pain in spain - - - be very aware

[jo scott]

We've just returned from a very successful, albeit damp, cold and windy, 4 weeks in France, keeping our campsite average down to 9euro.

 

However we met two vans in Cacrcassonne with sorry tales.. .both sadly in Spain.

One couple were flagged down by green mercedes on the motorway, indicating a problem with a wheel. The car pulled up in front of them. Sadly both mr and Mrs got out to see the 'problem' during which time the car's passenger jumped in the front, grabbed her hand bag (tickets, passports money . the lot) Chappie B returned to the car, waved them goodbye . . . . leaving the couple to discover the loss after the car wa stoo far away to read the registration.

 

Second case even more tragic . . young couple, first van, first trip to europe with 3 children under 6 years (how brave was that!), nipped into a supermarket in Seville and ten minutes later found the lock forced on their Carioca 654 and the loss of laptop, Nintendos' camera, ipod, cameras etc etc. Plus the door panel badly damaged.

 

They have now been taught the seat belt through the door handles trick, but it does seem that we need to beparticularly vigilant of security in spain on motorways and in cities. Shame.

[w1ntersun]

Hi,

 

Just had 3 months in Spain and had no problems.

 

Firstly nobody in their right mind should leave valubles in the front of the van for every body to see. I never leave passports, credit cards etc exposed. I put them in the safe until needed. I only have loose cash in my pocket and a few notes for deisel etc. This flagging down thing is so well documented you would think everyone should be aware by now.

 

Always leave one person in the van when going to a supermarket. Common sense. Again common knowledge to experienced campers.

 

We need to be vigilant every where not just Spain. Even in the UK you are at risk.

 

Richard

[MandyAndy]

Well it jolly well serves them right then doesn't it Richard.

 

I think a little bit of sympathy may have been a bit kinder.

 

Not everyone goes on forums like this and learns of others experiences.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who has belongings taken from anywhere, and when you are away to enjoy yourselves the hit seems even harder I bet.

 

Mandy

[Patricia]

w1ntersun - 2010-04-19 2:59 PM

 

This flagging down thing is so well documented you would think everyone should be aware by now.

 

Always leave one person in the van when going to a supermarket. Common sense. Again common knowledge to experienced campers.

 

We need to be vigilant every where not just Spain. Even in the UK you are at risk.

 

Richard

 

Unfortunately if you are a lone traveller you do not have the benefit of a guard for the m/home although I rarely leave it now, certainly not on service areas unless to pay. I do leave the dog visible though. Even in England I use my own facilities and only excercise the dog in view of the vehicle. However, realistically I would be no match for would-be thieves etc. With regards to being stopped by these ****** camping has always been a very trusting way of life and it is very difficult to think the worst of people. We used to leave all sorts of valuable things in the tent, then later by the caravan so I am always afraid that I will be taken in at some point, especially if they are in uniform as they so often are.

[bob b]

Its not really a case of leaving valuables on show. These thieves know that we all carry much the same sort of stuff. They'll break in and just rifle the lockers.

I have stated here before on another thread, When I stop at services, hypermarkets, etc, I walk in and then come out a couple of minutes later to check the motorhome.

The gits know that they haven't a lot of time and will work quickly to break in as soon as you've entered the building. 

[jo scott]

Richard: I did not suggest that every visitor should expect to be targetted and think your response rather smug, and a little unkind.

And you are being very presumptituous when you say 'never leave rthinsg in view'. Whose to say they did?

 

There are a lot of newbies around lately . . . who may have only just stumbled upon forums.

Of course there is risk everywhere but there are degrees of risk and it doesn't hurt to advise people.

 

The suggestion of leaving one person in the van sounds great for a couple . .. but when 3 chidren under 6 want to get out and stretch their legs, its a brave parent who takes them into a supermarket single handed . . and tries to shop!

 

A little compassion goes a long way. . . . .Jo

 

[olley]

In 08 we were driving back from south of France on the dual carriageway when I was flagged down by unmarked van, never even thought about it, just pulled in, turned out they were cops, and I had a puncture in the trailer tyre.

 

Even after all the advice on here and other forums about not stopping, I just did. Its easy on here to say do this and that, but on holiday, driving along relaxed, how many others would have done the same?

 

So it is possible to be flagged down by genuine cops in unmarked vehicles, if they see a problem with your vehicle.

 

Olley

[Shell181]

Those poor people, its so sad that things like this can happen, me and hubby are looking to buy a MH at the moment and I must admit before reading this thread one of us staying in the van while a visit to the supermarket would never even enter my mind, we would hide any valuables and not leave them on show but we would both automatically go in, but now after reading this I think I would be too worried and would stay in the MH.

 

We are campers at the moment and lock any valuables in the car when leaving the tent (although hubby doesn't always but I am not as trusting as he is). Its such a shame that there is always someone who spoils everybodys fun and wants to profit of other peoples hard earned goods.

 

If only we lived in a perfect world where everyone respected and cared about each other.........

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

The main point, surely, is that none of us knows the exact circumstances of either case.  With all due respect to Jo, they are second hand accounts, and may or may not have been sanitised, or dramatised, by the originators.  We don't know where the incidents were, beyond one being in Seville.  It is impossible to know whether the victims inadvertently contributed to their own misfortunes, or not, so IMO it seems a little pointless taking sides one way or the other.

Theft, as they say, happens.  It happens all over the world, under all kinds of circumstances.  A motorhome is an indication that the occupants are on holiday, so will have valuable documents, possessions, and money, with them.  A foreign motorhome indicates probably more value will be in the van, and that the occupants will be likely to have difficulty in communicating their circumstances.  More time to get away before the alarm is raised.  Apparently elderly occupants indicates less risk of being challenged.

