Big Momma Mk II takes to the road !!

[Big Momma]

Well the day finally arrived. After ordering my new van way back in October, I collected my Autotrail Comanche from Chelston motorhomes on Saturday 1st May. This is my 4th van but only my second new one and it is everything we wanted. I am not going to list everything that we put on it but suffice to say that I don't think that there is anything else we could want (until they bring something else out next year that is *-) ).

 

I purchased it from Chelston Motorhomes near Wellington in Somerset and although this is some 104 miles away, they gave me the best PX on the Swift Kontiki. I have to say that the handover of the new van was the most comprehensive I have ever received and even though I knew about a lot of the operating systems the guy doing the handover still went over everything. I was a little nervous as the Comanche is 4ft longer than the Kon Tiki, twin rear axle and 3.0Ltr 6 Speed Comformatic Auto Gearbox, I have not driven an Automatic for over 20 years and things have changed a lot since then. However, it was a good run back home and then we threw enough gear in it for a pre-booked weekend at the Salisbury C&CC Site to try everything out.

 

Unfortunately this is when we discovered several faults. The truma boiler would not work on 230v or gas as it was supposed to (see separate thread), this should have heated up the water as well as providing blown air heating. Fortunately the Air Con system that we had fitted which is also a heater worked brilliantly and therefore we were able to keep warm at night otherwise we would have had to have returned home. Whilst searching for the source of the problem we came across problem number 2, the truma boiler and isolation gas tap is under the island bed which lifts up on a ratchet system. When lowering the bed base the whole base moved around in a floating effect and would not sit right as it should have done. Closer examination revealed that there was a wooden support that should have been firmly fixed to the main frame, it wasn't ! We then started to examine every nook and cranny for other potential problems and the only other thing we found was that a large kitchen cupboard was not fitted correctly, minor problem but irritating.

 

We enjoyed our weekend in the van and other than the above problems it lived up to expectations in the comfort and livability stakes. On the way home we encountered problem number 4 in that both wing mirrors would suddenly, and for no apparant reason, start moving in towards the cab windows, not in a sudden movement as if hit with a strong gust of wind but more like they were motorised. Not a good idea to have no rearview on any vehicle but even moreso when driving a vehicle of this size.

 

Tried to ring Cheslton when we got back home on the Monday afternoon but their phones were malfunctioning, I know that this was the case as they had problems on the Saturday when we were collecting the van so no cause to suspect the conspiracy theory that they knew of the faults and didn't want to speak to me.

 

I sent an Email to Autotrail stating my severe disappointment after all their claims of build quality. They Emailed back stating that if I wanted to I could take the vehicle to their factory at Grimsby where they would investigate the problems and attempt to put them right for me, except for the wing mirors which they said was a FIAT issue *-)

 

In the meantime I had contacted Chelston and arranged to return the vehicle to them today (Friday 7th). Have to say that they were very helpful (So they should be as well I hear you cry), they knew how far I had travelled and got my vehicle straight in to the workshop whilst i went for a wander around their accessory shop. A couple of hours later and 3 of the 4 problems had been resolved. The wing mirrors were faulty and needed replacing and this would involve ordering parts and another 208 mile round trip. However, they did suggest that their was a FIAT Commercial Dealer in Swindon who could do the job under warranty and that this would save me a long journey, alternatively they would have ordered the parts and I would then have had to drive to them again. They apologised for not having found some of the faults before handover and also put 40Ltrs of diesel in to my van to cover the mileage.

 

having returned home I rang the Fiat Commercial dealers and they were extremely freindly and helpful and have ordered 2 new wing mirors which they are fitting for me under warranty next Friday. Now here is a word of caution for anyone else purchasing a new motorhome. I expected my manufacturers vehicle warranty to commence on Saturday 1st May the day I purchased the vehicle and date of initial registration. If I had not had any faults with my wing mirrors I probably would not have discovered that whilst my registration was on the FIAT system database, the commencement of the warranty was stated as 12th Decenber 2009, the date that FIAT supplied the base vehicle to Autotrail 8-) They have stated that when I go to have my wing mirrors replaced that I should take in my vehicle registration document and from that they will amend the commencement date of my manufacturers warranty on the FIAT database to the date of initial registration.

 

This evening after cleaning the van inside (always like to clean it myself then I know it has been done properly) and fitting anti-slip matting to cupboards and drawers i went to reverse the van up my drive and noticed that one of the fromt high level marker lights isn't working. Minor point but surely when you collect a new van these basic things should have all been checked and be working. I said earlier that it was a comprehensive handover, perhaps not as comprehensive as it should have been but in the excitement and all that I just did not think of checking the lights :$

 

All that said and done, although a bit of a poor show from Autotrail, perhaps this was the Friday afternoon build and perhaps Chelston should have conducted a more robust check prior to handover, but the van is beautiful and we are booked to go to Moreton-in-Marsh CC site next weekend where we can try again at testing the onboard facilities, water heater, habitation heating, shower etc.

