Stinky battery!

[Mel B]

In our mothorme we have 2 leisure batteries, 110 amp (approx 14 months old) and 85 amp (new with motorhome). We've not had a problem until Friday when hubby was charging them before we went away and noticed a bit of a stinky whiff (rotten eggs) which disappeared. On Friday night though the whiff came back but everything worked fine and it went again. On Saturday though the stink came back with a vengence and we checked the voltage which was only showing 12.3v, so off we popped to the hardware store and bought 1lt of distilled water for £1.15 (infuriating as I had several 5lt bottles at home brought back from France which only cost 1.38 euros each!). Anyway, hubby started to top up the 110 amp battery and noticed that it was fair gobbling it like it had been in the desert! It was very warm too. On closer inspection, all of the cells were very low so off again to the hardware store *-) and it fair gobbled that again but was nearly full so we left it at that, no further stinks. When we got home today, hubby put some more water in it and it took nearly another litre! He also put it on charge when he'd done this to see if the stinky problem occurred again, nope, nothing, so we're hoping it was just that the levels were very, very low.

 

We suspect that, despite our asking for the leisure batteries in our then Rimor (which is where it was transferred from to our new van) to be cheked when it went in for a damp check and base vehicle service in February, that it wasn't checked despite us leaving it for a second day to let them do this, hence the very low levels in the battery. As we hadn't used the 'van except for the NEC show and then for one night before we changed vans, the battery hadn't been on charge much and, even then, it was much cooler weather which we assume had helped.

 

We think therefore that the stink may have been due to the levels being low, coupled with it being on charge AND the solar panel sticking in a load of charge too. What do you think?

 

It has been extremely hot today so when we got back early afternoon, before hubby put it back on charge he checked the voltage and it had a reading of 12.7v. During and after charging the stink didn't return and the battery had a reading or 13.7v when he last checked it.

 

Hopefully it hasn't fried permanently otherwise I don't suppose we'd get a reading or 13.7v!!! 8-)

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, It sounds as though you have boiled the battery virtually dry. My worry now would be where has the sulphuric acid vapour condensed out again.

I would be very worried about corrosion showing up very soon, particularly if the battery was under a bunk, and the acid fumes will no doubt attack any fabric (seats etc) and other areas near where the battery was mounted.

 

Also, adding that much water will have diluted the remains of the acid to such an extent that i doubt that the battery will hold any significant charge for any length of time.

 

I would recommend a thorough inspection and consider washing out all round the area thoroughly, and get the battery thoroughly checked out, and probably replaced.

 

tonyg3nwl

[art338]

New battery!

[Brian Kirby]

Would be a good idea to remove it pronto, as leaving it connected won't help the new battery or, possibly, the charger.

[Brambles]

Why only one battery and not the other.?

Is the 110 Ah the same type as the 85Ah

Chances are the battery is not suitable for the solar charging settings you have (maybe set to Gell or sealed which charges to a higher voltage. Were any of the cells not needing nearly as much water as the others (I know you said all the cells needed topping up, but just in case and if one was not needing so much it is probably a shorted cell and would have resulted in other cells being overcharged and boiling.

Usually when a battery gets so low on water (acid), capacity is dramatically reduced and is only a matter of a short time before complete failure.

 

What make and type number/model are your batteries and I can maybe check out the specs, and did your 85Ah need any topping up?

[747]

I agree with Brian. It would be better to do any investigation of the suspect battery away from the van.

 

Check the output of the regulator that controls the solar panel. It could possibly be faulty and supplying too high voltage. They are capable of pushing out around 20 volts if unregulated.

[Mel B]

Bit more info and answers to queries:

 

The 110 amp battery is the new one that was installed in the Rimor in February. When we added the solar panel to it a few months later, we didn't have any problem at all with either the solar panel or the battery. The regulator used is the same one that came with the solar panel (Alden 75w panel).

 

The 110 amp battery is installed in a plastic battery box with lid under the small inward facing seat, and a breather/vent pipe installed to the outside, so although we could smell it, the ‘fumes’ were going outside. This is the only difference between the current and previous installation as previously it was in an external locker without a plastic box.

 

There was no smell at all from the 85 amp battery at any time - unfortunately the only way to check it is to remove the passenger seat (it’s a sealed for life one). Both batteries are standard leisure ones (not gel) and the charger is for standard batteries.

