Diesel Particulate issues , Additives etc

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi , In another thread, I mentioned the cost of diesel fuel additives to keep emissions down, as my 406 estate flagged up Diesel Fuell Additive Low alarm and the overall bill was £194.37 inc VAT

 

Breaking this down, The additivecalled EOLYS DPX 42 PSA was charged at £32.51 per litre ( 2 litres required) , 10 Litres of Diesel £10.40, Labour charges ( 2 Hours quoted, actual time 4 1/2 hours) £90, adding up to 165.42, plus dreaded VAT resulting in final bill 194.37.

 

I am told that to carry out the work involved dropping fuel tank to access the additive tank,( a small 2 litre capacity tank fixed to the fuel tank, reassembling same, the resetting the alarm system using their computer system. It apparently is not possible to topup the additive tank as owner, only by Peugeot themselves

 

The same or similar procedures have to be carried out on Boxer based motorhomes, so they tell me, at around 60000 miles, doubtless at similar rip off prices.. Why does it (officially) take 2 hours to add 2 litres of expensive liquid gold . Another bad design layout. Surely a small access hole in floor under rear seat should have been fitted.!!

 

tonyg3nwl

 

[fred22]

Is this the same stuff you can buy from Halfords and put into a full tank of diesel every so often?? You can get a lot of bottles for nearly £200, you don't have to use it every time you fill up, and a bottle will treat 4 tank fulls.. Have I missed something?

[Randonneur]

Has anyone tried these?

 

http://www.myffi.biz/c-26-mpg-caps.aspx

[fred22]

I have used these additives in the fuel in all the diesels I have owned (7) and they have all passed the emission test at MOT time.

Thinking about, it I suppose I added the additive to a full tank of fuel about for times a year. I think the last one I used was made by Redex.

If the vehicles would have passed without it, who can say?

[Brian Kirby]

No, chaps, no!  RTFP!  (Read the f**king post!)  This is NOT the stuff you stick in your tank.  :-)

[jhorsf]

Brian Kirby - 2010-05-01 7:20 PM

 

No, chaps, no!  RTFP!  (Read the f**king post!)  This is NOT the stuff you stick in your tank.  :-)

 

 

 

I do not think that was called for Brian

[Brambles]

Some of you might find this link useful or interesting.

http://www.rhodia.com/en/markets_and_products/leading_brands/silcea_eolys.tcm

[Brambles]

no no no no Brian, RTFP stands for Regenerate The Filter Please.

[Keff]

Ok I am lost what additives and where do they go I have a 2.8jtd its done 72000 miles on a 03 reg passes its MOT first time I have looked up everywhere and no where can I find this has to be added and the is no warning light I can find I know lorries have to use add blue to keep down exhaust particles I drive a Isuzu 7.5 ton truck that uses a DPD system to do the same thing but why does my 2.8jtd need any thing apart from diesel it runs fine now

[Brambles]

Keff - 2010-05-02 10:29 AM

 

Ok I am lost what additives and where do they go I have a 2.8jtd its done 72000 miles on a 03 reg passes its MOT first time I have looked up everywhere and no where can I find this has to be added and the is no warning light I can find I know lorries have to use add blue to keep down exhaust particles I drive a Isuzu 7.5 ton truck that uses a DPD system to do the same thing but why does my 2.8jtd need any thing apart from diesel it runs fine now

 

You do not have a diesel particulate filter. Vehicles equiped with filters have different methods for regenerating and cleaning them by burning off the soot or blowing it out of the filter.

[Keff]

Just as well by the sounds of it. Was thinking of a new motor home soon but what with gearbox trouble and new exhaust systems, and all the different things these new ones have to go wrong guess I be keeping mine for a few more years

[fred22]

Hi Brambles, thanks for the link.

Never heard of this before, you learn something everyday

[broc]

DPFs are a nightmare on many new cars unless you spend all your time on the motorways. Most new 'eco' diesel cars seem to have them & the filter requires regeneration every 300-500km. Some use expensive additives, others are 'self-regenerating'. Self regeneration will work as long as the exhaust temperature gets hot enough for long enough, typically taking around 20 mins of continuous driving (not urban stop-start driving, or in heavy traffic).

 

If you drive light-footed or in town then the regeneration will fail & then you are in for an expensive (£200) visit to a dealers who will regenerate the filter & carry out an oil & filter change. I have just got rid of a 1-year old Nissan X-Trail because of the DPF & I had a 15 mile each way daily commute including 10 miles dual carriageway. Twice during the winter I was late for work because I was forced to drive up & down the dual cariageway outside work for 20 mins to clear the filter. It makes a mockery of so called fuel saving burning off diesel to clear the filter.

 

No more diesel cars for me; fortunately my MK7 Transit motorhome doesn't have a DPF :)

[Rayjsj]

Well I must say this is a new one on me, A filter that can ONLY be regenerated by a dealer, who also has to plug in a computer to clear the fault ?? a licence to print money methinks !!

As a lifetime DIY car servicer I wouldn't purchase a vehicle that had 'Servicable parts' that I couldn't purchase to service myself.