 

So if you see a big new shiny Autotrail Comanche tootling along the road with a smug looking b*****d at the wheel, it will probably be me so go on give us a wave (not the two fingered one though).

[JohnP]

Regarding the Fiat warranty, I have had the same problem with two motorhomes.

A Renault Master based Knaus. Renault would not move the warranty start date to the registration date so I lost a considerable amount warranty time.

 

However, the warranty on the Ford Transit based Hymer which I now have was redated to the registration date and runs for three years. I had to send a photocopy of the V5 document to Ford to get this change.

 

Enjoy your new MH

[Guest JudgeMental]

same with my Ford. warranty kicked in when chassis delivered to Euramobil...I took delivery 4 months later and had to get the warranty reset to zero.

 

This happens a lot and is not a Fiat issue...there are quite enough of them already *-)

[Brian Kirby]

I think the bit Chelston missed out was the pre-delivery inspection!  Difficult to see how that could have checked and tested functionality of the installations, including heating and water heating, without turning on the gas, and in the process discovering the loose bed, ain't it?  Not uncommon, it seems, but a silly way to impress the customer.  Glad you like it, though!

[lennyhb]

Warranty registration does appear to be a bit hit & miss between manufacturers.

When we collected our Hymer (Belgium Dealer) the dealer asked us to send a copy of the registration document so he could register the Fiat warranty.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

So far as I know, all vehicle warranties, throughout Europe, commence on first registration of the vehicle.

Vehicles are delivered to dealers, with the warranty set to commence the day they leave the factory.  Not surprising, as that is the only date the manufacturer is (at that time) aware of.  It is the job of the dealer selling the vehicle to notify the manufacturer when it is registered.  With cars, this is usually fault free.

The complication with motorhomes is that they leave the factory unfinished to go to a converter who, at some later date, will finish the vehicle as a motorhome, and then deliver it to his dealer.  It seems someone forgets to tell the motorhome dealer it is his job to notify Fiat, or whoever, as well as Autotrail, or whoever, that the vehicle has been registered so that the warranty commencement date can be re-set.  So that's something else Chelston forgot!

I'm not picking on Chelston, I have nothing against them, and on my only dealing with them they were a delight.  However, they do seem to be dropping balls on Eric's Autotrail, and they really should have done better.

On a related matter, our first van was a Burstner, on a Fiat, and the service booklet had been completed and stamped by a Fiat dealership in Kehl, confirming they had completed the pre-delivery inspection on the Ducato.  The present van, a Hobby, has the service booklet completed by a Ford main dealer in Kiel, confirming they had completed the pre-delivery inspection on the Transit. 

As a matter of interest, do Autotrail do likewise?

[Minstrel]

When we collected out Eura mobil from Chelston several years ago, everything was tested as it was shown to us - admittedly we were new to motorhoming, but each motorhome is different and needs demonstrating, I think. OUr only problem was that we couldn't remember all the functions so spent our first weekend away poring over the instruction book!

[Big Momma]

Brian Kirby - 2010-05-08 3:02 PMOn a related matter, our first van was a Burstner, on a Fiat, and the service booklet had been completed and stamped by a Fiat dealership in Kehl, confirming they had completed the pre-delivery inspection on the Ducato.  The present van, a Hobby, has the service booklet completed by a Ford main dealer in Kiel, confirming they had completed the pre-delivery inspection on the Transit. 

As a matter of interest, do Autotrail do likewise?

The service booklet had been stamped but without looking at it again I cannot recall who it was who stamped it (?)

[David Dwight]

Hi Eric,

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. We bought our new Excel last Dec, the warrenty for the base vehicle started the day it was registered which was 1st Dec 12 days before we picked the van up I am not complaining though.

 

Regarding warrenty faults on the conversion we had a problem with the Fridge and the Wabasto heater. The dealer attempted three times to sort the fridge out, Thetford were useless kept saying it was up to the dealer. The dealer coluld not find the fault because the fridge had to be switched off every evening when they shut up shop for the night, it needed running for at least thirty hours for the fault to develope.