 

On Saturday the battery was quite warm and all of the cells needed to be topped up equally, the battery meter on the display panel was giving a reading of around 60%, but after yesterday’s short charge, it was at 75%. During and after the 90 minutes charge which hubby gave the batteries yesterday there was no smell at all and hasn’t been since (I’ve just been sniffing again!). The battery is currently reading 12.89v so appears to be holding its charge.

 

We have come to the conclusion that the problem was definitely caused because circumstances being ‘just right’ (or wrong!) at the time:

 

1) The battery needed topping up (we don’t believe it had been ‘boiled dry’ initially, just hadn’t been checked when serviced so had lower levels than it should have had).

 

2) The charging on Friday with low water levels exacerbated the problem.

 

3) The sunny weather on Saturday meant that there was a lot of charging from the solar panel whilst the battery was low on water ... so it had an almighty paddy!

 

4) Since Saturday we have again had sunny with a high charge going in from the solar panel and have not had a repeat of the battery drying out or smelling.

 

5) When it was charged on mains yesterday it did not give off any smell etc either.

 

6) Up until now we had not had a problem at all so doubt that the solar panel or regulator are to blame.

 

We will monitor the battery etc and see if it continues to hold its charge, hopefully no lasting damage has been done to it, but only time will tell I suppose.

:-S

[Brian Kirby]

Well, if I've understood you correctly, Mel, you've put nearly three litres of water into that one battery in two days.  That must be near a record! 

Either one, or other, of the batteries has a fault, or has been abused, possibly as a result of a fault in one, or other, of your charging regimes.  Until you know which/what, I still think it would be a wise precaution to take either the 85Ah, or the 110Ah. 

Whatever is happening to the one battery will prevent whatever charger is in circuit reading the other properly, so whichever is the "good" battery will be being treated the same as the "bad" battery.

[smifee]

I thinkthat by having high charge equipment , solar panels & B2B charger, I use a lot of top up water due to gassing off.

 

Just put 2.5 litres in on Sunday. That's 10 litres in 5 years for 4 x 125Ah Elecsols. When they were fitted I was told to check& top up about every 6 months or so. As I always do what I'm told I've kept to that

 

Have never had stinky battery syndrome. They are not vented to the outside and are in the MH 'garage'.

 

I think the extra amount on this last top up is down to the B2B charger over a recent 7 week trip in which I did 5200 miles.

 

Wish I'd known the stuff was that cheap in France I'd have got some there.

 

I've got a little still which I haven't used yet. The instructions say to do a couple of runs with plain water before making the hard stuff. Think I'll keep it for the batteries & check home much leccy I use making it. :->

[Clive]

Perhaps one battery has an internally shorted cell and if this is the case then 13.7 volts from the charger will without doubt cause a 10 volt battery to boil. Even the amps flowing from the other "good" battery into that with a shorted cell will cause it to boil.

 

Disconnect boith batteries. Measure the open circuit terminal voltage of the two batteries seperately and this should give you a clue.

 

But, after checking that all charging means are via a regulator I guess you need a couple of new batteries anyway. And if you want to ensure it never happens again then get a couple of 6 volt traction duty golf buggy batteries and connect them in series.

 

Take care

 

Chive

 

[Brambles]

The key thing here is all the cells had to be topped up equally, Now whilst this may not be a 100% correct deduction, it would indicate a cell was not shorting or failing prematurely compared to others.

 

I suspect the 100Ah battery has just used more water than the 85Ah because it has been overcharged by the solar charger. Maybe it is set for Gel batteries.

The 85Ah appears to be OK and I suspect it is a Calcium battery and the 100Ah is not.

 

If you let me know the make and model numbers I can check.

Whatever you do as mention by others, seperate the batteries and do not leave connected in parallel, and get yourself some new batteries would be my advice.

 

You can continue trying out, testing or using one at a time, but not both together. I suspect if you tested the 100 Ah you will find the capacity is well down.

[fred22]

I always thought that if you connected two leisure batteries together they should both be of the same capacity and preferably the same type otherwise, they won't operate properly, as the batteries try to level themselves out.

Am I wrong?

[Brambles]

fred22 - 2010-05-25 1:53 PM

 

I always thought that if you connected two leisure batteries together they should both be of the same capacity and preferably the same type otherwise, they won't operate properly, as the batteries try to level themselves out.

Am I wrong?

 

Other way around...should be same type and preferably same capacity.

