Truma Water Heating.....Help please

[peter21]

Hi all

 

We have a trumatic water heater in our Rapido 7090F+. It is not clear from the documentation whether it is a C6002, C4002 or a Combi, but it is supposed to heat the water from either hookup or gas.

 

The problem is that it won't heat from gas, but heats up fine from 240 volts when hooked up.

 

Now the gas will operate the blown hot air space heating function, but not the water heating, so I wonder if it is a simple problem...maybe a cut out or fuse somewhere? We are a long way from a Truma service dept. so any advice would be much appreciated.

 

thanks in advance

 

Peter

 

[Brian Kirby]

As it has electric water heating only, it will be a C6002EL, or a C4002EL.  They are both "Combi" heaters.  The gas and electric water heating systems are quite separate, so there is no reason why one should not work while the other does.

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I think you may need to speak to the Truma UK technical dept as, with the space heating side working (which uses the same burner as the water heater) and the water heating side not, there are at least two possible culprits. 

However, first, how does the water heater fail?  When heating water, there should be an amber light visible on the selector switch until the selected temperature is reached.  If the heater fails to ignite, a red light will come on.  Are you seeing this red light?  Do you get the same result whichever water temperature is selected?

Second, you have three possible gas water heating options.  Space heating with 60^o water, 40^o water only and 60^o water only.  If you select space heating with 60^o water, does the space heating run normally?  If it does, what does it do when the van is up to temperature; a) switch off (green light only), b) continue running to heat water (green plus amber lights), or c) lock out with the red light?  If a) or c), I'd guess the circuit board has a fault.  If b) I'd guess the selector switch, or its wiring, has a fault.

If it will heat water normally when the space heating is engaged, but not at all when water heating alone is selected, there are two further possibilities.  With water heating alone selected, do any of the green, amber, or red, lights come on at the selector switch?  If these all remain off, I think either the switch has broken, or wiring has become disconnected or damaged.

If the green light comes on, followed by amber and after a pause the red, the gas is not igniting at the burner.  We know the igniter is working, and gas is getting to the burner, because the space heating runs so, in this case, I would suspect either a limit stat on water temperature has failed closed, and is preventing ignition, or the main circuit board has developed a fault.

To finally resolve the fault I think, as stated above, you will need to talk to Truma technical, but it will probably help your conversation with them if you have worked through the above options, noting the results at each stage.

Their address and phone no are: Truma UK Ltd, Park Lane, Dove Valley Park, South Derbyshire, DE65 5BG.  Tel: 01283 586050.  You don't say where you are, but several folk with heater problems have found it worthwhile taking their vans to Truma UK for repair, as they know the heater and its (relatively few) weaknesses better than anyone else, and have generally been thought to do a good job at a fair price.

Hope this helps.

[peter21]

Brian

 

Thank you very much for your reply. Found a model number...it is a C 6002 EH.

 

There is now no space heating or water with the gas, and all three lights (red, amber and green), are on....does this mean the gas is not lighting?

 

We live in Cumbria so Derbyshire is a bit of a trek and we will look for a service engineer nearby, unless anyone has any ideas for a fix. The fuses are pretty inaccessible and I guess there would be no lights if these had blown. The overheating cut out isn't the problem.

 

Everything works OK on hook up (and the motorhome 12v batteries are recent and healthy).

 

Thanks again for your considered reply.

 

Peter

[Robinhood]

Check your gas supply. On the same unit I can get those three lights on when there is no gas, and water heating is set at the highest temperature setting.

 

Bottle on? Auto-changeover set correctly? Gas tap for combi heater on?

 

In addition, turn everything off and start again. If the red light comes on after the others (and particularly after you can hear the gas supply solenoid on the boiler 'click' on - maybe a good 30 seconds after turning the unit on) then your gas supply is suspect.

 

HTH

 

[terryW]

I recently had a complete failure of my Combi (gas only version) and found Truma technical support very helpful over the phone.

 

I was prepared to travel to to their workshop but they couldn't fit me in for many weeks. In the end I found Sylmar Services www.sylma**ervices.co.uk/ at Market Drayton who holds a good range of spares. After attempting one repair that failed he negotiated a free replacement boiler for me despite, it being 7 months out of warranty.

 

Sorry but the system won't allow me to enter the full address, you need to replace (**) with (rs) to see his site.

 

May be a long drive but he was the only one I could find between Derby and Portsmouth who could sort me out in time for our trip to Italy. Good luck

[Guest Tracker]

If you have recently changed the gas bottle and it worked before there could be air in the gas pipe which will need to be purged through before it will fire up again.

 

There may be instructions for this in your handbook, but if not just keep trying to fire it up and eventually it should - if indeed that is the proplem?

[Mel B]

Have you removed the cover on the outside of the motorhome before trying to heat the water up on gas (assuming it is the type with a removable cover)? If not, it won't work as it has a fail safe device.

 

Other than that, my money would initially be it being a low gas supply or the gas not getting through for some reason.

[Brian Kirby]

peter21 - 2010-05-03 12:24 PM Brian Thank you very much for your reply. Found a model number...it is a C 6002 EH.

In which case, it will provide space heating on mains as well as water heating.

There is now no space heating or water with the gas, and all three lights (red, amber and green), are on....does this mean the gas is not lighting?

Yes, that is exactly what it means.  You have no gas at the heater, or the igniter cannot ignite the gas.

We live in Cumbria so Derbyshire is a bit of a trek and we will look for a service engineer nearby, unless anyone has any ideas for a fix. The fuses are pretty inaccessible and I guess there would be no lights if these had blown. The overheating cut out isn't the problem.

Sorry, can't help where you live!  Correct: if fuses had blown, you would have no lights.

Everything works OK on hook up (and the motorhome 12v batteries are recent and healthy). Thanks again for your considered reply. Peter

It will work on hook-up.  Hook-up is mains electricity, your problem is with gas.  Fortunately, there is no functional connection!

[tonyishuk]

If the gas heating works. I would have thought it would heat the water as the water jacket is around the hot air burner.

 

Our settings are top switch Gas (one flame) operating mode (flame/60C)

 

However if the red LED shows there is fault. There is a reset switch on the unit, but I think you have to get to it through the kitchen cupboard.

 

 

Rgds

 

OOPs should read all the thread.

 

Do you have gas at the cooker rings ?

 

It might be worth reseting / checking the secure motion gas taps

 

Make sure the gas cylinders are awitched on.

 

Slowly Press the green taps down on the brass fitting next to the cylinder top

 

Then SLOWLY press the green tap on the regulator and release SLOWLY,

 

The change over indicator on the regulator should show green, (Red is no supply / empty)

 

Rotate regulator front to other cylinder, if that is red too, you have two empty cylinders.

 

Rgds.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Secumotion has not previously been mentioned.  However, if all Rapidos are now coming with Secumotion pre-fitted, and if they all have auto-changeover valves, I would strongly suggest starting there, as Tony suggests.  If the heating/water heating has not been used for some time, and the gas is then turned on, the system sees a pressure drop at the regulator that it reads as a leak, and locks out.  So, as Tony says, try re-setting the regulator cut-off, and the high pressure cut-off valves at the cylinders.

Do you have handbooks for this van?  The procedure should be explained in the handbook, and it should be easier followed from that than from our witterings on hers.

[peter21]

Thanks to all who replied.....I contacted the local caravan dealer...yes they could fix it...but they were booked until July!! So that would have meant a few cold showers on our June trip round the Scottish coast.

 

Clearly there is a business opportunity for a truma specialist in Cumbria.

 

I went back to the unit, cycled through it a few times, as suggested...and it WORKS NOW!!! In retrospect it may have been air in the gas pipe to the truma unit (with all other gas pipes OK).....I put in a gaslow system before we went to France at the end of March and in retrospect we were hooked up each night when we were away, and I guess just didn't notice the absence of gas fired water heating until the last night, when we camped on a friends drive without hook up. The other gas appliances all worked fine, and so I never really considered a gas blockage or shortage as a cause.

 

The other factor that confused me was that i had understood that the 240 volt supply only supplied water heating. Reading the small print I now see that the hookup can provide a limited amount of blown hot air heating, and so a localised blockage in the gas pipe to the truma unit would only manifest itself when there was no 240 volt supply.

 

 

All the Best

 

Peter

 

 

[tonyishuk]

Just to add

 

I raised the question of fitting Gaslow to the M/home (Rapido 7090) and was advised that Truma recommended that their regulator should not be used. The reason being that autogas lpg is a lot dirtier than bottled gas.

