on a Sevel were very limited (it's a bit better now ! not much, but better). What I got was a Sevel !! BUT the last of the 'older' model which I reasoned was tried and test and at the end of the developement cycle. I hope it will be OK ? (we never know for sure do we ?) so far I am happy (and It CAN reverse up my steep driveway, without drama.) Unlike an X250 Panel van based Van that I tested. Why o why did they 'Pratt around with an already 'sorted' gearbox ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 There is a guy on the Motorcaravaners website who owns a 3ltr tag axle Aorotrail who has just had a clutch replaced at 12000 miles, he says that he has experienced clutch judder in 1st and reverse gears. Clutches should last considerably longer you would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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