 

We went to the Autotrail Factory Rally at Market Raeson where they had Technicions from Autotrail, they took approx 2 seconds to decide thatg wee needed a new fridge. When we visited the Factory on the Saturday we were met by Colin Treacher Production Manager who promptly told us that if we were at the Factory on Monday morning all problems would be sorted. This was what happened new fridge, heater problem sorted also new window in habitation door due to water in the step well.

 

Could'nt fault the service at the Factory.

 

A quote from the Managing Director of Autotrail ( we must always remember that without the Customer we would not have a bussiness) its a shame the dealers do not take heed of this.

 

Enjoy your new toy.

 

David.

[colin]

It seems to me that most dealers skip the Pre Delivery Inspection as the Post Delivery Inspection shows up more faults ;-)

[LordThornber]

Do dealers have a PDI ticksheet, either one generated by themselves or one by the manufacturer of the van they're selling?

 

I'm curious as the bed/heater faults Big Momma informs of should/would have been indentified.

 

I guess the wing mirrors issue is less of a grouse as a dealer presumably would have little need to bat a new a van at motorway speeds for a test.

 

Our last new van way back in '03 was faultless to be fair to supplying dealer Todds, without looking through our documentation I can't remember what system they deployed for PDI, whatever it was though, it worked.

 

Evidencing, the modern catchphrase for "doing your job properly", works well in my opinion. A ticksheet with a PDI inspectors name, date etc all over it would surely reduce the unacceptable level of delivery faults that are all too evident.

 

Of course it doesn't stop a lazy PDI bod from just ticking away at boxes but at least you can throw the book, (or the ticksheet), at him/her when the faults turn up.

 

Martyn

[Brian Kirby]

LordThornber - 2010-05-09 11:35 AM Do dealers have a PDI ticksheet, either one generated by themselves or one by the manufacturer of the van they're selling? ........ Martyn

I guess the inevitable answer is that some do, and some don't!  The real question is whether they should need one at all.  The vans should leave the factory clean, and checked, so all the dealer should have to do is check it is what was ordered, check for delivery damage, and check if anything has stopped working in the meantime delivery.

Our first van came from Calais Caravanes.  It was a new Burstner and, when we arrived to pick it up, there was water in the tank, the gas and mains were connected, and the fridge and water heater were running, so that we could be shown a) that they all worked and b) how to use them.  That was "his" (the bosses) job.  Hers (the bosses wife), which she was just finishing, was cleaning and dusting the entire interior, and polishing fingermarks off the mirrors.  It was spotless, gleaming, and everything worked.  A couple of hours later, having paid the balance (by cheque mind!), we were driven to the tunnel terminal en-route for home.  I crawled all over that van once we got it back, and nothing had been missed, everything had remained working, and continued to do so while we had it.

Our present van came straight from the Hobby factory via Bundesvan, and arrived at our front door having travelled from the factory at Rendsburg, near the Danish border, via Dortmund.  It was a little travel soiled outside (600, mainly wet miles!), but generally spotless inside and, again, everything worked on delivery despite never having been on a Hobby dealer's premises.  I think one minor fault, noticed en route, was fixed by Durrwang (a Hymer dealer) at Dortmund. 

A conscientious manufacturer makes life easy for the dealer, so he can just get on with keeping his customers happy.  A sloppy manufacturer leaves his dealers completing production and doing the quality checks, so inevitably trying to protect their margins by cutting corners, and in the process leaving some of their customers unhappy.  The sloppy manufacturer can't then discipline the dealer over his customer service, because the dealer is doing half the manufacturer's job for free.  Don't ya just love the British way?  Sooooooo superior compared to those dull Germans!  :-D 

Yes, yes: a travesty I know, but that is how reputations are generated.  If we want the reputation, we have to be the best, not just the equal of the best, and certainly never second best.  The only thing that stops us being best, is ourselves.  Silly, and sad!  :-(

[Vernon B]

So very true Brian and so very much the root course of the demise of the British motor industry - oh sorry I forget that was Magie Thatcher's fault of course.

 

V

[Mike88]

BigMomma. The warranty information is on Page 7 of the Fiat Professional Service and Warranty Booklet. This states:

 

 

"Any defect due to faulty materials or workmanship during manufacture which occurs within 2 years of registration will be replaced or repaired free of charge for labour and materials................."

 

Dealers do not appear to be notifying Fiat of the registration dates.

[Brian Kirby]

Thatcher?  No, not really, in my opinion.  She expressed a view, common at the time, that we were not good at making things.  What the Japanese, and to some extent the French and the Germans, have since demonstrated, is that the British can make things as well as, or better than, others - if they are treated reasonably and fairly, properly organised, and backed by adequate investment.  What amazes me, is that no one at the time seemed to realise this.  The main fault with the British motor (and a number of other) industry, primarily, was the pratts who ran it.