 

The dirt will gum up the regulator, and the Gaslow regulator is manufactured to allowed to pass the dirt (solids / Liquid ??).

 

That said the dirt, will then pass through the system and end up at the jets which will need more maintance. Truma reckon every six months with ""average"" use.

 

Having to have the Truma Heater pulled apart to check the burners every six months is not my idea of fun.

 

Older appliances are not as efficient as new ones, so do not suffer as much.

 

Much the same with fridges I understand.

 

Just a passing thought !

 

Any comments from the floor ??

 

Rgds

 

[Silicongyro]

Tony

You asked for comments - well my experience is not as your advisors suggest to you. I am concerned that another LPG myth may start to grow so.....

 

I have an Italian motorhome fitted with (Italian) Cavagna gas regulator and auto changeover valve. I fitted a Gaslow system with two tanks in 2004 and have used LPG ever since, all year round. I have used LPG from the UK, France, Germany, and Italy so far - topping up both in Winter and Summer with their varying gas ratios when abroad. In all this time there has never been a gas problem with any of my gas appliances (Truma 6002, Dometic fridge freezer, Smev hob, smev oven). As it happens I have checked the jet/burner/flue in the fridge, the hob jets and the Smev oven jets on a precautionary basis as I conduct all maintenance that I am able to. No dirt/sooting was encountered.

So on my sample of one I would not agree that the contamination situation with LPG is as worrysome as your advisor indicates - and would continue to advise others to fit LPG tanks without concern for its makeup or cleanliness

 

[Big Momma]

I am very interested in the responses to this post as I have literally just collected my new Autotrail Comanche (Saturday). After all the paperwork and handover procedures were complete we came home and packed enough for a short weekend break at Salisbury C&CC site. More on the van in a later post but whilst away we obviously wanted to try everything out. The Comanche has a dual fuel heating system, 230v for water and space heating, Gas for water and space heating or a combination of both gas and 230v. All the other Gas and electrics are working fine but neither the 230v or gas water or space heating is working. The amber light comes on the 230v dial and the green light on the other control dial. An amber light comes on to show that the heating cycle is operating but then this turns to a red flashing light indicating that there is a fault on the system. I tried several times over the two days we were away but with no joy on either 230v or gas. I did the usual checks, ensured that the gas isolation switches were in the 'open' position and that the electric switch for the boiler was 'on' and of course the gas (but as the cooker was working fine this was more an idiots check rather than anything else). I even switched the fridge from 230v to gas, turned on all the lights to check they worked, the electric kettle worked as did the electronic cooker ignition so no major electrical or gas faults to other appliances.

 

I am no technical expert or even enthusiastic hobbyist but it appears to me that the issue is electrical rather than gas. Does the Truma boiler have a separate fuse somewhere as I suspect that if the heating element on 230v is not working and the ignitor is not firing up the gas boiler then it is an electrical fault and perhaps as simple as a blown fuse (not one on the main control panel though as this has been checked).

 

I am taking the van back to the dealers on Friday to have this and a few other minor issues sorted. However, always well worth having a few suggestions up my sleeve in case the dealership technician has a head scratching moment ;-)

[tonyishuk]

There is nothing that I can think of, apart from checking (as you have done) checking each mode of operation of isolation.

 

Rgds

[Mountain_Biker]

Just another tip to look at...on the Truma, there is a sliding flap (on mine i get at it from the outside locker) Under this, there is a Trip button. Try pushing this...

[Big Momma]

Truma Boiler now working on both Electric 230v and Gas (or both). The problem was the 'Data Cable'. Apparantly when Autotrail fitted the cable they went via the back of the fridge. There is a metal plate at the back of the fridge and the wire was pulling across it. The movement of the van caused the metal plate to 'saw' through the cable *-) New cable fitted and although running along same route it has been secured away from the metal plate (sounds like a good ida to me) :D Must just end this by saying that Chelston Motorhomes put 40 ltrs of diesel in to my van to compensate for the 208 mile round trip :->

[Brian Kirby]

So, that roughly reimburses you for the fuel - but leaves you working for free!  Small mercies?  Better than a smack round the face with a wet kipper, though!  :-D

[tonyishuk]

Thanks for taking the time to dispel (sample of one ;-) ) another urban myth.

 

I will wait a while before going down the gaslow route, if only to use up the "free " gas supplied with the motorhome.

 

Rgds