(after warranty expiry of course). This 'container' for the additive must be mentioned in the workshop manual surely ? and a 'generic' filter re-generator Fluid available ?

The World is getting madder and madder.

Ray

[broc]

Rayjsj - 2010-05-03 8:31 PM

 

A filter that can ONLY be regenerated by a dealer, who also has to plug in a computer to clear the fault ??

 

Just to clarify, a dealer visit is required only if self-regeneration fails. On the Nissan the ECU would try a number of times (without informing the driver) to regenerate, if these all fail eventually it turns on a warning light & at that point you have to keep on driving until the light goes out! Ignore the warning at your peril, the ECU goes into limp home mode & you then have to visit the dealer who will regenerate the filter. As the process contaminates the engine oil it needs a filter & oil change (with expensive fully synthetic oil).

 

It is a widespread problem with many manufacturers diesels powered cars. If the filter cannot be regenerated a new one can cost £1000+

 

 

[rolandrat]

I have heard of this additive being needed for 407's but not for 406's. My old W reg with 43000 on the clock is a common rail engined model that gets serviced at the main agents and they've never mentioned it to me before. All the latest HGV's fitted with euro V's have two tanks fitted, one for fuel and one for the additive, if you run out the engine management system reduces the power output. I have also got the latest Passat with a euro V engine so I suppose the dealer will let me know when or if it will need some sort of additive at some time or other. More expense.

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

I have checked and confirmed that the Peugeot Boxer does not need any additives, and has no tank for such an additive. When the Euro 5 configuration is announced, it may indeed include such a thing but it does not yet.

 

There are certain manufacturers who have frankly run out of ideas for improving emissions without resorting to treating the exhaust gasses after they leave the engine. It is a cold hard fact that almost all engines now use a high degree of exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) which has the unavoidable adverse effect of producing a great deal of heat which is difficult to get rid of. (this is why in 2005 to 2007 all of the van chassis out there were modified to include huge grilles to improve the cooling of the incoming Euro 4 engines). When you have gone as far as you can or dare with EGR you have to treat the gasses with Particulate filters which are just a pain in the behind or with an additive (Urea) which is sprayed into the catalyst.

 

My advice would be to head for the manufacturers that are not using additives. They are pushing the boundaries of technology in other directions that improve the combustion process, which makes the engine more efficient and thus does not need the inelegant methods of cleaning things up at the final stage.

 

In any case; we are paying too much for fuel. We need to use less fuel. Euro2, then 3, 4, and 5 have all brought with them increases in fuel consumption while emitting less of certain target gasses. the Euro standards are ill conceived nonsense that has pushed the engineers in the wrong direction. Using less fuel should have been the stimulus that would have reduced pollution accordingly. A couple of manufacturers have finally grasped this and we should rejoice.

 

While Fiat don't seem to be able to get gearboxes right; they are right up there in the forefront of engine design. Have a look at 'Multi-Air' on You tube to learn more. It will soon be incorporated into Diesel engines for cars, vans and trucks with even more significant advances in efficiency anticipated.

 

The policy makers in Europe are just as revenue motivated as the UK government who while charging you ever more in Road Tax have still not increased the rates for certain vehicles and it is shocking. Because a 9 seat mini bus is classed as a car, it is taxed on CO2 emissions and the disc will cost you £750. If it was a 16 seater or was a 10 year old 7.5T truck it would cost just £165. I run a lot of trucks and enjoy my good fortune but I know it is wrong. Not so relevant, but it gets my goat, so I thought I would mention it!

 

Dismount soap-box.

 

Nick

 

[Brian Kirby]

Nick for PM, say I!  :-D

[euroserv]

Brian,

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I would have less time to correspond with the good folk of the forum. Or more....

 

Nick

[Brambles]

Nick - will you settle for Transport Minister then? We will let you claim your garage overhead costs as a business expense as is needed for feedback of the transport industry.

[euroserv]

That is a good offer. Can I claim a camper van as a second home? If so can anyone point me in the direction of suitable sites in Westminster or will I have to go 'wild'? Said camper would have to be a hybrid because no way am I paying congestion charges! Will start work on that one now.

 

Nick

[flicka]

euroserv - 2010-05-04 1:06 PM

 

That is a good offer. Can I claim a camper van as a second home? If so can anyone point me in the direction of suitable sites in Westminster or will I have to go 'wild'? Said camper would have to be a hybrid because no way am I paying congestion charges! Will start work on that one now.

 

Nick

If am MP, Nick

Surely you would claim it back on expenses >:-) >:-(

[jhorsf]

Nick would be no good as an MP he is to honest and tells it like he sees it,he would never fit in :D

[rolandrat]

Just as a matter of interest the name of the additive that is put in the separate tank fo the euro V commercial vehicle engines is called "Addblue". It is supposed to be sprayed into the exhaust manifold where the catalytic converter is housed.

[Brambles]

Adblue is not the same stuff that is used to regenerate filters, it is sprayed into the exhaust to reduce emmision levels.