Olley is right, you can't always be confident someone trying to attract your attention has mischief in mind.  You have to make judgements.  You have to make judgements when, and if, you stop, even at supermarkets.  If it "feels" wrong, carry on.  Most crime is in, and around, cities, because that is where most people live.  It therefore makes sense to avoid parking in cities, whether at supermarkets or otherwise.  It also makes sense when parking at supermarkets not to park too far from the entrance, consistent with not becoming a nuisance with a larger vehicle.  Better still, if visiting a city, is stock up before arriving, or leave the van on a site and walk, cycle, or catch a bus, to the shops.  When arriving at a supermarket car park, look around, and after stopping take a moment to see whether anyone shows interest in the van.  It sometimes pays to make the shopping stop co-incide with a meal stop so, if in doubt, you can have your meal before shopping and see if someone hangs around.  Besides, there are supermarkets all over Europe, so one is not usually obliged to use any one in particular.

We have ambled around France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Hungary, Austria, Germany, the Czech Republic, and Croatia.  We have therefore stopped, and shopped, in a lot of supermarkets.  I can honestly say that in all those miles, and months, I have only felt uneasy on a handful of occasions, either on the road, or in supermarket car parks.  To my recollection, I have only met one person whose van was broken into, and he was a German in a hired German van at a site in Siena.  He had parked in the street in Italy, I've forgotten in which city, while he visited a museum, and when he came out the habitation door had been forced, the van ransacked, and the interior extensively damaged.

So, it can happen, but it is relatively unusual, and a bit of defencive thinking will do much to reduce the risks.  Fitting good quality, visible, vehicle locks, especially on the habitation door, is a good investment.  On older base vehicles, without immobilisers and deadlocks, supplementing the cab door locks and adding at least an immobiliser, makes sense.  IMO, strapping the driver's and passenger's doors together via the armrests is rather a waste of time.  The way in is via the window, and once that is broken cutting the strap will take seconds.  If chain, or cable is used, the door is easily forced once the lock is released, because the armrests aren't that solidly attached.  If they want in, and that have the time and the brass neck, they'll get in!  I'm still unconvinced by alarms, as most folk seem to regard them as a nuisance, and just ignore them when they go off.  If you make your van look like a mobile offshoot of Fort Knox, again my opinion, you just seem to advertise you think the contents so valuable they need defending!  Just try to avoid visible bling, and generally try to make it difficult to see in.

In the final analysis, of course, it is luck whether you become a victim, but I don't think we should get paranoid about the risk.  Most of Europe, with a few exceptional pockets, remains, IMO, more honest and law abiding than, sadly, most of England.  Common sense is the best avoidance tactic, and good insurance the only sensible remedy if the worst happens. 

[Losos]

w1ntersun - 2010-04-19 3:59 PM Always leave one person in the van when going to a supermarket. Common sense.

And what's the 'common sense' approved policy if you are traveling alone ??? as I will be in the near future. There will occassions when we are two but more when I am solo.

[w1ntersun]

WE are getting off topic here. The Original poster was infering that SPAIN was not a safe country. It is as safe as any in Europe.

 

As a single traveller I would stock up before I go for on route travelling and stay in campsites near supermarkets.

 

I apologise if some felt I was unsypathetic but come on this is not a safe world and there is always some to rip you off, steal from you etc. How many of you use out side gas bottles ( more caravaners than m/h users ) and chain them to the van. Some one mentoned newbies. They may be newbies to camping but not to life.

 

As Brian said I have stayed at aires in towns in France and felt totally safe and left the van unattended. There were other vans near though to keep an eye on us.

 

Again with the flagging down situation. Get out of the van and lock the door. Why did both get out! when I fill up with desiel my wife keeps an eye on the van for the so called tyre stabbers. ( another scam )

 

Jo sorry if I upset you with my comments but it does lead to a lively debate as most threads on this forum are fairly mundane.

 

Richard

 

[olley]

This is the puncture the cops pulled me up for. (lol) Never did find the mudguard.

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d173/olleybeak/RV/trailer%20damage/DSCN7361-1.jpg

 

Olley

[Rayjsj]

Olley,

You would an awfully big can of 'Goo' to fix that !! Ray

[jo scott]

I think somone have you haved missed the point . . . I too travel with the assumption that most people you encounter will be kind, helpful and do you no harm.

:-D

 

However . . . the phrase I used was 'vigilant' not paranoid and I selected Spain, because the young family and the other couple were the only people we met who had experienced difficulties.

 

It doesnt hurt to remind ourselves from time to time as we are all carrying increasing amounts of tecchie gear.

 

By all means do all the sensible things that Brian is so good at summarising . . . worth seeing if we have adequate content cover too.

 

We dont have expensive audio kit, tv or video but usually have a laptop, iPod and speakers and at least 2 cameras.

 

Jo

 

 

[Patricia]

Actually more importantly the thieves are really after your passport - the going rate last year was about £3000 - much better and easier profit than all the other things put together. Credit cards only have a brief window of opportunity and only a limited amount can be withdrawn before they are stopped.

 

The first-hand accounts of robberies that I have come across (and there have been quite a few) have actually all been in Spain unfortunately, some on the motorway areas (motorhome breakins or in the restaurants) or when parked on campsites (sitting the other side of the van from the entrance door) or in cities (Barcelona seems to be a favourite). The A9 autoroute is also a favourite. I think it all depends on the time of year too - all these incidents have happened in high summer.