The capacities can be different but how different all depends on charging and usuage conditions.

 

Motorhomes are far from the ideal set up for lead acid batteries, with differemt charging conditions, be it alternator, mains charger or solar and for different periods of time, along with different discharge conditions to varous depths of charge.

[Brian Kirby]

The essence of this that there are two batteries, one a 110Ah first used Feb 2009, transferred to the new van 19 April 2010, the other an 85Ah, which is presumed new, first used 19 April 2010.

You discovered the 110Ah battery nearly dry on 22 May 2010, and added nearly two litres of water to it that day, which filled it, but had to add a further litre on Sunday 23 May.  Question: what caused the loss on one litre of water within 24 hours?

The fluid level in the 85Ah battery has not been checked, despite this unexpected loss from the 110Ah.  Both batteries are linked, being charged by alternator, mains charger, or solar panel.  The fluid level in the 110Ah battery as at 19 April 2010 is unknown.

Sorry to repeat myself but I think isolating the two batteries (from each other and from all chargers) is an urgent priority, and should be done forthwith!  Second most important priority, after isolation, is to try to get some idea of the fluid level in the 85Ah battery and top it up if necessary.

It could be the 110Ah was dry when transferred from the Rimor, but its presence in that state will have affected the charging regime to the 85Ah, which is one reason I think it too should be checked. 

However, since the 110Ah lost another litre over 22/23 May, it seems something may be charging at far too high a rate, and boiling off the fluid, in which case the 85Ah battery must also have been affected and is the other reason I think it should be checked.

If that is a fair summary of the status quo, maybe Clive or Jon can suggest what is the most likely culprit in terms of overcharging, and what the probable consequences for either, or both, batteries.

[Brambles]

Clive, My Impression was only 2 litres was added as that is all Mel had.

Then aquired more water and finished topping up later. So all a bit confusing.

I also recall Mel had some issue a year ago with batteries down at 12 volts, which presuambly one was the present 110Ah. It did not charge very well during a long drive to or from campsite so I suspect was sitting sulphating way back then, and may have lost the water over the last 12 month period or longer and a problem always been masked by other battery providing the power.

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

Interesting noting the price of 1Lt of distilled water £1.15. My old firm used to buy it at £35 per 1000 Lt's (ISB tanks) 9 at a time.

Dave

[teflon2]

Hi Mel I think that you should not have 2 disimilarly rated battery's connected in parallel for charging as the impedance will be out of balance. I could be wrong as my Physics are 1956 era but it would be an idea to ask a auto electrician. All the best John (^)

[Mel B]

To answer some more questions etc:

 

Brambles is correct that we only put in 2 litres of water on Saturday which was enough to cover the plates, with each cell being topped up equally, after which there was no more stinky battery, even when we were driving and it was being charged by the alternator, and when the solar panel was charging the battery too on a very sunny Sunday morning. The other litre of water was added when we got home on Sunday to fully top up the battery; it didn’t use a litre within 24 hours ... if it had I WOULD be VERY VERY worried!!! 8-)

 

The only reason we used 2 different rated batteries was because the 110 amp one was only a year old; but before we did so we asked advice and were told that they should be okay from very knowledgeable sources. :-S

 

The 85 amp did NOT smell at all, hence why we suspect it was not affected, however, hubby is going to take the seat out and see if he can check what precisely it is (make) as there are no obvious markings on the casing that we can see.

 

This morning, with both batteries connected, the control panel read 75%, with the 110 amp disconnected, it still read 75% (ie with just the 85 amp battery connected). Hubby checked the 110amp battery on its own too (ie disconnected) and it is still holding its charge at 12.8 amps.

 

The solar panel is the same one as we had on the Rimor linked to the 110 amp battery.

 

Brambles - well remembered about the low charge of the batteries a year ago after a trip but it wasn’t a fault ... it was because we’d left the light on in the wardrobe!

:D

[catinou]

Hi Mel,

 

I would get the battery replaced asap. On our 1st MH from Autotrail, we noticed a similar smell after being told to keep te battery on charge for 3 days (it had not held it's charge for the 2 weeks we had ownership). On the 2nd day of charging the smell in our drive was horrendous - bad egg smell. When the door was opened the sulphuric acid fumes (which are very poisonous) had ruined the inside of the van - the orange lead under the seat above the battery locker, and which was in a "sealed" plastic bag, had turned dark brown. 8-) All white plastic fittings, blinds wallboards etc were similarly affected.