Her biggest fault was she listened to them!  But that is increasingly the fault with politicians: they are all bright people, but they (mostly) lack any practical experience of getting things done in the real world.  They can all talk a storm, and have total confidence in what they say, but that confidence is based on never having actually tried doing it.

Just like New Labour and the bankers.  Listen to them, they must be very clever, because they are very rich.

[Vernon B]

But she did invite the Japanese in (Nissan) which was the turning point in proving your point.

[Big Momma]

Brian Kirby - 2010-05-09 7:59 PM

 

But that is increasingly the fault with politicians: they are all bright people,

 

What do politicians and a lighthouse in the desert have in common ?

 

They are both bright but totally bl***y useless :D

[Brian Kirby]

Glad you joined in Eric, I was beginning to feel quite guilty for having strayed so far from your topic!   Sorreeeeeeeeeee!  :-D

[Big Momma]

That is one of the amusing things about this forum, the original question is usually answered most of the time but then with the vast array of personalities the thread topic moves on in who knows what direction :D

[Big Momma]

Just an update to my original post. I have now had all the problems with the new van resolved. Went away this weekend to Moreton-in-Marsh CC site and had another opportunity to try everything out again, pleased to report that all is working perfectly :D

[Porky]

Big Momma - 2010-05-16 5:31 PM

 

Just an update to my original post. I have now had all the problems with the new van resolved. Went away this weekend to Moreton-in-Marsh CC site and had another opportunity to try everything out again, pleased to report that all is working perfectly :D

 

Isn't this just the point. It is the way companies deal with issues which in the end either pleases or upsets people. I had a few problems with my new Autotrail Tracker EKS from Chelston but they have all been dealt with in a prompt and professional manner. In the main the quality of Autotrail I think is very good and our 6 month trip has done nothing to change our minds(lol)

 

Roy Fuller

 

 

[Big Momma]

I think that I will reserve judgement on build quality as my previous van (Swift kontiki) was really superb and after 6 years looked as good as it did on day 1. We have only used the Auto Trail for 2 short weekends so far but will be away for a week in Wales in a fortnights time and although a few more weekenders are booked we are going to tour Scotland for 30 days in Summer so we will see how it stands up to a bit more use.

 

My first van was a SH Auto Trail Cheyenne and this was a lovely van so I am feeling positive. Chelston resolved 3 of the 4 issues although had they conducted the pre-handover inspection correctly perhaps I would not have had to return it in the first place. Bristol Street Commercial resolved the door mirror issue by replacing them under the warranty so this saved me a 200 mile round trip back to Chelston.

 

 

[catinou]

Hi Eric,

 

Glad to hear you have your new motorhome and all is now well. We too are off to Chelston on Tuesday, ready for an early handover on Wednesday morning of our new Aviano. :-D We have visited and drooled - taking 78 photos of all areas so we can drool some more whilst we wait for collection day.

 

I will be doing what I do best on d (delivery) day - dishing out orders and supervising - as I am currently only able to walk a few meters on crutches . My poor husband has spent most of this weekend organising what we will take to transfer and what to leave behind. We had intended spending a couple of days at Chelston to make sure everything is as it should be, but unfortunately we have to hightail back to Southampton for another hospital appointment on Wednesday afternoon. *-)

 

Chelston have been extremely helpful so far (we purchased our last 2 vans from them too) so fingers crossed !! ;-)

 

Have to confess to feeling a little nervous as this one is so different from the Autotrail Dakota we have had for nearly 3 years - always takes a while to get used to I guess - loads of storage inside in the Autotrail but Burstner has a large garage with, hopefully, more useful storage so will just have to think differently. Fixed table, in contrast with the Dakota's larger lounge ....time well tell but still can't wait..... :-D B-)

[Big Momma]

Enjoy your new M'Home, I am sure everything will be fine. It is nice to be able to get away as soon as possible but at least you have the comfort of knowing that there is a warranty should anything need doing. Southampton is a long way so I will keep my fingers crossed that everything goes as it should and hope all goes well for you at the hospital ;-)

[catinou]

Many thanks Eric for your good wishes. At least something to look forward to with the new van. :-D I will be checking as much as I can get to but we have photos ( & plenty of them to show the condition when delivered ) the tracker & alarm will be fitted tomorrow whilst we are there so fingers crossed everything works as it should.

 

Yes, Southampton is a long way from Wellington (102 miles think) but a nice run - hopefully. Our special salesman has always got us the best deal possible (yes, we checked!) so happy - so far - to return for this one....... ;-) :-D B-)