 

To cut a long story short, the van was returned to the factory via a low loader (too dangerous to drive with the powerful fumes even after venting for 6 days) and had to be taken apart and rebuilt. Needless to say, as it was due to faulty batteries and "iffy" advice to charge for so long (apparently to check if it was the battery or the charger unit causing the problem) we had a full refund and ordered a different vehicle! :-(

[Brambles]

Mel, I have given this a bit more thought, bit of serious thought here.

The amount of acid in a 110Ah battery I would think is about 6.5 litres, so if you were 2 liters below the plates thats the plates about half covered still.

However the concemtration of acid would mean the battery is subject to thermal runnaway when charging which is exactly what you got.

 

Is it recoverable? I think you may be lucky as it was recent, you certainly will have lost some capacity, but if you give the battery a really good charge for a few days it may recover.

 

Test the battery on its own 1st and if all does by chance appear ok the good an well

Check for no bits of lead floating in acid - bright clear acid, no dark brown thick deposits in filler caps - you probably wil have a light grey deposit, no scum on the acid, top of plates do not look distorted and look in good condition, battery case is not swollen and you can press the case ends in gently without touching the plates.

Any of these conditions and battery is on way out.

If battrey is swollen or case ends are touching the plates when you try to press them in then just discard the battery.

 

Now if all seems well, then fully charge te battery, which I suspect you have. You either need to make sure some gassing occurs when charging to mix your topping up water with acid or rock (tip- battery gently from side to sde to mix the acid and top up water. The guide when topping up is not to top up full in one go, top up to just above plates, which you did, recharge and then top up again . So all in all I hope you recover the battery amd in future keep an eye n acid levels. Solar panel charging is notorious for consuming water.

[Brambles]

Cat (oops can't remember rest of spelling for your name), I know it ooks like I am in the opposite camp to recover the battery, but to be honest I suspect one of my conditions for relacing wil be met.

 

I think I should add and agree with others, if there is any doubt whatsover, then batteries should be replaced.

 

The problem wil be matching the 85 Ah battery as it is failry new.

If the brand/type can be identfies then another the same could be fine, but I think to be on the safe side two new matching batteries should be bought. Reason for this is access to inspect. As one under seat is awkward thenhaving two identoical batteries means whatver happens to the one in locker which is easy to check should be mirrored with the one under the seat. If you go for translucent battery cases then it is also easier to see level in one under the seat. If you do not have a swivel seat life is much easier as seat just needs to be slid fully forward to get access to the caps.

 

[Mel B]

We removed the passenger seat this morning - what a blooming pratty job that was!!!!!

8-)

 

When we eventually managed to 'unearth' the Chausson installed leisure battery, we found that it is a Vechline 92ah one, looking it up on the web it appears to be the same as this one (just without the handles).

 

battery

 

Which basically says:

 

Starter battery 92 Ah VECHLINE - Full Start - Battery full liquid automotive quality, also used as auxiliary battery.

PERFORMANCE:

Number plates for higher maximum power - Example: 850 A for a 92 AH battery -

RELIABILITY / SECURITY: a micro-porous separator bag to prevent short circuits (the most common cause of failure).

Maintenance-free battery with the use of hybrid alloys.

Cover vented central to evacuate gas outside.

Grates gravity flow, reducing internal corrosion.

PRACTICE:

Standard dimensions compatible with most vehicles.

Low height for easy installation.

Integrated handle on lid.

Elbow and overflow pipe provided recyclable 95% -

Dimensions: 354 x 175 x 190 mm.

Weight: 23.5 kg

[Brambles]

Mel.

Has the vechline consumed any water? What is the make type of your failed battery?

The battery you have linked to is not the same battery if yours does not have handles. A picture of the top of your Vechline will let me confirm I have identified who manufactured it.

Are you really sure it does not have handles????

[Mel B]

Whatever changes they've made to this ruddy website have made things worse!!!!!

 

>:-(

[Mel B]

I can't remember what the 110amp battery is so will have to get it out of its box again and take a photo - it's still keeping a good charge though so hopefully it is okay!

 

Despite the Vechline being a 'maintenance free' battery we did take the plugs out and no water has been used at all, no smell either, and it looks fine (no bulging etc). It definitely looks like the one in the link but without the handles - it doesn't have handles and has never had them as there's no where for them to 'clip' into - see piccy below: